If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Traveler Voltin]

linking other games and media is not helping your case, Ielenia.
we are talking about WARCRAFT. so it must be within the warcraft lore.

[KrayZ33]

linking other games and media is not helping your case, Ielenia.
we are talking about WARCRAFT. so it must be within the warcraft lore.

Like.. half the NPC "necromancer" and cultists use daggers in warcraft/wow.

[Unbelievable]

It was designed for Warlocks. As a spellcaster you would never use a cool down that drained your mana.

Armor boost instead of HP.

Let’s cut through the crap...

That is the problem. Do you realize how many Hunter players you would anger by pulling that?

No, instead you’ll force current Hunter players to reroll, increase the glut of melee specs, and do nothing but re-create the Hunter class with caster abilities, which would be a disaster in of itself.

Gee, I wonder why people prefer the Tinker to concepts like that.

Mana Shield
Mage ability
7% of base mana
Instant cast
Absorbs (X + 0.8 * $SPA) damage, draining mana instead. Drains 1 mana per damage absorbed. Lasts 1 min.

You were saying?

Crap? you were saying they were 100%...

I'm not saying they wouldn't use bows, at all. Rexxar is depicted with a bow in Hearthstone and i can imagine headhunters can use bows, like they do in real-life (and the troll's removed racial).

All i'm saying is their abilities wouldn't overlap with those of the ranger, as i've iterated on my Ranger and Hunter class concept posts.

You mean, like how Demonology Warlocks had to reroll?

Let me rephrase it: "Gee, i wonder why people want tinker, alongside other class concepts".

Saying you can play a ranged unholy DK is like saying you can play a ranged Survival Hunter, it "exists" thanks to a few talent choices (and unprunning in survival's case) but it's so unoptimized and unrealized that it's functionally pointless.

One of the main mechanics of Unholy's combat is bursting festering wounds which can only be applied by festering strike a melee ability (and Infected Claws and Pestilence Talents but in the former's case you're losing clawing shadows and in the latter the case is so miniscule so small you can't really use it well in anything outside mass AOE)

Assuming you were using Clawing Shadows, Ebon Fever, Grip of Death, Harbinger of Doom, Pestilence and Army of the Dead and were trying to play 100% ranged the only method you have to apply festering wounds to any target is the 10% chance to targets inside death and decay. Those Ranged abilities are also 30 yds instead of the typical ranges of ranged specs which is 40 yds

Unholy Blight is also an aura ability which i wouldn't really classify as ranged given it's fairly limited and still centered around the caster, it's like saying Outlaw or Feral is a ranged spec because they can get slightly more range on their ability from acrobatic strikes & balance affinity

How come you're an avid advocate for Necromancers yet, you shit on my class concepts? double-standards at its best...

Dark Ranger would have as well. We should take their absence as proof that Blizzard never had any intention of adding such classes in the first place. When you consider their level of overlap with Hunters and Death Knights, it’s rather obvious why Blizzard couldn’t construct such classes without cutting corners and damaging existing classes.

What is this bullshit? the absence of Death Knights before Wrath of the Lich King, Monks before Mists of Pandaria, Demon Hunters before Legion was proof that Blizzard never intended of adding such classes in the first place?

Is the absence of Tinkers and Alchemists proof of Blizzard's intentions of never adding them?

We didn't believe we would get another Burning Legion expansion with a Demon Hunter class after The Burning Crusade. Especially, considering Illidan was dead.

We never imagined being able to play as a Pandaren Monk, in a Pandaren-centered expansion, when we considered them nothing but, an April Fool's Joke.

We had a Naxxramas raid in Vanilla, with a Scourge invasion event and with Kel'thuzad. Yet, they did this again in Wrath of the Lich King (and Shadowlands) and introduced the Death Knight class.

Blizzard has a habit of breaking our expectations, and surprising us. Thinking you know everything about their future course of action is ridiculous.

Nice whataboutism. However, the difference is that as @Swnem stated, Shadowlands is the perfect expansion for a Necromancer and a Dark Ranger class because Shadowlands fits the theme of both classes. There hasn't been an expansion yet that is themed around technology or Goblins and Gnomes.

Not if it's not a class but, rather a spec within a Ranger class.

linking other games and media is not helping your case, Ielenia.
we are talking about WARCRAFT. so it must be within the warcraft lore.

Like how Teriz did, when posting his pictures? -_-



"Necromancers are visually inspired by the undead unit of the same name from Warcraft III. Artist Matthew McKeown started designing the Maldraxxian necromancers by pushing shapes to get a distinct silhouette and incorporating iconic elements from the Warcraft III necromancers, such as crossing DAGGERS, large sleeves, and a giant spell book. These elements show the necromancers' ritualistic nature and keeps them recognizable as necromancers that players know. Since necromancers live alongside liches in the House of Rituals, they wear similar purple-and-gold clothing and have similarly-shaped skulls with long chins resembling Egyptian pharaohs."

[razorpax]

I'd see the draconic form more like a temp morph like a DH's demon form, and would most likely not be a "full dragon" form but a bipedal like several mobs that already exist here & there

rather than a class, the dragon sworn or whatever you want to call this class would be more a "prestige class" appearance for the DH
just like a necromancer can easily be a prestige class for demonist

As much as I’d like to say that tinkers will probably not happen or that a Merlock tamer will not happen I can almost guarantee that prestige classes will not happen and for that I am grateful because nothing is more boring than a total reskin of a class

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Oh look, another thread that is hijacked by the tinker clan.

Yeeeeeppp

Honestly I’m thinking eventually we will either see them run out of steam or get so full of themselves they multiply through mitosis

We’ve already seen a few newcomers try to challenge the leader but he just assimilates and shows his dominance again

[Traveler Voltin]

Mana Shield
Mage ability
7% of base mana
Instant cast
Absorbs (X + 0.8 * $SPA) damage, draining mana instead. Drains 1 mana per damage absorbed. Lasts 1 min.

You were saying?

Crap? you were saying they were 100%...

I'm not saying they wouldn't use bows, at all. Rexxar is depicted with a bow in Hearthstone and i can imagine headhunters can use bows, like they do in real-life (and the troll's removed racial).

All i'm saying is their abilities wouldn't overlap with those of the ranger, as i've iterated on my Ranger and Hunter class concept posts.

You mean, like how Demonology Warlocks had to reroll?

Let me rephrase it: "Gee, i wonder why people want tinker, alongside other class concepts".



How come you're an avid advocate for Necromancers yet, you shit on my class concepts? double-standards at its best...



What is this bullshit? the absence of Death Knights before Wrath of the Lich King, Monks before Mists of Pandaria, Demon Hunters before Legion was proof that Blizzard never intended of adding such classes in the first place?

Is the absence of Tinkers and Alchemists proof of Blizzard's intentions of never adding them?

We didn't believe we would get another Burning Legion expansion with a Demon Hunter class after The Burning Crusade. Especially, considering Illidan was dead.

We never imagined being able to play as a Pandaren Monk, in a Pandaren-centered expansion, when we considered them nothing but, an April's Fools Joke.

We had a Naxxramas raid in Vanilla, with a Scourge invasion event and with Kel'thuzad. Yet, they did this again in Wrath of the Lich King (and Shadowlands) and introduced the Death Knight class.

Blizzard has a habit of breaking our expectations, and surprising us. Thinking you know everything about their future course of action is ridiculous.



Not if it's not a class but, rather a spec within a Ranger class.



Like how Teriz did, when posting his pictures? -_-



"Necromancers are visually inspired by the undead unit of the same name from Warcraft III. Artist Matthew McKeown started designing the Maldraxxian necromancers by pushing shapes to get a distinct silhouette and incorporating iconic elements from the Warcraft III necromancers, such as crossing DAGGERS, large sleeves, and a giant spell book. These elements show the necromancers' ritualistic nature and keeps them recognizable as necromancers that players know. Since necromancers live alongside liches in the House of Rituals, they wear similar purple-and-gold clothing and have similarly-shaped skulls with long chins resembling Egyptian pharaohs."

do they use those daggers in combat or are they for show?

[razorpax]

Didn't you read Ielenia's posts? Necromancers don't use 2H scythes, they just use daggers and staffs.

And yeah, there are staffs that look like Scythes, but Necromancer fans have to get a class that matches their fan concepts 1:1 it seems.....

Hi kettle meat pot did you know you’re both black

[Teriz]

But you wouldn't be doing "just profession items". You'd also be using your tech-based hunter abilities, and letting your robot pet attack too, using their tech-based abilities.

Again, what tech-based Hunter abilities? Also where's the Tinker abilities? The Death Knight contains Necromancer abilities from WC3 and Necromancer abilities in general. Shooting a gun isn't a "tech ability".

One button or four-hundred seventy-one buttons. It doesn't matter. The whole point is about gimping yourself for the sake of making your class fantasy come true, which would exclude you from progression raid and mythic+ groups.

You keep bringing up this fallacy and it keeps being wrong.

One button is a huge difference from 471 buttons, so it does matter. Earlier you said that ranged abilities were only 1/3 of the UH DK's ability set. I disproved that silliness and now you're acting like Festering Strike breaks your entire Necromancer fantasy apart.

People reading this really need to understand how ridiculous your argument is here; You're saying that Blizzard should implement a Necromancer class because Necromancer fans can't deal with entering melee range to press ONE BUTTON.

So you can do it, but you're being entitled. You were the one talking about making sacrifices to make your fantasy come true, didn't you?

Yeah, I was talking about sacrificing optimal DPS. In other words your numbers wouldn't be shattering the DPS charts but you'll be doing Necromancy at range and doing all the things a Necromancer would be expected to do.

Your version of sacrifice is to have a person wanting to play a technology class that pilots mechs instead play as a Hunter with a spear and a bomb filled with animal urine, running around tossing traps and using abilities laced with animal venom. In other words, nothing even close to resembling what they desire.

Demonstrably false, and another example of your dishonesty. I never said that a necromancer cannot wield a two-handed scythe. What I said is that they wouldn't wield polearms and other two-handed weapons except staves.

A Scythe is a pole arm.

Mmhm. And how many other images of necromancers that fit my description did you have to sift through to find that one single image? I'm going to guess a lot.

You would be guessing wrong.

I am serious, because it doesn't. The necromancer concept is not about being in melee striking foes with their weapon. Instead, they rely on their undead minions and their spells.

So let's say you cast Epidemic on a distant target, the target charges you and gets to you before your ghoul pet can peel it, and you, defending yourself slash the mob with festering strike and then use Apocalypse and raise three undead minions that all attack the mob as you walk away from the slaughter.

How is that not a Necromancer?

It's not erroneous. At least, you wouldn't find it erroneous if you were actually trying to have an honest conversation, as it is obvious for anyone reading it that I'm talking about specs focusing on poison magic.

Like Assassination?

• Wildfire Bombs
• Barrage
• Steel Trap
• Trick Shots
• Explosive Shot
• Hi-Explosive Trap
• Bursting Shot
Seven, out of one-hundred and twenty-three class abilities. That's 5.6% of the class. That's plenty enough abilities, considering you think 7% is "more than plenty":

Is this a joke? Almost none of those are tech gadgets, and the majority of those abilities are separated by spec.

Wildfire bombs and Steel Trap is Survival only.

Trick Shots, Explosive Shot, Barrage, and Bursting Shot are Marksmanship only.

Hi Explosive Trap is a PvP talent and can't be used in Dungeons or Raids.

Let's keep in mind that this entire class is based on Night Elf Archers and Rexxar the Hunter. Two examples of real high tech gurus.

A ricocheted shot isn't a tech gadget. Shooting a ton of bullets or arrows at once isn't a tech gadget. A burst of a shot isn't a tech gadget. Steel Traps have existed since ancient times. Explosive traps have existed since before medieval times' etc.

I'll give you Wildfire bomb, and that's it.

When we say "Tech" we mean lasers, robots, missiles, turrets, mechs, etc. Not muskets and animal traps.

We have bombs, grenades, rockets, mechs, mechanical pets, turrets, healing guns, etc. All tinker abilities.

Where? Are you talking about mounts again?

No. Because what they said could easily mean just the class mechanics they had in mind. Just like one can argue the class mechanic for runes from the runemaster made it into the DK class.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, watch how long it takes for a Runemaster class to pop up in WoW when we already have a class using Runes, and a Monk class.

We don't, anymore.

Stop moving the goalposts. We're talking about concepts. Also: none of the WC3 necromancer unit abilities are currently within the death knight class, today.

Raise dead says hello.

As for concepts, you mean the concept of a character who can raise the undead, manipulate the energies of life, spread disease and confusion, reconstruct the dead into a new construct, summon a variety of undead horrors, etc?

Sounds like a Necromancer concept to me.

And a competitive player would not be gimping their class by keeping important abilities out of their rotation.

I never said not to use important abilities in their rotation, I said that ONE melee ability doesn't shatter a Necromancer fantasy.

My concept, and the concept of the majority of necromancer fans across the world, if the depiction of the necromancer concept in the overwhelming majority of the media (books, comics, movies, TV series and games) are anything to go by.

You mean a person in dark armor swinging a scythe and summoning hordes of undead minions?

Sounds like a Death Knight.

Nice try, but I never said that, at all. Scythes are also staves. And you bet if a necromancer class is added, we'll be seeing a lot more scythe-shaped staves. Hell, Blizzard might even make a whole new weapon type, too.

Okay, so if you have a Scythe pole arm why can't you just say it's a stave? What's is the difference really? Again, you're advocating for a new class because a scythe pole arm isn't a scythe stave. Like I said, it's an argument based on ridiculousness, and probably explains why Blizzard didn't bother implementing a Necromancer class.

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Hi kettle meat pot did you know you’re both black

Feel free to show an example of me doing what Ielenia is doing. Thanks.

[Triceron]

do they use those daggers in combat or are they for show?

Should be the same as Warlocks using Daggers.

Would you consider Warlocks using daggers just being for show? Either way, you have your answer.

[Unbelievable]

do they use those daggers in combat or are they for show?

Same can be questioned about Paladin's Librams, Brewmaster's Kegs, Tauren Chieftain's Totems, Rogue's Poison Vials, Smoke Bombs, Throwing Knives and Pistols, Mountain King's Shield, Headhunter's Spear Bag, Sapper's Explosives Container, Blood Mage's & Archmage's Swords, Shaman's Staff or Shield.

Your version of sacrifice is to have a person wanting to play a technology class that pilots mechs instead play as a Hunter with a spear and a bomb filled with animal urine, running around tossing traps and using abilities laced with animal venom. In other words, nothing even close to resembling what they desire.

Let's keep in mind that this entire class is based on Night Elf Archers and Rexxar the Hunter. Two examples of real high tech gurus.

Again, with the pheromone talent....-_-
It's a talent, not baseline ability. Would you say Shrapnel Bomb is a Tech ability?

Shrapnel Bomb: Shrapnel pierces the targets, causing Raptor Strike / Mongoose Bite and Carve / Butchery to apply a bleed for 9 sec that stacks up to 3 times.

Sheep Shrapnel — Players struck are knocked back, suffer Fire damage and addition Fire damage every 2 sec for 10 sec. This effect stacks.

Shrapnel: "fragments of a bomb, shell, or other object thrown out by an explosion."

"Let's keep in mind that the entire Engineering profession is based on Gnome and Goblin Engineering and Tinkering. Two examples of real high tech gurus".

Let's, also, mention how you can/could use a Gun, Steel Trap, Detonate Mine (Hi-Explosive Trap), Frag Launcher (Dragonsfire Grenade) and, somewhat, RIP-Tire (Explosive Shot) like Junkrat, who is an explosive, technology-savvy maniac.

[Traveler Voltin]

Same can be questioned about Paladin's Librams, Brewmaster's Kegs, Tauren Chieftain's Totems, Rogue's Poison Vials, Smoke Bombs, Throwing Knives and Pistols, Mountain King's Shield, Headhunter's Spear Bag, Sapper's Explosives Container, Blood Mage's & Archmage's Swords, Shaman's Staff or Shield.

i dont know what you are getting at there.
but i would consider a dagger used for a ritual different than a dagger used as a weapon for combat.

[Teriz]

Again, with the pheromone talent....-_-
It's a talent, not baseline ability. Would you say Shrapnel Bomb is a Tech ability?

Nope. Shrapnel bombs have been around for almost 1000 years.

"Let's keep in mind that the entire Engineering profession is based on Gnome and Goblin Engineering and Tinkering. Two examples of real high tech gurus".

Let's, also, mention how you can/could use a Gun, Steel Trap, Detonate Mine (Hi-Explosive Trap), Frag Launcher (Dragonsfire Grenade) and, somewhat, RIP-Tire (Explosive Shot) like Junkrat, who is an explosive, technology-savvy maniac.

You can’t use a gun with steel trap. Steel Trap is survival only. You can’t use Explosive shot (Marksmanship) with the Wildfire bomb (Survival) because those are separated by specializations as well. You also cant use hi explosive trap in dungeons and raids because it’s a PvP ability.

[Ielenia]

Again, what tech-based Hunter abilities? Also where's the Tinker abilities? The Death Knight contains Necromancer abilities from WC3 and Necromancer abilities in general. Shooting a gun isn't a "tech ability".

They contain none of the necromancer abilities. 'Raise dead' is just a name, and they don't have unholy frenzy.

You keep bringing up this fallacy and it keeps being wrong.

One button is a huge difference from 471 buttons, so it does matter.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here in so many levels. First, the death knight class does not have "four hundreds and seventy-one buttons". The overwhelming majority of them are passives, and ability upgrade passives. Talents, and even things like "plate specialization". On top of that, even if they did have that many buttons, those would be divided between three specs. And just below you make a clear distinction between specs when I list the tech abilities in the hunter class.

People reading this really need to understand how ridiculous your argument is here; You're saying that Blizzard should implement a Necromancer class because Necromancer fans can't deal with entering melee range to press ONE BUTTON.

Thank you for putting it in bold for me. Anyone reading this would immediately see how dishonest you're being, considering that was never my argument.

Yeah, I was talking about sacrificing optimal DPS.

Even players doing sub-optimal DPS would be laughing at your meager DPS. On a good chain of crits and procs you might do as much damage as the tanks in a single-target fight.

A Scythe is a pole arm.

And necromancers would not we wielding scythe-shaped polearms. They'd be wielding scythe-shaped staves.

You would be guessing wrong.

Nah. I know I'm right. Because I'm using the same Google search engine as you are.

So let's say you cast Epidemic on a distant target, the target charges you and gets to you before your ghoul pet can peel it, and you, defending yourself slash the mob with festering strike and then use Apocalypse and raise three undead minions that all attack the mob as you walk away from the slaughter.

How is that not a Necromancer?

You literally described why it's not a necromancer: because necromancers would not strike with their weapons, nor would they have melee strike abilities. A necromancer would use a spell to fear the character away, bind him in place, or transport himself away. You described a death knight, not a necromancer.

Like Assassination?

Assassination doesn't focus on poison magic just like the Arms spec for the warrior doesn't specialize in bleed magic.

Is this a joke? Almost none of those are tech gadgets, and the majority of those abilities are separated by spec.

Wildfire bombs and Steel Trap is Survival only.

Trick Shots, Explosive Shot, Barrage, and Bursting Shot are Marksmanship only.

So, basically, you have to be marskman or survival to be a tinker. Got it.

Hi Explosive Trap is a PvP talent and can't be used in Dungeons or Raids.

Why does it matter to you that the PvP talents cannot be used in dungeons and raids? You wouldn't be doing any of those, anyways, since no group would be taking you.

Let's keep in mind that this entire class is based on Night Elf Archers and Rexxar the Hunter. Two examples of real high tech gurus.

Neither were the rogue class based even a little bit on pirates when it was created. And yet pirates are a definite inspiration for one of their specs.

When we say "Tech" we mean lasers, robots, missiles, turrets, mechs, etc. Not muskets and animal traps.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to play that card. Especially since people mention "blood healing" they're talking about a healing spec but you always counter with "blood dks heal themselves with blood magic".

Where? Are you talking about mounts again?

I'm talking mechs. All mechs in the game.

Yeah, watch how long it takes for a Runemaster class to pop up in WoW when we already have a class using Runes, and a Monk class.

Yeah, that was never my argument. There's no way one can interpret what I wrote to mean what you wrote there. You're once again displaying how you don't bother reading what people post and are just arguing for arguing's sake.

Raise dead says hello.

It's just a name. Death knights could already raise the dead back in Warcraft 3. Raising the dead is not exclusive to the necromancer.

I never said not to use important abilities in their rotation, I said that ONE melee ability doesn't shatter a Necromancer fantasy.

It does. Because, again, necromancers are not melee characters. Necromancers do not do weapon swing against enemies. Necromancer do not wield two-handed swords, two-handed axes, two-handed maces or polearms.

You mean a person in dark armor swinging a scythe and summoning hordes of undead minions?

Sounds like a Death Knight.

Wrong. Because the person is not wearing heavy armor.

Okay, so if you have a Scythe pole arm why can't you just say it's a stave? What's is the difference really?

Because it's not a staff. Because some don't like scythes. Not all necromancer fans like scythes.

Again, you're advocating for a new class because a scythe pole arm isn't a scythe stave.

No, I'm not. Please stop misrepresenting what I'm writing.

Like I said, it's an argument based on ridiculousness,

The only "ridiculousness" here are your misrepresentations and double-standards.

and probably explains why Blizzard didn't bother implementing a Necromancer class.

The same thing can be said about the tinker class. At least necromancers have the "excuse" of having some overlap with death knights that may have to be worked around.

[Teriz]

They contain none of the necromancer abilities. 'Raise dead' is just a name, and they don't have unholy frenzy.

That's nothing more than obtuse nonsense.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong here in so many levels. First, the death knight class does not have "four hundreds and seventy-one buttons". The overwhelming majority of them are passives, and ability upgrade passives. Talents, and even things like "plate specialization". On top of that, even if they did have that many buttons, those would be divided between three specs. And just below you make a clear distinction between specs when I list the tech abilities in the hunter class.

Where did I say the DK class had 471 buttons? I was responding to your comment that "it doesn't matter if its 1 button or 471 buttons". Again, it's absolute silliness to say that one melee ability is preventing you from living out your Necromancer fantasy in WoW.

Even players doing sub-optimal DPS would be laughing at your meager DPS. On a good chain of crits and procs you might do as much damage as the tanks in a single-target fight.

Again, if you want to participate in competitive group content, by all means incorporate Festering Strike into your rotation. I never said otherwise. You're trying to deflect from the point of this conversation.

And necromancers would not we wielding scythe-shaped polearms. They'd be wielding scythe-shaped staves.

LoL! So we should be advocating for a new Necromancer class in WoW because of instead of using this;



You're "forced" to use this;

Nah. I know I'm right. Because I'm using the same Google search engine as you are.

Uh huh.

You literally described why it's not a necromancer: because necromancers would not strike with their weapons, nor would they have melee strike abilities. A necromancer would use a spell to fear the character away, bind him in place, or transport himself away. You described a death knight, not a necromancer.

Thanks for the head canon. Nowhere outside of your opinion does it say that a Necromancer has to have those qualities.

Also what you're describing sounds like a Warlock, so congratulations on that one.

Assassination doesn't focus on poison magic just like the Arms spec for the warrior doesn't specialize in bleed magic.

Blizzard disagrees;

A deadly master of poisons who dispatches victims with vicious dagger strikes.

So, basically, you have to be marskman or survival to be a tinker. Got it.

If you want to be silly and dishonest, sure.

Why does it matter to you that the PvP talents cannot be used in dungeons and raids? You wouldn't be doing any of those, anyways, since no group would be taking you.

So you admit that this Engineering/Hunter abomination wouldn't be raid worthy? Nice to know.

Interestingly, your Unholy DK would be raiding just fine if you can just get over using a single melee ability in your rotation.

Neither were the rogue class based even a little bit on pirates when it was created. And yet pirates are a definite inspiration for one of their specs.

Yeah, the Hunter class is STILL based on Night Elf archers, Dwarven Riflemen, and Rexxar. It has nothing to do with the Tinker concept.

I'm sorry, but you don't get to play that card. Especially since people mention "blood healing" they're talking about a healing spec but you always counter with "blood dks heal themselves with blood magic".

Let's get back to the point; The Necromancer class' specs would be Blood, Frost, and Unholy, just like the current DK class, case closed.

I'm talking mechs. All mechs in the game.

All the mechs are NPCs. What are you talking about?

Yeah, that was never my argument. There's no way one can interpret what I wrote to mean what you wrote there. You're once again displaying how you don't bother reading what people post and are just arguing for arguing's sake.

You're saying that a Necromancer has a chance of becoming a class because you believe it wasn't fully incorporated into the DK class (actually it was), and you brought up that it could be as simple as what they did with the Runemaster concept and just use it for weapon enchanting and resources. So in other words, you think a Runemaster has as much chance as showing up as a Necromancer, despite both being fully absorbed into the DK class.

It's just a name. Death knights could already raise the dead back in Warcraft 3. Raising the dead is not exclusive to the necromancer.

It's just a name that just happened to be a core Necromancer ability. Also Unholy Frenzy simply turned into Unholy Assault. The DK ultimate ability became Army of the Dead. In the end, it's fairly obvious where the Necromancer concept is currently in WoW; It's firmly within the DK class.

Which is why no new Necromancer class showed up in Shadowlands.

It does. Because, again, necromancers are not melee characters. Necromancers do not do weapon swing against enemies. Necromancer do not wield two-handed swords, two-handed axes, two-handed maces or polearms.

That's nothing but head canon. The type of Necromancer YOU want to play is irrelevant.

Wrong. Because the person is not wearing heavy armor.

So we need a Necromancer class because the DK wears heavy armor?

Because it's not a staff. Because some don't like scythes. Not all necromancer fans like scythes.


No, I'm not [advocating for a Necromancer class because of Staves]. Please stop misrepresenting what I'm writing.

Hilarious.

The same thing can be said about the tinker class. At least necromancers have the "excuse" of having some overlap with death knights that may have to be worked around.

So you think that Blizzard is done creating new classes for WoW?

[Kokolums]

I still would like to see Axe Thrower as a class. I borrow this from Diablo 2. On the surface, Axe Thrower really is no different than a hunter (or an Amazon in D2). The appeal is the gameplay loop. It was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO satisfying to hurl these huge axes at your enemy, the animation which gave it heft, the sound it made whipping the air. I'd maybe add some nice sounds when they crush an opponent. Speed tossing these gigantic axes at something like a maniac was riveting gameplay I swear to gosh.

Altho I suppose Axe Thrower could be a hunter spec.

[Revamp Man]

As much as I’d like to say that tinkers will probably not happen or that a Merlock tamer will not happen I can almost guarantee that prestige classes will not happen and for that I am grateful because nothing is more boring than a total reskin of a class

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Yeeeeeppp

Honestly I’m thinking eventually we will either see them run out of steam or get so full of themselves they multiply through mitosis

We’ve already seen a few newcomers try to challenge the leader but he just assimilates and shows his dominance again

its like a sea lion fighting for the right to mate

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the mage hunters and other dragonlike models from places like BWL could be the dragonsworn form
makes more sense than turning into a full dragon which...can we just agree it wouldnt work because it changes the hitbox and yes even messes with doorways

moving from "it wont effect the door" to "well its temporary so its ok" is also kinda crappy

the polearm swinging guys are a decent model

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Drakonid

though personally im still pulling for the whole "slowly corrupted to a part dragon form" which imo looks cooler than a regular dragon

looks like blizz was/is considering making it a race

"We always looked at those and said, oh that would be a pretty cool player race - it would be cool to play as one of those guys. There's not a lot there as far as, where did they come from and what are they? But they are in the world and it wouldn't be completely inconceivable that a player would end up being able to play that, and we could continue to expand on the depth of that race and that sort of race."[17]

tom chilton

[Ielenia]

That's nothing more than obtuse nonsense.

So facts are "obtuse nonsense" to you? "Raise dead" raises a ghoul, not a skeleton, and "unholy frenzy" no longer exists in the death knight class.

Where did I say the DK class had 471 buttons? I was responding to your comment that "it doesn't matter if its 1 button or 471 buttons". Again, it's absolute silliness to say that one melee ability is preventing you from living out your Necromancer fantasy in WoW.

Because that "one ability" breaks the illusion. Again: necromancers are not melee characters who strike at their enemies with melee attacks using their weapons.

Again, if you want to participate in competitive group content, by all means incorporate Festering Strike into your rotation. I never said otherwise. You're trying to deflect from the point of this conversation.

In other words: if you want to participate in competitive group content, by all means, break your tinker illusion and start using the rest of your hunter abilities.

LoL! So we should be advocating for a new Necromancer class in WoW because of instead of using this;

No. I'm saying we should have a necromancer class so I can play as a necromancer without having to gimp myself playing a different class incredibly sub-optimally.
Because instead of playing at ranged, using my minions to keep my target at bay and using my spells to increase the gap between us when my target gets too close, I'm instead being forced to fight in melee range because that's the class' playstyle.

Uh huh.

Feel free to provide a screenshot of your Google Image search for the word "necromancer" and prove me wrong.

Thanks for the head canon. Nowhere outside of your opinion does it say that a Necromancer has to have those qualities.

It's not head canon. The game proves me right as all the necromancer NPCs in the game do just as I described.

Blizzard disagrees;

Wrong. There is a difference between natural poison (i.e. the one extracted from plants through alchemy) and poison magic which are actual spells.

If you want to be silly and dishonest, sure.

More projection out of you. I'm just using your own arguments and logic. It's rather amusing you call them "silly and dishonest" when you have them aimed back at you.

So you admit that this Engineering/Hunter abomination wouldn't be raid worthy? Nice to know.

As raid-worthy as your "pseudo-necromancer" abomination.

Interestingly, your Unholy DK would be raiding just fine if you can just get over using a single melee ability in your rotation.

No, it wouldn't. You would be laughed off your raid.

Yeah, the Hunter class is STILL based on Night Elf archers, Dwarven Riflemen, and Rexxar. It has nothing to do with the Tinker concept.

But it could be. All the tech stuff is there to show it. Just like you say priests "could be bards" because they have one or two hymn spells.

Let's get back to the point; The Necromancer class' specs would be Blood, Frost, and Unholy, just like the current DK class, case closed.

Stop being dishonest. You're not the gatekeeper OR spokesperson for Blizzard.

All the mechs are NPCs. What are you talking about?

And mounts. And engineering creations.

You're saying that a Necromancer has a chance of becoming a class because you believe it wasn't fully incorporated into the DK class (actually it was), and you brought up that it could be as simple as what they did with the Runemaster concept and just use it for weapon enchanting and resources. So in other words, you think a Runemaster has as much chance as showing up as a Necromancer, despite both being fully absorbed into the DK class.

No, no, no, no! God damn, you really can't get people's arguments together, can you!? I never said anything about the runemaster being possible or viable. And again, Blizzard never said the death knight "absorbed" the necromancer and runemaster.

It's just a name that just happened to be a core Necromancer ability.

Irrelevant. It is just a name because: a) DKs could already raise the dead since WC3, and b) the necromancer ability summons a skeleton, the DK's ability summons a ghoul.

Also Unholy Frenzy simply turned into Unholy Assault.

Yeah, nowhere near the same thing.

The DK ultimate ability became Army of the Dead.

Irrelevant. The WC3 DK's ultimate ability is evidence that the death knight could raise the dead even before WoW.

Which is why no new Necromancer class showed up in Shadowlands.

Wrong. You don't speak for Blizzard, nor can you read minds. You're not privy to information undisclosed to the public.

That's nothing but head canon. The type of Necromancer YOU want to play is irrelevant.

It's not headcanon. It's how the necromancer is portrayed in the Warcraft universe.

So we need a Necromancer class because the DK wears heavy armor?

Stop moving the goalposts. You described someone who is not a necromancer, because a necromancer does not wear heavy plate armor. Necromancers also have a different gameplay than death knights simply for being ranged instead of melee.

This is a problem with arguing with you. We list several reasons, and then you focus on just one reason, and a couple posts down the line you act as if that one reason you focused on is the sole reason why we want necromancers. That is very dishonest of you.

Hilarious.

Quote-mining to take things out of context is hilarious, yes. Except people is laughing at you, not with you.

So you think that Blizzard is done creating new classes for WoW?

Could you please try and have an honest conversation without misrepresenting what people is writing? Please? That is nowhere near what I wrote.

[Teriz]

So facts are "obtuse nonsense" to you? "Raise dead" raises a ghoul, not a skeleton, and "unholy frenzy" no longer exists in the death knight class.

You can raise a skeleton via Glyph.

Unholy Frenzy evolved into Unholy Assault.

You know all of this, which is why your response was obtuse nonsense.

Because that "one ability" breaks the illusion. Again: necromancers are not melee characters who strike at their enemies with melee attacks using their weapons.


In other words: if you want to participate in competitive group content, by all means, break your tinker illusion and start using the rest of your hunter abilities.


No. I'm saying we should have a necromancer class so I can play as a necromancer without having to gimp myself playing a different class incredibly sub-optimally.
Because instead of playing at ranged, using my minions to keep my target at bay and using my spells to increase the gap between us when my target gets too close, I'm instead being forced to fight in melee range because that's the class' playstyle.

1.If one melee ability breaks your Necromancer fantasy, then you don't want a playable Necromancer class in WoW.

2.I never said gimp yourself. If you want to participate in competitive play, get over your fantasy and use that ONE melee attack to keep your DPS numbers up. If you just want to play casual (like the majority of players) you can play at ranged and not suffer any adverse gameplay issues.

Feel free to provide a screenshot of your Google Image search for the word "necromancer" and prove me wrong.

Even better, put up a poll with my Necromancer with a Scythe and yours with a dagger and ask people which one looks more like a Necromancer. You game?

It's not head canon. The game proves me right as all the necromancer NPCs in the game do just as I described.

Don't the vast majority of Necromancer NPCs have like 1-3 abilities?

Wrong. There is a difference between natural poison (i.e. the one extracted from plants through alchemy) and poison magic which are actual spells.

Oh, so it's MAGICAL poison now. Didn't you make a huge stink about Professor Slate teaching Necromancers alchemic poison in Scholomance? Now Necromancers are "magical poison users" now?

As raid-worthy as your "pseudo-necromancer" abomination.


No, it wouldn't. You would be laughed off your raid.

So you're saying that Unholy DKs aren't raid worthy? Last I checked they were the top DPS on meters.

But it could be. All the tech stuff is there to show it. Just like you say priests "could be bards" because they have one or two hymn spells.

You mean "tech stuff" like Steel Traps (1500s AD), Fragmentation bombs (1300s AD), Spears/pole arms (Bronze age), Muskets (1600s AD), Rocket arrows (1100s AD) Explosive traps (1200s AD), etc.

Yeah, that's some advanced tech compared to flying mech suits.....

No, no, no, no! God damn, you really can't get people's arguments together, can you!? I never said anything about the runemaster being possible or viable. And again, Blizzard never said the death knight "absorbed" the necromancer and runemaster.

If you believe Necromancer can be a class, then you also believe that Runemaster can be class, since they both got absorbed by the DK class.

Irrelevant. It is just a name because: a) DKs could already raise the dead since WC3, and b) the necromancer ability summons a skeleton, the DK's ability summons a ghoul.


Yeah, nowhere near the same thing.

See above.

It's not headcanon. It's how the necromancer is portrayed in the Warcraft universe.

You do know that Death Knights are Necromancers right?

Stop moving the goalposts. You described someone who is not a necromancer, because a necromancer does not wear heavy plate armor. Necromancers also have a different gameplay than death knights simply for being ranged instead of melee.

90% of UH's abilities are ranged. Again, should we build an entirely new Necromancer class because Necromancer fans can't step into melee in Mythic+ and be fully ranged in every other aspect of the game?

This is a problem with arguing with you. We list several reasons, and then you focus on just one reason, and a couple posts down the line you act as if that one reason you focused on is the sole reason why we want necromancers. That is very dishonest of you.

Okay, let's go over the "reasons";

1. Your personal head canon about what a Necromancer should be.
2. Your inability to tell pole arm scythe from a stave scythe.
3. Your inability to use one melee ability in your rotation because it breaks your personal Necromancer fantasy.

Did I miss anything?

Quote-mining to take things out of context is hilarious, yes. Except people is laughing at you, not with you.

Except those were back to back quotes from the same post. You stated one thing and then contradicted yourself immediately afterwards.

Could you please try and have an honest conversation without misrepresenting what people is writing? Please? That is nowhere near what I wrote.

You first.

[Swnem]

Dark Ranger would have as well. We should take their absence as proof that Blizzard never had any intention of adding such classes in the first place. When you consider their level of overlap with Hunters and Death Knights, it’s rather obvious why Blizzard couldn’t construct such classes without cutting corners and damaging existing classes.

I think we shouldnt make such leaps to conclusions.
But, first i'd like to say i don't agree it fits Dark ranger. I don't think Dark ranger is a realised class concept. It is an undead elf "class" that uses hunter skills. They are part of the hunter class hall. We saw Sylvanas use some daggers in the cinematic. That was new, but very much in the realm of the rogue.
So, i don't see how Dark ranger even qualifies as a class candidate that would fit both factions and living races.

Necromancer though, is something more clearly defined and the xpac deals very much with death and Liches. So, even though i love my DK i do get an itch for it, just cause i love new classes.

But, as you said, it is fair to conclude the devs didnt feel their inclusion a priority and chose to focus on other aspects. It does not mean they will never happen, in particular cause they would fit a class skin concept for warlock really well. But, it is clear they weren't enough of a priority.

Hopefully we do get something next time around. Even though i admitidly like the idea of a Tinker class, i would be happy with just about anything at this point. New is exciting and fun. It's a different way to experience the game.

[Teriz]

I think we shouldnt make such leaps to conclusions.
But, first i'd like to say i don't agree it fits Dark ranger. I don't think Dark ranger is a realised class concept. It is an undead elf "class" that uses hunter skills. They are part of the hunter class hall. We saw Sylvanas use some daggers in the cinematic. That was new, but very much in the realm of the rogue.
So, i don't see how Dark ranger even qualifies as a class candidate that would fit both factions and living races.

Necromancer though, is something more clearly defined and the xpac deals very much with death and Liches. So, even though i love my DK i do get an itch for it, just cause i love new classes.

But, as you said, it is fair to conclude the devs didnt feel their inclusion a priority and chose to focus on other aspects. It does not mean they will never happen, in particular cause they would fit a class skin concept for warlock really well. But, it is clear they weren't enough of a priority.

Hopefully we do get something next time around. Even though i admitadly like the idea of a Tinker class, i would be happy with just about anything at this point. New is exciting and fun. It's a different way to experience the game.

Yeah, I think something like the Necromancer is very much covered by the DK. I mean look at my discussion above; The desire for a Necromancer essentially breaks down into cosmetic issues and being overly stubborn in one's belief that a Necromancer MUST be 100% ranged. That really isn't a strong argument for a new class. I think Blizzard not bringing in a Necromancer in this kind of expansion backs that up. And yeah, Dark Ranger is one of the most half-baked class concepts around.

I do agree that we need something in the next expansion. People are clearly missing the sense of newness that a new class brings to the table. Grinding through the new zones, and leveling a new character is just easier to do when there's a new class in the mix.

The good news is that we'll know if we're getting a new class or not very soon. I do think the Tinker is the most likely class at this point, since I'm slowly beginning to believe that a "Dragonsworn" concept is going to be reduced to a Covenant-style system.

[Ielenia]

You can raise a skeleton via Glyph.

That's saying that the "glyph of demon hunting" made the warlock a demon hunter.

Unholy Frenzy evolved into Unholy Assault.

Not the same ability. Unholy Frenzy greatly buffs you while draining your own health. The new ability does not do that.

1.If one melee ability breaks your Necromancer fantasy, then you don't want a playable Necromancer class in WoW.

That is a complete non-sequitor. It only means that what the game offers is nowhere near enough for a solid ranged spellcaster illusion fantasy.

2.I never said gimp yourself.

Except you did. Taking the Clawing Shadow talent and Pestilence talent alone is "gimping" yourself as those are sub-optimal talents. Staying at range and therefore stopping yourself from using one of the main unholy DK mechanics, the application and bursting of Festering Wounds is also gimping yourself.

Even better, put up a poll with my Necromancer with a Scythe and yours with a dagger and ask people which one looks more like a Necromancer. You game?

The guy who refuses to create polls of his own to prove his points when told to, demands others to create polls to prove their points. Why am I not surprised at this display of double-standards?

Don't the vast majority of Necromancer NPCs have like 1-3 abilities?

I'm not talking about in-game abilities, Teriz. I'm talking about concepts. And also: the vast majority of death knight NPCs also had only 1-3 abilities before they were made into a playable class.

Oh, so it's MAGICAL poison now. Didn't you make a huge stink about Professor Slate teaching Necromancers alchemic poison in Scholomance? Now Necromancers are "magical poison users" now?

It has always been "magical poison" with me. Just look at my sig! I've always said: poison magic, poison magic, poison magic. Professor Slate and NPCs like Grand Widow Faerlina are proof of concept.

So you're saying that Unholy DKs aren't raid worthy? Last I checked they were the top DPS on meters.

Could you stop with the bullshit dishonesty? I never said unholy DKs aren't raid worthy. I said you'd be laughed out of all the group content you do if you gimp yourself to do incredibly sub-optimal DPS like you would if you were a hunter with engineering using just a mechanical pet and the tech abilities in the class to live out your class fantasy.

If you believe Necromancer can be a class, then you also believe that Runemaster can be class, since they both got absorbed by the DK class.

No, I don't. And I would appreciate you not trying to put words in my proverbial mouth and stick to what I'm saying instead of creating strawmans of my positions.

You do know that Death Knights are Necromancers right?

They A type of necromancer. But they're not the kind of necromancer the necromancer fans want. The game is chock-full with NPCs that match the necromancer description but not the death knight description. Heigan the Unclean, Noth the Plaguebringer, Grand Widow Faerlina, and many others

90% of UH's abilities are ranged.

It doesn't matter. The entire gameplay of the class is about getting into melee and staying in melee.

Again, should we build an entirely new Necromancer class because Necromancer fans can't step into melee in Mythic+ and be fully ranged in every other aspect of the game?

If someone has to intentionally gimp themselves to the point they'd be laughed out of group content just so they could kinda-maybe- sorta-not-really live a class fantasy that is not represented within the game, I think it at least merits discussion.

Okay, let's go over the "reasons";

1. Your personal head canon about what a Necromancer should be.
2. Your inability to tell pole arm scythe from a stave scythe.
3. Your inability to use one melee ability in your rotation because it breaks your personal Necromancer fantasy.

Did I miss anything?

You missed just about everything. I want a necromancer class because the death knight simply does not provide for the fantasy. A necromancer is a robed spellcaster who stays at range, depending on its minions to swarm the opponent to keep him at range while attacking him with spells, and then using other spells to push the enemy away or getting away from it to prevent him from getting too close. The death knight simply does not provide that fantasy.

Except those were back to back quotes from the same post. You stated one thing and then contradicted yourself immediately afterwards.

You're still misrepresenting the quotes. The second line is me denying your claim that I want a necromancer class because "scythe polearms aren't scythe staves".

You first.

I'm not the one constantly misrepresenting what the other is saying, and insisting on the misrepresentation even after being told and shown why it's a misrepresentation.