Turkey threatens legal, diplomatic action over Charlie Hebdo’s caricature of Erdogan

[Theodarzna]

"At least the nazi's were honest about what they wanted" isn't a very strong argument in your favor, and effectively justifies any hostility the west meets by refusing to come to the table at all. If the west wants peace, its going to need to help those in the community who want it. Not sit there with its hands crossed saying they can't be reasoned with and then calling for genocide the second its convenient.

The first step then is to do outreach, and find common ground. Which few if any countries do in europe. If you segregate your populations, you segregate them from the discussion table and create no progress. Black people in the US have had this issue for over 100 years and going since slavery was abolished. What you argue in favor of is no different then systemic discrimination because of religious differences.

"These Muslims are treated like lepers and put in socioeconomic slums with no social mobility and never talked to, why can't they be reasoned with?" and then people wonder why extremism keeps indoctrinating more youth.

I'm not, I am pointing out that the material difference between what you advocate and what you oppose is really just a question of means, not actually ends.

[Thereturn]

Erdogan is a good example of what happens if you let religion take control of your country. The guy has set a modern and flourishing turkey back a few decades. The scary thing is: the majority agrees with him. Not because they dont see that their country went to shit, but because he shares the same religion. And that includes the ones living in your country rather than Turkey.

[luc54]

Maybe you shouldn't guess what a subreddit is based solely on its title lol. Go look.

It was just a joke. I did go check it.

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Because they’ve done lots of punching down doesn’t suddenly make it okay....they punched down at Italy as well in again typical bigoted fashion.

You have failed to explain how making fun of politicians especially despots like him is punching down.

[Themius]

It was just a joke. I did go check it.

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You have failed to explain how making fun of politicians especially despots like him is punching down.

The woman. I am concerned about the depiction of the gleefully happy woman.

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Erdogan is a good example of what happens if you let religion take control of your country. The guy has set a modern and flourishing turkey back a few decades. The scary thing is: the majority agrees with him. Not because they dont see that their country went to shit, but because he shares the same religion. And that includes the ones living in your country rather than Turkey.

Not unlike American. Which is currently fancying the idea of rolling back protections because of their religion.

[Mormolyce]

It was just a joke. I did go check it.

In that case I rescind my comment!

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What I love about Moviebob is he is he says what most on here actually think but in no uncertain terms, He says the quiet parts loud and really lets you see the raw malice where most try to hide it somewhat.

The hell is your problem with moviebob?

[luc54]

The woman. I am concerned about the depiction of the gleefully happy woman.

I'm not sure if they want to make fun of her. It's like having Trump grabbing some one by their pussy and then looking at the woman instead of Trump and what he does. Although they did make fun of red army choir dying so you never know.

[Theodarzna]

The hell is your problem with moviebob?

I think it is more startling that you don't take issue with Moviebob. But then again, maybe it isn't super startling.

[Lothaeryn]

So how is it different than mocking Trump or Queen? Just because Trump fan base gets mad should we stop mocking Trump? Should some people have higher privilege that cannot be mocked? Where is equality in that? If any common people can be mocked, we should be able to have cartoons of everyone. Whether they are Trump, Queen, Jesus, Muhammed, etc.

My reply was in regard to 'comedians' expecting no backlash for what they say, and expect muslims to just take it standing down. Some people somehow get flabbergasted that they get lambasted for their remarks and think that somehow what they said wasn't a douchey thing to say or that they shouldn't face repercussions for it.

And as an example, if a white comedian started saying the n word in his sketches or standup without proper setup or reason, do you think black people would be unreasonable to criticize him for it? Would violent reactions not be expected from the more extremist groups for that kind of performance?

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I'm not, I am pointing out that the material difference between what you advocate and what you oppose is really just a question of means, not actually ends.

And one is a much more peaceful method than wanton bloodshed for crazed lunatics in power wanting the eradication of an entire people; and said method also allows for some ideological advances of both parties due to two different frameworks of thought being observed.

The current state of the middle east is never going to allow for peace as it stands, the framework of the people's mindset has been indoctrinated by would-be totalitarian powers that have suppressed free thought, and balkanized zealotry. Only through more peaceful methods can that cultural divide be broken, else you will have nothing but an eternal war with the middle east.

[Themius]

I'm not sure if they want to make fun of her. It's like having Trump grabbing some one by their pussy and then looking at the woman instead of Trump and what he does. Although they did make fun of red army choir dying so you never know.

If the woman is gleeful what do you think they intend to say???

[Theodarzna]

And one is a much more peaceful method than wanton bloodshed for crazed lunatics in power wanting the eradication of an entire people; and said method also allows for some ideological advances of both parties due to two different frameworks of thought being observed.

The current state of the middle east is never going to allow for peace as it stands, the framework of the people's mindset has been indoctrinated by would-be totalitarian powers that have suppressed free thought, and balkanized zealotry. Only through more peaceful methods can that cultural divide be broken, else you will have nothing but an eternal war with the middle east.

First, those totalitarian powers were/is are the west itself. Anything that could threaten the petro-dollar is never going to fly.

Second, that is still an outside force trying to indoctrinate people to some other belief system. You are still an outsider Roleplaying as the hero on a white horse here to save the benighted masses.

[Hinastorm]

Sigh.

Like, obviously the overly sensitive muslim people are at fault for all the recent drama regarding French cartoons. I'm not disputing that.

But the French keep poking the bear knowing it pisses them off.

Are they just gonna suprised pikachu face after every beheading and threat of retaliation?

If the French think it's worth having these things happen so they can draw their pointless cartoons, hey, it's their choice.

[jonnysensible]

Sigh.

Like, obviously the overly sensitive muslim people are at fault for all the recent drama regarding French cartoons. I'm not disputing that.

But the French keep poking the bear knowing it pisses them off.

Are they just gonna suprised pikachu face after every beheading and threat of retaliation?

gross opinion. normalising it.

While drawing mo is obviously not the pinnacle of free speech, like burning a bible or whatever noone should expect to be beheaded for it.

[Hinastorm]

gross opinion. normalising it.

While drawing mo is obviously not the pinnacle of free speech, like burning a bible or whatever noone should expect to be beheaded for it.

I didn't say otherwise, I in fact pointed out that muslims are overreacting to these cartoons.

My point was, why keep poking the bear to gain essentially nothing (what is drawing a cartoon accomplishing?).

It's like throwing trash into your neighbors lawn, and one time he got super mad and killed your dog. But you keep doing it cause....you enjoy making him mad? Huh.

[Kontinuum]

My point was, why keep poking the bear to gain essentially nothing (what is drawing a cartoon accomplishing?).

You kill the bear or make it go away.

[nonameelf]

I'm pretty sure France does not give a shit what Erdogan thinks considering France has been backing Greek and Cyprus in their conflicts with Turkey over territorial waters.

Erdogan can eat shit. Just another thin skinned dictator who's butthurt he can't dictate in other countries.

[Hinastorm]

You kill the bear or make it go away.

Hard yikes.

[Grimbold21]

"We strongly condemn the publication concerning our President in the French magazine which has no respect for any belief, sacredness and values,"

Someone clearly is unaware that generally we don't discriminate on who is satirized or not over "here".

Unless, of course, you subscribe to the notion that sweeping things under the rug is a healthy thing to do.

[Kuntantee]

Turkey has no jurisdiction over what happens in France. This is mostly for internal consumption. However, it also satisfies anti-Turkish sentiments in Europe therefore something as dumb and irrelevant as this gets attention. Gotta feed that anti-Turkey sentiments.

It's a distraction, however what worries me is the out of touch turks in Europe, generally young single men that are being indoctrinated in movements like "Gray Wolves".
What promotes all sort of outdated thinking and values with a heavy nationalist undertone, it is the enemy of progression, modernization and critical thinking. Luckily it's only a minority.

I agree that Turks in Europe are extremely politicized and polarized, thanks to Erdogan. However, everything people do not like these days is dismissed as "heavy nationalism". There are certain policies of Turkey that will not change even if an atheist was in charge. The way Macron handled post-murder would be criticized by Turkey regardless of the political alignment.

Furthermore, Turkey did not do damage to Europe in any shape or form yet gets all the shit. The hate Turkey gets in Europe is unjustified.

[Mormolyce]

Isnt that the guy who is a meme at the moment for treating his parasocial relationships as tangible and creeping a lot of people out?

I'm not sure what you're referring to? I haven't watched moviebob in quite a while, what with there not being movies...

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I think it is more startling that you don't take issue with Moviebob. But then again, maybe it isn't super startling.

Is there something I should know about moviebob?

*EDIT*

Okay so I did some googling, you guys appear to be referencing some Twitter drama between him and Lindsay Ellis?

I never pay attention to Twitter drama. I am confident I can find better ways to waste my time.

[Kotuthan]

He should hold his tongue along with all his Turkish supporters who live in the EU.