If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Kithelle]

Im sorry I didn’t know WoW lore stopped progressing after WC3

I mean it’s not like the dragons have been feeding their power into the HoA
It’s not like Wrathion took mortals as hard personal guard
It’s not like he had the idea of making an army to fight the legion then disappeared to go find the dragon isles (island expedition lore)
I don’t think he would empower mortals to be able to fight the demons and other similar entities and the other aspects wouldn’t go along with it
“I won’t attack other class concepts” lasted half a page eh?

Dragons are a race
Dragon knight is a class

And with the return of galakrond and the inevitable creation of the infinite (galakrond remains missing from the map that was data mined and the fact nozdormu wasn’t found during BfA and chromie was the stand in)

Fight dragon fire with dragon fire

It's not like Dragons have been severely weakened and depleted to the point they lost their immortality
It's not like every Dragon that has used and empowered mortals were evil
It's not like other than a select few individuals most Dragons have been keeping to themselves
It's not like we had to help a Dragon flight fight off simple withered

[Revamp Man]

It's not like Dragons have been severely weakened and depleted to the point they lost their immortality
It's not like every Dragon that has used and empowered mortals were evil
It's not like other than a select few individuals most Dragons have been keeping to themselves
It's not like we had to help a Dragon flight fight off simple withered

1. lost immortality but still have the blessings of titans...bfa questline
2. so when the dragons helped us in boss fights they were evil?? the dragons empowering the heart were evil??
3. that kinda helps against the idea of dragons being a class (they are a race anyways but hey cant have classes that go against tinker boys thoughts)
4. its almost as though that flight was a small part of a bigger flight and their leader was weakened while they were over run by large amounts of enemies...again why do ppl act like they havent played this game

[Triceron]

It's not like Dragons have been severely weakened and depleted to the point they lost their immortality
It's not like every Dragon that has used and empowered mortals were evil
It's not like other than a select few individuals most Dragons have been keeping to themselves
It's not like we had to help a Dragon flight fight off simple withered

Dragons are still super important in the story, otherwise Yseras death and rebirth would have been pointless.

Even when 'nerfed', they still hold over powers that mere mortals don't possess, like thr emerald dream connections, life-giving fire and sands of time.

[Revamp Man]

Dragons are still super important in the story, otherwise Yseras death and rebirth would have been pointless.

Even when 'nerfed', they still hold over powers that mere mortals don't possess, like thr emerald dream connections, life-giving fire and sands of time.

no no no you dont get it

time travel isnt super powerful
obviously wrathion is super duper evil which is why he has empowered mortals twice

and the old blue dragon dying due to lack of mana and his clutch being used as batteries by crack addicts means the dragons as a whole are super weak

[Orby]

I hope to god they don't pull the same 2-race class bullshit like they did with Demon Hunter.

Mag'har (Iron Horde), Orcs, Goblins, Blood Elves, Undead, Humans, Dwarves, Dark Irons, Void Elves (literally former Blood Elves), Draenei, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes ALL have backgrounds in machinery. I'd be willing to admit that Mechagnomes, Goblins, and Gnomes would likely be the lore-forefathers of the class, just like Belves and Nelves are for Demon Hunters, but yeah we're so deep into Azeroth lore now that we've all seen these races display some form or another of ingenuity when it comes to machinery.

Oh and also- I'd absolutely love it if the Exo-suit tank spec and Torbjorn ranged DPS spec (assuming there are) had turrets/suits themed after their races art style. The Dwarven exo suit could look like Ulduar tech. The Dark Iron's like Dark Iron Golems, the Mag'har's like Iron Horde, Goblin's like Shredders, etc. None of this would be stuff we haven't already seen exist in azeroth already.

Oh I do think there are more than just gnomes and goblins who can be Tinker in lore, but its more for me personally as I do not currently have a gnome alt and I will only accept Tinker:P

[Unbelievable]

I'm convinced anyone who thinks tinker couldn't be a class just lacks imagination.

I wouldn't say i'm against the Tinker.
I'm against Teriz.

That item has a 30 minute cool down.

And....?

You said it can't be translated into an item. It, definitely, can. Visuals, functionality and all. It just won't be on the scale of a class ability, like you want it to.

The difference being that we have engineers in mech suits as raid bosses. I don’t recall a baker ever being a raid boss in WoW.

Warlocks have a talent where they summon a Fel lord that blocks the path of anyone or anything that crosses it. So that would be incorrect. Alternatively, the factory could simply not block anyone.

You mean this?:

Call Fel Lord PvP Talent
Tank Specs – Row 1 PvP Talent
2 Soul Shards 40 yd range
Instant cast 1.5 min cooldown
Requires Warlock (Demonology)
Requires level 20
Summon a fel lord to guard the location for 15 sec. Any enemy that comes within 6 yards will suffer up to 5% of their maximum health in damage, and players struck will be stunned for 1 sec.

Nothing about blocking.

As I just said, pocket factory doesn't exist in canon anymore. And DKs and necromancers are different because unlike tinker, they both exist separate from each other in the game. Meanwhile, there is literally zero separation between tinker and engineer.

Yet, Dark Rangers are just like Hunters?
You and Teriz are both comedians.
You, guys, dismiss everyone else's class concepts yet, you push for your own Necromancer/Tinker classes.

I argue against tinker because people like Teriz want it to remain restricted to gnomes and goblins. Which makes me prefer that the class just never becomes playable.

There's nothing wrong with limiting it to Gnomes and Goblins. The problem arises when he asks for Vulpera Tinkers, which nothing in lore supports it yet, he dismisses Dwarves which are, literally, Tinkers in lore.

So do you think Blizzard is done bringing classes into WoW?

Same question to you.
You think that Blizzard is gonna add Tinkers next expansion and just stop adding other classes just because you don't want them.

It has nothing to do with the aesthetics. The races themselves look like utter dogshit and their voicelines are grating. I don't care if the look of the abilities would maybe look like goblin stuff. I just don't want to play the two worst races in the game.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes. I really do. And I hope that I'm right. Because they can't even balance the ones that are already in the game.

So, don't play them. Problem solved.
You and Teriz are delusional if you think that Blizzard is never going to add new classes into the game. Or, add the classes you, guys, want and then stop, completely.

This is purely head canon. You have no idea if they retain any knowledge or not. You're applying real world logic to a video game. A video game where we have talking trees and elves who can turn into birds.

A mech that is absurd to gather mats for, can't leave Broken Isles, and can't loot anything. Quite the engineering feat.

But other races simply don't fit the class. Just like other races simply don't fit Demon Hunter except Blood and Night Elves.

Said the guy who gave karate friends, as an example.

That is the gameplay of the mech. Not the lore.

Wrong. Dwarves fit the class. They are Tinkers in lore. Kind of a hypocritic thing to say, for a guy who offers Vulpera as Tinker, with no real reason.

.Also, necromancers and death knights are linked but not the same. Are you going to say that priests and paladins are the same because they both wield the Light?

Are you going to say that Dark Rangers and Hunters are the same because they both use bows and arrows?

Trolls aren't fans of technology. Vulpera seems curious and resourceful enough. Plus who doesn't like little tech fox people?

Let me guess. You're a Ratchet and Clank fan. That's why you want them, right?

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=138151/tinkerin-taji

That's, actually, quite interesting.
I'm gonna up it, by two:
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=20890/siflaed-coldhammer
https://www.wowhead.com/npc=74688/mad-tinker

We, basically, solved the problem of faction balance:
Gnomes - Goblins
Mechagnomes - Vulpera
Dwarves - Forsaken.

Sure, if they were the right size.....

According to who, besides you?

Actually it matters quite a bit. Lore wise there’s no reason for physically strong races to build mechs. Gameplay-wise an Orc mechs would have to be significantly larger than an Orc to have an effect and not look silly. That can cause clipping and visibility issues. Smaller races match the lore, and prevent visibility problems.

Then, they don't need magic either. Yet, they do use it. Your logic is flawed from the base.
We, already, have Orcs in mechs in game. So, everything about silliness and size is irrelevant.

Dark Ranger: Hunters had Black Arrow for years.

Demon Hunters: Warlocks had Metamorphosis for years.

At most I could see it break down as Horde: Goblin, Vulpera, Orc, Maghar
Alliance: Gnome, Mechgnome, Dwarf, Dark Iron.

Nightborne and L Draenei are more of a long shot, but possible.

Personally I’d be surprised if they went beyond Goblins, Gnomes and their allied races.

I definitely think you’re going to see some elements of D.va and Torb within the class.

You forgot forsaken.

I thought you disliked my Torbjorn spec concept.

Hate to break it to you but it has about as much of a chance of happening as the Pirate class does. They're not going to invest literal tens of millions of dollars into building a class that can instead be realized through a spec instead.

Even Demon Hunter was unique enough to stand on its own. Can you imagine any other class being a glaive wielding, fel-fuelled shapeshifter? Definitely not Warlock, as to make an agi-melee-spec for a cloth class would be crazy.

As for Dark Ranger? In a Venn diagram sense it has way too much thematic overlap with MM Hunter and what Death Knights can do. Honestly it's more likely that Unholy get reworked to be a bow-wielding ranged plate spec OR sword-caster that can fight from a distance like SV hunter OR Marksmanship finds itself more dark ranger themed abilities.

Because when the song's been sung there's no way, with conclusive evidence or not, there will ever be a class that can effectively be boiled down to "its a spooky bowman" when there are already 2 "spooky" classes, and 1 "bowman" class.

case closed get on with your day bud learn to let go

What? Blizzard is never going to redesign the Death Knight as a bow-wielding class.

You forget that the Dark Ranger could include the Priestess of the Moon and Sea Witch, as well, which are not spooky.

And you forget that we, already, have 2 holy light wielding classes. So, having another bow class is not a problem. Especially, if they redesign the Hunter to be more of an Axes, Gun and Spear wielding class.

You do know that applying real world logic to fantasy or video games is textbook head canon right?

Yes. Like saying a Tinker's explosives are stronger than Hunter's explosives, based on real-life.

Yes to both.



Blizzard shared it, since we didn't get a DH class until Metamorphosis was completely purged from Warlocks. I'm still shocked there was no Dark Ranger class in Shadowlands. I guess despite the loss of Black Arrow, Hunters still cover it.

Wrong. Otherwise, they wouldn't have added the Demon Hunter.

You argued that black arrow covers it. Now, it is covered without it? stay consistent....

Without the abilities you have no class fantasy. Look at the situation with Bards for example. No one here can agree exactly what the class fantasy would be because they have no abilities to show what that fantasy is.

Actually, there are E.T.C and Lucio gameplay in HotS to rely on.

That's great, but there's really no basis for it in Warcraft. The only concept really that we've seen are Dragons disguising themselves as mortals and influencing the story. You can definitely make a class out of that.

As for Rogues, you got the Stealth and Ambush from Blademasters, Hide and Envenomed Weapon from Rogue/Bandit creeps, and other junk from other heroes.

I only have a laser focus on WC3 and HotS because that has been the source of 100% of WoW's expansion classes. Why would we be laser focused anywhere else?

There's no such class, either. Do you see the hypocrisy in that? You're dismissing his idea, saying it's not based on lore and then, you shove your own idea which, is also not based on lore. The only lore class is the Dragonsworn.

Rogues didn't take Stealth and Ambush from the Blademaster. Ambush wasn't a Blademaster ability, and Stealth isn't called Windwalk. In WC3, it was an invisibility.

The only reason you're focused on WC3 and HotS is because of me. I pointed it out for you.

.The only hard part for Blizzard is figuring out which Dragonflights to base specs on.

It's easy:
Blue and Bronze Dragonflight = Arcane and Time magic DPS spec.
Red and Green dragonflights = Nature and Fire healing spec.
Black Dragonflight = Earth and Fire tanking spec.

And like I said, players want to be Wrathion or Kalecgos, they don't want to be some mortal who runs around and kisses dragon butt for power.

It's like saying Death Knights kiss the ass of the Lich King, Demon Hunters kiss the ass of Illidan and Monks kiss the ass of their Monk trainers.
They are their disciples. They gain their masters' abilities. That's why Arthas says: "I bestow upon you, my chosen knight, my powers". That's why you can turn into an Undead using Lichborne, and into a Demon using Metamorphosis. A Dragonswon would be no different. The Dragonflights will bestow their powers upon us, which would include transforming into a Dragon. Plus, they might add a Dragonman race.

Oh I do think there are more than just gnomes and goblins who can be Tinker in lore, but its more for me personally as I do not currently have a gnome alt and I will only accept Tinker:P

You do know the Gnome racials point towards Arcane Mage, right?

[AzureMage]

I hope to god they don't pull the same 2-race class bullshit like they did with Demon Hunter.

Mag'har (Iron Horde), Orcs, Goblins, Blood Elves, Undead, Humans, Dwarves, Dark Irons, Void Elves (literally former Blood Elves), Draenei, Gnomes, and Mechagnomes ALL have backgrounds in machinery. I'd be willing to admit that Mechagnomes, Goblins, and Gnomes would likely be the lore-forefathers of the class, just like Belves and Nelves are for Demon Hunters, but yeah we're so deep into Azeroth lore now that we've all seen these races display some form or another of ingenuity when it comes to machinery.

Oh and also- I'd absolutely love it if the Exo-suit tank spec and Torbjorn ranged DPS spec (assuming there are) had turrets/suits themed after their races art style. The Dwarven exo suit could look like Ulduar tech. The Dark Iron's like Dark Iron Golems, the Mag'har's like Iron Horde, Goblin's like Shredders, etc. None of this would be stuff we haven't already seen exist in azeroth already.

I genuinely don't see Blizzard pulling a Demon Hunter and limiting a Tinker class (or whatever they'd choose to call it) to only a small number of races.

From a marketing/business standpoint limiting a class to some of the least popular races in the game is a serious gamble because while it could make those races more appealing it could also have the opposite effect and make the class less appealing, for Demon Hunters it worked because Night Elves and Blood Elves are 2nd and 1st in terms of popularity among their respective factions, asking someone to make a night/blood elf demon hunter isn't something most of the playerbase would be object to but asking someone to make a Gnome/Goblin Tinker? yeah i'm sure there are plenty of people who would object, Blizzard just isn't going to design a class to appeal to the absurdly small portion of the fanbase that actually likes Gnomes and Goblins.

From a story/in universe standpoint theres no reason such a class would be so limited, Demon Hunters from a story standpoint come from Illidans outworld forces and only Night elves and Blood elves were shown to be either in training or having become demon hunters from a lore/story standpoint such a limitiation made sense, meanwhile Gnomes and Goblins aren't protective of their technology at all, we've seen them train others in it's use, we've seen Dwarves, Orcs, Draenei, Blood Elves, Nightborne and Humans and more make use of technology either of their own design (Warframes, arcane constructs, blood golems, steam tanks, Dwarven Golems, Harvest Golems) or repurposed/designed from gnome/goblin technology (True/Iron Horde).

At the least i can see such a class being playable by Goblins, Gnomes, Mechagnomes, Orcs, Mag'har, Dwarves and Dark irons, Forsaken if alchemy gets incorperated into the concept, at the most i can see everyone but Night Elves, Trolls, Zandalari, Tauren, Worgen, Highmountain and Pandaren getting it since i don't think a technology class really works with those races respective themes/identity.

There's no such class, either. Do you see the hypocrisy in that? You're dismissing his idea, saying it's not based on lore and then, you shove your own idea which, is also not based on lore. The only lore class is the Dragonsworn.

Rogues didn't take Stealth and Ambush from the Blademaster. Ambush wasn't a Blademaster ability, and Stealth isn't called Windwalk. In WC3, it was an invisibility.

What is the actual important part of the blademaster as a concept? the illusion stuff or the mastery of the blade part?

What is the blademaster as a concept/identity? aesthetics and conceptually they are obviously based on the idea of a kensai/sword saint, from their japanese/samurai aesthetic to their abilities, If we go by the "weapons master/sword-saint" archetype thats covered by arms warrior while warriors don't have windwalk or mirror images i have to ask, what purpose does windwalk serve to the concept? what purpose does mirror images? these are the questions that need to be asked because in WoW a class is 20+ abilties, at least 2 specs and it needs to fit into the dps/tank/healer dynamic. the blademaster in WC3 was a duelist/hero killer, his abilities made sense for this purpose, windwalk let him position himself, mirror images gave him an advantage in 1 one 1, bladestorm gave him spell immunity, critical strike let him out damage other heroes, but in WoW this concept doesn't work we don't have hero killers/duelists we have damage dealers, healers and tanks.

Conceptually the blademaster doesn't work because the sword-saint/weapon master identity already exists within the warrior class and gameplay wise doesn't work because what the Blademaster was in WC3/HoTS is a duelist/assassin/hero killer a concept which doesn't exist in WoW.

Not to mention we literally have Blademasters in orgrimmar who are Warrior Trainers https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blademaster_Ronakada

Same way Shamans absorbed the abilities of Farseers, Shamans, Witch Doctors, Shadow Hunters and Spirit Walkers, Warriors absorbed the abilities of Blademasters, Mountain Kings and Tauren Chieftains, Blademasters might be a unique concept in-universe but gameplay wise they exist within the warrior class, literally every class homogenized WC3 heroes and units like this, we don't need a mountain king class the same way we don't need a chieftan class, the same way we don't need a Farseer class, they got absorbed into a wider class identity.

[Orby]

You do know the Gnome racials point towards Arcane Mage, right?

I aint sacrificing my human mage of 15 years for a gnome. race change or otherwise. As I said Tinker or bust! :P

Also racials have little impact on todays game, maybe in Classic racials meant something but today they are not as required as they were.

[Kolvarg]

I really don't understand how people can spend so much time arguing details about Tinkers and whether they fit or not in the lore, when it's pretty much clear that if Blizzard wants to add Tinkers (or any other class, really), they will make it work somehow.

All it takes is a look at Demon Hunters. Not only they reworked a different class specialization to make room for DH, they also invented a tank spec that pretty much didn't exist in the lore afaik (certainly not well known anyway), and broke the rule of having 3 specializations per class, just for the sake of adding a class they thought would be popular.

If they think people will like a Tinker-like class, they will add it, no matter what they might have to change in Engineering and whatnot (and imho, they don't even have to).

[Unbelievable]

I genuinely don't see Blizzard pulling a Demon Hunter and limiting a Tinker class (or whatever they'd choose to call it) to only a small number of races.

From a marketing/business standpoint limiting a class to some of the least popular races in the game is a serious gamble because while it could make those races more appealing it could also have the opposite effect and make the class less appealing, for Demon Hunters it worked because Night Elves and Blood Elves are 2nd and 1st in terms of popularity among their respective factions, asking someone to make a night/blood elf demon hunter isn't something most of the playerbase would be object to but asking someone to make a Gnome/Goblin Tinker? yeah i'm sure there are plenty of people who would object, Blizzard just isn't going to design a class to appeal to the absurdly small portion of the fanbase that actually likes Gnomes and Goblins.

From a story/in universe standpoint theres no reason such a class would be so limited, Demon Hunters from a story standpoint come from Illidans outworld forces and only Night elves and Blood elves were shown to be either in training or having become demon hunters from a lore/story standpoint such a limitiation made sense, meanwhile Gnomes and Goblins aren't protective of their technology at all, we've seen them train others in it's use, we've seen Dwarves, Orcs, Draenei, Blood Elves, Nightborne and Humans and more make use of technology either of their own design (Warframes, arcane constructs, blood golems, steam tanks, Dwarven Golems, Harvest Golems) or repurposed/designed from gnome/goblin technology (True/Iron Horde).

At the least i can see such a class being playable by Goblins, Gnomes, Mechagnomes, Orcs, Mag'har, Dwarves and Dark irons, Forsaken if alchemy gets incorperated into the concept, at the most i can see everyone but Night Elves, Trolls, Zandalari, Tauren, Worgen, Highmountain and Pandaren getting it since i don't think a technology class really works with those races respective themes/identity.



What is the actual important part of the blademaster as a concept? the illusion stuff or the mastery of the blade part?

What is the blademaster as a concept/identity? aesthetics and conceptually they are obviously based on the idea of a kensai/sword saint, from their japanese/samurai aesthetic to their abilities, If we go by the "weapons master/sword-saint" archetype thats covered by arms warrior while warriors don't have windwalk or mirror images i have to ask, what purpose does windwalk serve to the concept? what purpose does mirror images? these are the questions that need to be asked because in WoW a class is 20+ abilties, at least 2 specs and it needs to fit into the dps/tank/healer dynamic. the blademaster in WC3 was a duelist/hero killer, his abilities made sense for this purpose, windwalk let him position himself, mirror images gave him an advantage in 1 one 1, bladestorm gave him spell immunity, critical strike let him out damage other heroes, but in WoW this concept doesn't work we don't have hero killers/duelists we have damage dealers, healers and tanks.

Conceptually the blademaster doesn't work because the sword-saint/weapon master identity already exists within the warrior class and gameplay wise doesn't work because what the Blademaster was in WC3/HoTS is a duelist/assassin/hero killer a concept which doesn't exist in WoW.

Not to mention we literally have Blademasters in orgrimmar who are Warrior Trainers https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blademaster_Ronakada

Same way Shamans absorbed the abilities of Farseers, Shamans, Witch Doctors, Shadow Hunters and Spirit Walkers, Warriors absorbed the abilities of Blademasters, Mountain Kings and Tauren Chieftains, Blademasters might be a unique concept in-universe but gameplay wise they exist within the warrior class

I don't agree about no Worgen. Steampunk fantasy is, often, associated with 19th century England.

What's the point of a Blademaster? really? That of the Samurai which, the Warrior doesn't cover. The Warrior isn't an agile, fast-paced swordsman that uses illusion, stealth and quick strikes in combat. The Warrior is a heavyweight, rage and brute strength kind of a fighter.
I can ask you the same thing about Monks. What was the point? They only had the Brewmaster to rely upon back then. No Mistweaver, nor Windwalker. Yet, they managed to come up with these and fulfill the roles you want them to (even though there are pure DPS classes in WoW). *facepalm* *sigh*
A Blademaster is, clearly a DPS class/spec which, fits into WoW.
Your nonsensical ramblings about the differences of a duelist/assassin/killer hero to a DPS role, and the stupidity of asking what's the purpose of a windwalk and mirror image to a Blademaster, shows that your are nothing more than a Teriz 2.0.

Oh, you mean same as how Warlocks absorbed the abilities of the Death Knight and Demon Hunter? How the Rogues and Priests absorbed the abilities of Demon Hunters? yes, that thing.
And where are we now? with playable Death Knights and Demon Hunters.

You sound, awfully, like Teriz to not be one of his accounts.

Blademaster Concept


Blademaster abilities from WC3

Wind Walk
Grant you Stealth for up to X seconds or until you attack, use an Ability, or take damage.
While Stealthed, you heal for Y% of your maximum Health per second and Your Movement Speed is increased by 20%. Remaining stationary for at least Z seconds while Stealthed grants Invisible.
you are Unrevealable for the first seconds of Wind Walk.

Mirror Image
Instant 2 min cooldown
Creates 3 copies of you nearby for 40 sec, which cast spells and attack your enemies.

While your images are active damage taken is reduced by 20%, taking direct damage will cause one of your images to dissipate.

Bladestorm
Instant 1 min cooldown
Requires Melee Weapon
Become an unstoppable storm of destructive force, striking up to 8 nearby targets for X Physical damage over 4 sec.

You are immune to movement impairing and loss of control effects, but can use defensive abilities and avoid attacks.

Blademaster abilities from HotS

Image Transmission
Activate to switch places with a target Mirror Image, removing most negative effects from you and the Mirror Image.

Advancing Strikes
Attacks against enemies increase your Movement Speed by 25% for 2 seconds.

Critical Strike
Your next Attack within 8 seconds will be a Critical Strike, dealing 50% increased damage. This also applies to Images, and does not break Wind Walk.
Passive: You and your Images deal a Critical Strike on every 4th Attack.

Illusion Master
Mirror Images can be controlled individually or as a group and their damage is increased by 100%.
Passive: Image Transmission's cooldown is reduced to 8 seconds.

Deflection
When activated, increases parry chance by 100%, reduces the chance ranged attacks will hit you by 100% and grants a 100% chance to deflect spells. Lasts 10 sec.

Burning Blade
Inflicts X Fire damage to enemies within 2 yards and creates a Blaze at the location.

Phantom Pain
Instant 3 min cooldown
Falling below 25% health instantly restores health. You then take damage over 10 sec. This effect can only occur once every 3 min.

Harsh Winds
Instant
Harsh winds buffet the enemy, dealing Physical damage, preventing spellcasting, and slowing movement speed by 85%.

Genji's abilities from Overwatch


Agility
Activate to jump to target area.
Passive: you are able to double-jump.

Shuriken
Sprays shurikens at up to 8 targets within 10 yards, dealing Physical damage.

Swift Strike
dart forward, slashing with your blade. If you eliminate a target, you can instantly use this ability again.

Dragonblade
You brandish your blade. for a brief period of time you can try to 'excute' any targets within your reach (meaning, you don't need to wait for 20% health). Doesn't mean it guarantee kills.

X-Strike
Perform two slashes dealing X damage. The slashes detonate after Y seconds causing an additional Z damage to enemies in their area.

Swift as the Wind
Instant
When you use Swift Strike, you have a chance to be infused with the powers of wind, increasing your movement speed by 30% and attack speed by 70% for 8 sec.

Dragon Claw
2 sec cast
Attacks with a whirlwind of sharpened claws, inflicting Physical damage to all enemies within 12 yards.

Dodge
Instant 1.5 sec cooldown
Dart out of the way of an incoming attack.

Reflect
Reflect direct abilities.

Warrior Concept

Arms

Tauren Chieftain


Tauren Chieftain abilities from WC3

Shockwave
Instant 40 sec cooldown
Requires Warrior
Requires level 21
Sends a wave of force in a frontal cone, causing (8.2% of Attack power) damage and stunning all enemies within 10 yards for 2 sec.

Reincarnation
30 min cooldown
Requires Shaman
Requires level 8
Allows you to resurrect yourself upon death with 20% health and mana. This effect can occur only once every 30 minutes.

Cairne's and Baine's abilities in WoW

Cleave
20 Rage Melee Range
Instant cast 6 sec cooldown
Requires Warrior (Arms)
Requires level 40
Strikes up to 5 enemies in front of you for (70% of Attack power) Physical damage, inflicting Deep Wounds. Cleave will consume your Overpower effect to deal increased damage.

Mortal Strike
30 Rage Melee Range
Instant cast 6 sec cooldown
Requires Warrior (Arms)
Requires level 10
A vicious strike that deals (144% of Attack power) Physical damage and reduces the effectiveness of healing on the target by 50% for 10 sec.

Uppercut
Inflicts normal damage plus X to an enemy, knocking it back.

Tauren Warrior abilities from WC3


Pulverize
Pulverize the target, inflicting X Physical damage at the location.

I aint sacrificing my human mage of 15 years for a gnome. race change or otherwise. As I said Tinker or bust! :P

Also racials have little impact on todays game, maybe in Classic racials meant something but today they are not as required as they were.

I'm not talking about impact. I'm talking about fantasy.

I really don't understand how people can spend so much time arguing details about Tinkers and whether they fit or not in the lore, when it's pretty much clear that if Blizzard wants to add Tinkers (or any other class, really), they will make it work somehow.

All it takes is a look at Demon Hunters. Not only they reworked a different class specialization to make room for DH, they also invented a tank spec that pretty much didn't exist in the lore afaik (certainly not well known anyway), and broke the rule of having 3 specializations per class, just for the sake of adding a class they thought would be popular.

If they think people will like a Tinker-like class, they will add it, no matter what they might have to change in Engineering and whatnot (and imho, they don't even have to).

Exactly.
As with any other class.

[Forteofgray]

I really like the Blademaster idea. I'm a huge fan of japanese history and the samurai. it was my main in FF14. either that or some form of alchemist and I'd be satisfied. I know there are a lot of naysayers that compare Samurai to Arms warrior but it doesn't take much imagination to see the difference between a graceful samurai and a berserk warrior. obviously the samurai would have flashier moves and not just throw his weight around. they could definitely make it work.

Also it'd be great if this conversation could open up and not be dozens of pages of the same handful of people stubbornly arguing about Tinkerer.

[Unbelievable]

I really like the Blademaster idea. I'm a huge fan of japanese history and the samurai. it was my main in FF14. either that or some form of alchemist and I'd be satisfied. I know there are a lot of naysayers that compare Samurai to Arms warrior but it doesn't take much imagination to see the difference between a graceful samurai and a berserk warrior. obviously the samurai would have flashier moves and not just throw his weight around. they could definitely make it work.

Also it'd be great if this conversation could open up and not be dozens of pages of the same handful of people stubbornly arguing about Tinkerer.

Exactly.
Some people here are, clearly, blind.
As for the Alchemist you want, how about that:

Alchemist Concept

Goblin Alchemist


Healing Spray
40 yd range
Channeled (10 sec cast) 30 sec cooldown
Applies a magic spray to the target, healing it for X every 1 sec. for 10 sec.

Chemical Rage
The Alchemist causes himself or, an ally, to enter a chemically induced rage, increasing movement speed by X% and increasing Haste.

Acid Bomb
Hurl a flask of acid at a target. The flask breaks upon impact, splashing a powerful acid on nearby enemies. Decreases armor; deals slightly less damage over time to nearby targets.

Transmute
You attempt to finish off a target.
If the target dies, it transforms into gold which is added to your available gold (only applies to honorable kills). Only usable on enemies with less than 20% health.

Apothecary



Witch Doctor
Yes. I know i mentioned the Witch Doctor, already, in my Shadow Hunter Concept. Either, Combine The Shadow Hunter Concept into the Alchemist or, forget about this one.

[AzureMage]

I don't agree about no Worgen. Steampunk fantasy is, often, associated with 19th century England.

I was somewhat tenative on them, on the one hand they do have a 19th century victorian aesthetic but on the other hand they were highly isolated (which is technically the explaination as to why they can't be monks), and the whole werewolf/nature alignment they have just doesn't jive with the technology thing to me.

What's the point of a Blademaster? really? That of the Samurai which, the Warrior doesn't cover. The Warrior isn't an agile, fast-paced swordsman that uses illusion, stealth and quick strikes in combat. The Warrior is a heavyweight, rage and brute strength kind of a fighter.

Most classes are homogenized concepts "Warrior" class incorperates everything from the barbarian/berserker (fury) concept to the stalwart/knightly defender (protection) to the sword-saint/weapon master concept (arms), Is illusion or stealth what makes the "blademaster" what is is? no it's the mastery of the fucking blade which is a masery of arms aka an arms warrior.

"A battle-hardened master of two-handed weapons, using mobility and overpowering attacks to strike <his/her> opponents down."
"Arms warriors are patient in a fight, waiting to capitalize on moments when an opponent is left exposed."
"Two-handed weapons allow them to deliver devastating, overpowering blows, fully exploiting their enemies’ weaknesses"

Patient mobile warriors, who strike at their opponents weakest points doesn't sound like someone who fights with "rage and brute strength". Also if we're talking agility warriors are pretty fucking mobile, charge, heroic leap, intervene, they are literally one of the most mobile classes in the game, just because they don't tick every box of the WC3 blademaster (because stealth and mirror images wouldn't fit the warrior class) doesn't mean they didn't absorb the blademaster identity.

I can ask you the same thing about Monks. What was the point? They only had the Brewmaster to rely upon back then. No Mistweaver, nor Windwalker. Yet, they managed to come up with these and fulfill the roles you want them to (even though there are pure DPS classes in WoW). *facepalm* *sigh*

Because the Monk class identity (a asian/wuxia style martial artist) is something that didn't exist in WoW, they took the brewmaster, the general idea of pandaren having chinese/east asian inspired culture and homogenized them into the Monk with the brewmaster serving as the Tank (drunkern master concept), Windwalker as DPS (shaolin/eastern martial artist), and Mistweaver as the healer (mysticism, folk medicine) this gives them a unique identity, your blademaster concept is an arms warrior who can stealth.

Your nonsensical ramblings about the differences of a duelist/assassin/killer hero to a DPS role, and the stupidity of asking what's the purpose of a windwalk and mirror image to a Blademaster, shows that your are nothing more than a Teriz 2.0.

DPS is about bringing the enemies health down can be as a caster, mwith ranged weapons, in melee, can about bursting targets down or over time but concepts like "hero killer/assassin" or "duelist" are MOBA/RTS concepts that exist due to the nature of the gameplay in those genres, but these concepts don't exist in a MMO or at least not to the same extent.

Oh, you mean same as how Warlocks absorbed the abilities of the Death Knight and Demon Hunter? How the Rogues and Priests absorbed the abilities of Demon Hunters? yes, that thing.
And where are we now? with playable Death Knights and Demon Hunters.

Are Warlocks shadowy fighters who use demonic magic and weapons in tandem? are warlocks fallen undead heroes who use necromantic powers? stop obsessing over singular abilities that literally do not matter to the overall concept, mana burn doesn't make a Demon Hunter, Evasion doesn't make a Demon Hunter, those were abilities that informed their particular gameplay role (mana burn and evasion let demon hunters duel other heroes better) they didn't make or break the fucking concept.

The Demon Hunter class is still a demon hunter even if it doesn't have mana burn because mana burn is not important to the identity of a demon hunter as a theme/concept what matters is that their abilities go-together with that theme to form a cohesive identity, Demon Hunters are agile warriors who use demonic magic, mobility and melee damage, gameplay should inform theme and vice versa, it's why priests whos theme is light and shadow has holy priests use light to heal, shadow priests to use shadow to damage, and discipline priests use light and shadow to heal and harm, it's themes creating a gameplay concept.

You sound, awfully, like Teriz to not be one of his accounts.

Can you drop the accusations of sockpuppeting? seriously it's annoying, especially coming from an account that was made to avoid a ban.

[Teriz]

All of the above on the basis that Blizzard doesn't base any of their class design on those criteria.

Which was never the argument. The argument was your BS that Pocket Factory was represented by Blingtron in WoW, and that the HotS abilities within the IE teams were designed for the engineering profession.


You caved when you couldn’t come up with a time when professions ever got NPC abilities, you caved when you couldn’t find any examples of NPC abilities with level requirements, and you caved when I brought up the example of an ability that blocks paths, and you caved when I showed that in WC3 pocket factory was about the size of a character.

But anyway....

The Warlock fantsay was never about Metamorphosis.

Never said it was. My point was that as long as Warlocks had metamorphosis, you weren’t getting a DH class, thus showing how important metamorphosis was to the DH concept.

They also had monsoon and raise skeleton :/

Abilities don't mean much if the class fantasy isn't covering Warlock NPCs in War3 which had Necro abilities.

And they had them in WoW as well (Drain Life, Cripple, Curses).

Well that's correlation. They obviously made new ones for the April Fools, and consider that all of the Tinker abilities you are so fond of are also April Fools abilities.

The difference being that the Tinker was actually designed for WC3 which allowed it to be brought into WC3 without issue. The Bard April Fools in WoW was using guitar hero controls, and was patently absurd.

Right. So why discount the Bard any more than Tinkers on the basis of abilities when both concepts are rooted in April Fools and both have characters representing them in HOTS with full list of abilities? ETC and Gazlowe are your Bard and Tinker, both based on April Fools.

See above. Also the ETC is clearly a spoof of the Tauren Chieftain hero and not to be taken seriously. The HotS version of Gazlowe on the other hand wound up in WC3:R, and his abilities wound up in WoW, showing that Blizzard takes that version of Gazlowe as canon.

The only difference is the Bard does not have a rooted concept in WC3 whereas the Tinker does, simple as that.

And the Tinker has over a dozen abilities that inform us of its general design, and the Bard has none.

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Can you drop the accusations of sockpuppeting? seriously it's annoying, especially coming from an account that was made to avoid a ban.

It is utterly ridiculous that he wasn’t banned for that. He didn’t even make it a secret that he made an alt account.

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And....?

You said it can't be translated into an item. It, definitely, can. Visuals, functionality and all. It just won't be on the scale of a class ability, like you want it to.

If it gets a 30 minute cool down for pooping out ONE bomb, imagine how long the cool down would be for multiple bombs.

Also pooping out a bomb is not the same as tossing a device that instantly creates a miniature factory that pump out robots to fight for you.

[Ielenia]

Do you even play WoW? Have you heard of Outlaw?

Do you even play WoW? Have you ever heard of Survival and Demonology? Outlaw wasn't originally a "pirate" spec, and could be made to return to its previous theme.

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Yes to both.

This is demonstrably false. A blatant lie. If Metamorphosis in the warlock class and Black Arrow in the hunter class ever satisfy the need for demon hunters and dark rangers, respectively, why were DHs a highly requested class all through Wrath to WoD? Why are dark rangers still being requested as a class?

[Teriz]

This is demonstrably false. A blatant lie. If Metamorphosis in the warlock class and Black Arrow in the hunter class ever satisfy the need for demon hunters and dark rangers, respectively, why were DHs a highly requested class all through Wrath to WoD? Why are dark rangers still being requested as a class?

Because people will ask for stuff whether if it’s in the game or not. Like Necromancer fans who are perfectly willing to destroy the DK and Warlick classes to shoehorn what would amount to either a ranged DK or a Warlock with undead minions instead of demonic minions.

Likewise, Dark Ranger fans are willing to copy paste the Hunter class as long as they get to cosplay as Sylvanas and shoot shadow arrows instead of nature arrows.

Except this is what you said before:

Gatekeeping like you somehow work for Blizzard is not "staying out of it".

Where’s the gate keeping? I support a dragon-based class, just not a generic boring one.

[Ielenia]

I'm just trying to keep this discussion focused.

Except this is what you said before:

Yep, feel free to talk about other class concepts. I’ll happily stay out of it.

Gatekeeping like you somehow work for Blizzard is not "staying out of it".

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Because people will ask for stuff whether if it’s in the game or not.

Like a certain tinker fan who wants to ask for stuff that's in the game already, right?

Like Necromancer fans who are perfectly willing to destroy the DK and Warlick classes

There is no such thing. This is just you creating a blatantly horrible strawman of other people's positions.

Likewise, Dark Ranger fans are willing to copy paste the Hunter class

There is no such thing. This is just you creating a blatantly horrible strawman of other people's positions.

[Teriz]

Like a certain tinker fan who wants to ask for stuff that's in the game already, right?

I’m asking for a class that allows me to tank/DPS/Heal a dungeon/raid while inside a mech. How can I do that in the game currently?

There is no such thing. This is just you creating a blatantly horrible strawman of other people's positions.

If you advocate for a Necromancer or DR you advocate for the destruction of existing classes.

[Ielenia]

Where’s the gate keeping?

You do not work for Blizzard, nor are you the moderator in this thread. You claim you're "trying to keep the conversation focused", but you're actually gatekeeping because you're trying to prevent people from discussing their ideas.

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I’m asking for a class that allows me to tank/DPS/Heal a dungeon/raid while inside a mech. How can I do that in the game currently?

And necromancer fans are asking for a class that allows us to heal their allies and summon undead minions while wielding a staff and wearing robes. How can I do that in the game, currently? Hint: you can't.

If you advocate for a Necromancer or DR you advocate for the destruction of existing classes.

No. That is demonstrably false. This is you being blatantly dishonest and completely misrepresenting what other people is saying.

[Orby]

I'm not talking about impact. I'm talking about fantasy.
.

Then if you're talking about fantasy (which was what I was originally talking about before you brought up racials) gnomes are well known Tinkers above all else, over being a mage. It's embedded in gnomish lore. They have a place called Tinker Town where they Tinker. Gnomes 'Love to Tinker' quoted from a gnome. Their whole race is built on Tinkering, their leader title is HIGH TINKER!

Yes gnomes do also do magic, but when I think of gnomes in terms of WoW's fantasy, I think of Tinkers because since Warcraft 2 Tides of Darkness blizzard have made that fact clear.