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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    Attacking 50% faster is more fun than doing boring 3k damage on target. You cant define fun for everyone.



    But SnD is fun.
    actually you can

    in order for rotational skills to be fun first of all they must server some purpose, either by being powerful themselves (like Chaos Bolt) or by interacting with other abilities (like elemental's shamans Flame Shock), or by building towards other abilities (like all combo builders) or just by having a natural and fitting place in a rotation (like let's say Corruption for affl locks), note that many of the better designed skills fill multiple of those criteria:

    for example Conflagrate is a reasonably strong instant which feels satisfying to cast, while it also builds Soul Shards for other skill to use and at the same time it interacts with other skills (by making Incinerate and Chaos Bolt cast faster)

    SnD does not fulfill any of these criteria: it's pretty underwhelming in overall impact, it doesn't really interact with other skills, nor does it build towards them like combo builders do

    it's just an boring buff you have to keep up, the equivalent for a destro lock would be if corruption damage got buffed just enough so you now have to keep it up: it would be a boring low damage dot that has no place in the rotation at all, just someone messed up and we now have increased ramp up time without gaining anything really...

    will some weirdos say they like it? sure you can find weirdos who like everything on the internet... but they don't matter by any metric, blizzard essentially fell into the trap of adding the wrong parts of classic with SnD

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    actually you can

    SnD does not fulfill any of these criteria: it's pretty underwhelming in overall impact, it doesn't really interact with other skills, nor does it build towards them like combo builders do
    SnD makes you proc more poisons, interacts greatly with trinkets like Nightblooming Frond it also causes more procs on potion effects such as Potion of Phantom Fire. There surely are many more benefits but those are that comes to mind at this instant.
    It's also fun to attack 50% faster.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire
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    Slice and dice has good use cases. Just because you dont see them doesnt mean its bad design.

  4. #24
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by keldarepewpew View Post
    Slice and dice has good use cases. Just because you dont see them doesnt mean its bad design.
    What is this even supposed to mean?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanu View Post
    in order for rotational skills to be fun first of all they must server some purpose, either by being powerful themselves (like Chaos Bolt) or by interacting with other abilities (like elemental's shamans Flame Shock), or by building towards other abilities (like all combo builders) or just by having a natural and fitting place in a rotation (like let's say Corruption for affl locks), note that many of the better designed skills fill multiple of those criteria:


    SnD does not fulfill any of these criteria: it's pretty underwhelming in overall impact, it doesn't really interact with other skills, nor does it build towards them like combo builders do
    white damage is a decent chunk of your damage. sounds like increasing that by 50% is pretty powerful. white damage applies poison. 50% faster attacks means 50% more poison procs from white attacks, does it not?

    sounds like, by your definition (which isnt the definition of fun for everyone, even though you seem to be saying that your opinion is fact) that snd is in fact, fun. i guess youre pretty happy about its return! im glad for you.

  6. #26
    People act like that whoever wants to have SnD removed just wants to spam SS and then Eviscerate, but theres a difference between not wanting boring abilities and not wanting a lot of abilities. If they replaced SnD with something that was actually thought provoking I think no one would care. Theres no skill or depth to SnD and it is not fun to use so might as well replace it with something itneresting.

    This thread is wack because its full of people who say they like SnD just to be contrarian.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    People act like that whoever wants to have SnD removed just wants to spam SS and then Eviscerate, but theres a difference between not wanting boring abilities and not wanting a lot of abilities. If they replaced SnD with something that was actually thought provoking I think no one would care. Theres no skill or depth to SnD and it is not fun to use so might as well replace it with something itneresting.

    This thread is wack because its full of people who say they like SnD just to be contrarian.
    It surely has more depth and skill than damage dealing finisher. It interacts with way more stuff in the game than damage dealing finisher = more depth.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    Less combo points lost on a boring spec, can this work ?
    SnD is perfectly fine as it is, its essentially a DoT finisher so it does do dmg over its duration instead of instant, its not as if any spec is completely engaging to play anyway but just creating things to be passive makes it even less interesting.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  9. #29
    I think Slice and Dice fits for Outlaw, it's already a barebones spec. But Assassination and Subtlety have enough going on.

    It's more a problem with the 'unpruning' than anything:
    "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should."

  10. #30
    SnD is only pointless on assassination. The other specs attack speed interacts with them better. Blizz added an energy regen component to assassinations SnD, but that's clearly just fighting the symptom created by the root cause that SnD shouldn't exist for Assassination.

    We are way too late in the game to be removing SnD from assassination though. The ability boosts our white dmg to our number one ability, removing it would require buffs across the board, and making it a passive would put assassination into easy mode DPS.

  11. #31
    Yes. Fuck maintenance buffs.
    Corporate wishes everyone a happy new year

  12. #32
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    people yell "you pruned all the abilities, you made the game braindead"

    they add stuff back "thats not the stuff we want back. pressing the button is braindead"

    /shrug. i wouldnt listen to players either if i were blizz.
    Pretty much this. Its like the 'leveling is so slow omg, noooooooo now leveling is too fast' crowd. There's just no pleasing some of these people.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  13. #33
    SnD sucks though, it's just something you have to keep up, and not even interesting like extra ruptures or increased damage garrotes. It's the worst kind of spell because it never changes based on the situation and it's meant to be a permanent buff.

    Like toxic blade is an interesting spell because most rogues use it wrong but people who use it right and at the right time see an increase in DPS. And they obviously tuned rogues around SnD it's not like it was a buff lol. We lost DPS elsewhere to gain it through SnD

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    people yell "you pruned all the abilities, you made the game braindead"

    they add stuff back "thats not the stuff we want back. pressing the button is braindead"

    /shrug. i wouldnt listen to players either if i were blizz.
    people wanted useful abilities back like gouge, not dumb stuff like snd hth

    btw when will we finally have unlimited duration poisons?

  15. #35
    I stand by my position that until someone can justify why Huton is better integrated into NIN on every conceivable level then SnD is to either post legion muti or sub (honestly it's fine for combat, especially given it interacts with RtB) than blizzard is just being lazy and anyone who supports this is simply an AULD GUD NU BAD nostalgia shitposter.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I stand by my position that Until someone can justify why Huton is better integrated into NIN on every conceivable level then SnD is to any of the new rogue specs then blizzard is just being lazy and anyone who supports this is simply an AULD GUD NU BAD nostalgia shitposter.
    Because they are designed by different people in different games?

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    White attacks are boring because they're out of your control.
    Hmmm interesting.

    I guess we need to get rid of procs as well? Just came out of an expansion where well over half your damage(or more lol) was out of your control.

    Ironically SnD puts white damage in your control and personally I would much rather have a maintenance buff over the whackamole random procs, a mindless combo point builder spec or the garbage "setup" abilities that are now prevalent. SnD doesn't feel good? blame the current game design. In classic SnD and flurry are definitely good. Not good in retail? Well that would be because your auto attacks are buried under a mile or horseshit - that you don't control, making something like a "windfury" proc(only from heirloom thrash blade now) feel utterly inconsequential.

    That last part would be the key point, as other posters have pointed out they want to have a consequence to their actions. In classic it is painfully obvious how much better SnD is than instant gratification. In retail it got up to what? 150% attack speed? Still means nothing if it is buried under the aforementioned mile high pile of random proc horseshit so no wonder you want to see dispatch or envenom lol. Speaking if which, don't those ability's hit for a lot less than say heed my call and a bunch of other stuff? Ohhh, satisfaction.

    You guys are complaining about something for sure but I don't think you realise what it is.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    Because they are designed by different people in different games?
    Le ebig witty shitpost

    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    Ironically SnD puts white damage in your control and personally I would much rather have a maintenance buff over the whackamole random procs, a mindless combo point builder spec or the garbage "setup" abilities that are now prevalent. SnD doesn't feel good? blame the current game design. In classic SnD and flurry are definitely good. Not good in retail? Well that would be because your auto attacks are buried under a mile or horseshit - that you don't control, making something like a "windfury" proc(only from heirloom thrash blade now) feel utterly inconsequential..
    AULD GUD NU BAD appeal to nostalgia

    It's like clockwork.
    The fact remains muti and sub in their current iteration (especially muti) were not designed with SnD in mind and just plotting them lazily back in without any thought of how to integrate them into the kit (beyond "White numbers go brrrrr") results in a mechanically uninteresting dps increase, hence the multiple threads of people pointing out how boring and uninteractive (this is the real crux of the issue) it is.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  19. #39
    fUcK sLiCe AnD dIcE, tHaT's JuSt BlIzZaRd UnPrUnInG a UsElEsS aBiLiTy WhEn ThEy CoUlD hAvE bRoUgHt BaCk DiStRaCt

    Nah I don't get it either. There isn't a damn thing wrong with Slice and Dice, and as an Assassination Rogue my rotation feels fantastic. I have WeakAuras set up showing timers on my Garrote, Rupture, and Slice and Dice to help me keep them maintained, and between maintaining those debuffs and SnD, I'm popping CDs, and casting Mutilate+Envenom. "Uh, yeah, that's the rotation..." Fucking exactly that's the rotation. Have you seen what they've done with the other classes? Button lights up, you press button. Rogues are one of the very few classes that has yet to be ruined by Blizzard's homogenization of "oo button shiny, me press now" rotations. And you guys are whining about it? You seriously don't understand how good we have it. Play some alts, you'll find out.

    Slice and Dice is good because it's a maintenance ability that keeps the rotation engaging. It gives you something else to pay attention to so that you're not mindlessly following guardrails. And honestly, it does feel good. So much so that letting it fall off noticeably makes combat feel worse. The increased rate of that stabbing sound gives you that nice little dopamine hit, and more seriously, the faster attack speed increases proc rates of poisons and gear/consumable effects which raises more than just your melee white hits dps. Once we get some more proc based equip effects and consumables, you'll see just how awesome SnD is.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Le ebig witty shitpost
    Ah, the classical witless meme answer. You think you can actually improve SnD by pointing at different things and say "but they do something entirely different better!"

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