If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

Then Blizzard can create a new class defining ability or hook to cover the gap that you personally regard exists.


If you don't want to be accused of lying, then stop lying. It's that simple. Admit that you have no intention of reaching common ground

I’ll be more than happy to reach common ground when you can put up a distinct Dark Ranger ability beyond a generic Shadow AoE ability.

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You must've been confused since I never used WoWWiki as evidence.

See post # 5725.

[TheRevenantHero]

Again, this denotes bad faith from you, because many, if not all player abilities in the game can be described as "X ability, but with an added effect". And as it was pointed out to you already by other posters, we don't need unique abilities currently within the game to decide if a concept is viable or not. We just need the concept itself to be considered viable. Abilities are meaningless, considering 90+% of a class' abilities are created from scratch the moment that Blizzard starts designing the player class.


So was the metamorphosis ability. It stayed with the warlock class for just as long as the hunter's black arrow, if not more so. And worse: it was a much closer incarnation to the WC3 ability than the hunter's ability was, too. And yet... did it matter when Blizzard decided to implement the demon hunter class?


It works just like the metamorphosis ability: it gives extra stats to the player, and changes certain abilities to give them new power.


The point stands. Why are you wasting our time discussing dark rangers if you don't even want to entertain the possibility of the class being possible? Why aren't you instead saving us both some time and just discuss the ones you want to discuss?


In your opinion.

By refusing to entertain the possibility of the class being possible, you are arguing in bad faith.

You're not the arbiter who decides what should be discussed and was shouldn't. You're not even the OP.

Again, in your opinion.

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You must've been confused since I never used WoWWiki as evidence.

I'd address everything you said but since you're deadset on using the term "bad faith argument" wrong over and over, I'm not going to bother. All I will say is that just because I'm not willing to humor ONE (bad) class idea doesn't mean I'm arguing in bad faith. I don't need to agree with everything you say in order to not be discussing things in bad faith. I'm willing to talk about legitimate concepts that could made into a full-fledge class. Dark ranger isn't one of those concepts. Especially since you are insisting on twisting things to fit your narrative even if it's an inaccurate comparison.

[Ielenia]

I'd address everything you said but since you're deadset on using the term "bad faith argument" wrong over and over, I'm not going to bother.

I'm not using it wrong.

All I will say is that just because I'm not willing to humor ONE (bad) class idea doesn't mean I'm arguing in bad faith.

True, that is not bad faith. But to engage in argumentation with the intention to shut down the discussion-- since you admitted that you won't even consider the possibility of the class being possible-- is to argue in bad faith.

I don't need to agree with everything you say in order to not be discussing things in bad faith.

But you are disagreeing with everything, considering you disagree with the core premise of this particular side of the discussion: the possibility of dark rangers become a playable class.

I'm willing to talk about legitimate concepts that could made into a full-fledge class.

Then go discuss those and stop trying to shut down the dark ranger conversation just because you don't like the concept because it offends you, or something.

Dark ranger isn't one of those concepts.

In your opinion.

Especially since you are insisting on twisting things to fit your narrative even if it's an inaccurate comparison.

This is hilarious projection considering you literally did that exact same thing when you attempted to liken dark ranger abilities that do not exist in the hunter class to force them to liken to certain abilities in the class.

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See post # 5725.

Mmm... no. No WoWwiki used. I used WoWpedia. It's different. And still, what was your point?

[Teriz]

Mmm... no. No WoWwiki used. I used WoWpedia. It's different. And still, what was your point?

The point is that Mind Control and Charm are two different abilities, yet belong to the same family of abilities.

In any case, I think this discussion has gone far enough. You guys can have the last word on the Dark Ranger concept.

[TheRevenantHero]

I'm not using it wrong.


True, that is not bad faith. But to engage in argumentation with the intention to shut down the discussion-- since you admitted that you won't even consider the possibility of the class being possible-- is to argue in bad faith.


But you are disagreeing with everything, considering you disagree with the core premise of this particular side of the discussion: the possibility of dark rangers become a playable class.


Then go discuss those and stop trying to shut down the dark ranger conversation just because you don't like the concept because it offends you, or something.


In your opinion.


This is hilarious projection considering you literally did that exact same thing when you attempted to liken dark ranger abilities that do not exist in the hunter class to force them to liken to certain abilities in the class.

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Mmm... no. No WoWwiki used. I used WoWpedia. It's different. And still, what was your point?

That's not what bad faith is. I say again, if you're not going to properly use the term, then you shouldn't sling allegations. I'm wanting things to move past dark ranger because it's a wasted topic. It's not going to happen as a class and the concept literally just sounds like a hunter spec. If this was a thread about new future specs, that'd be fine. But it isn't.

[Triceron]

That's not what bad faith is. I say again, if you're not going to properly use the term, then you shouldn't sling allegations. I'm wanting things to move past dark ranger because it's a wasted topic. It's not going to happen as a class and the concept literally just sounds like a hunter spec. If this was a thread about new future specs, that'd be fine. But it isn't.

You know you can just, not talk about Dark Rangers and let other people talk about it without knterjecting yourself.

The only reason its stuck kn this topic is because you're still choosing to argue against it. As soon as you stopped arguing with me, the topic stopped. So stop arguing with Ielenia and it will stop too.

And word of advice, you can't control people talking about Dark Rangers. Just learn to deal with it.

[Teriz]

In case anyone is interested in learning more about Charm effects in WoW;

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Charm

[Ielenia]

The point is that Mind Control and Charm are two different abilities, yet belong to the same family of abilities.

Then I'll repeat the question: what was the point of mentioning "mind control is considered charm"? It serves no purpose whatsoever in the conversation and you never elaborated on it.

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I'm wanting things to move past dark ranger because it's a wasted topic.

And I'll repeat what I said earlier: you're not the arbiter who decides what is a valid and/or wasted topic or not. You don't get to decide what we can and cannot discuss. You don't like the dark ranger discussion? The solution is simple: do not participate in it. You're allowed to not participate in it, you know? You're not adding anything of value by attempting to shut down the conversation, especially by stating your own opinion as fact.

It's not going to happen as a class

In your opinion

and the concept literally just sounds like a hunter spec.

Again, in your opinion

If this was a thread about new future specs, that'd be fine. But it isn't.

It's a thread about possible future classes, and the dark ranger is a possible future class concept, whether you like it or not. That is an actual fact.

[Syegfryed]

How is an elf-centric class dumb when elves are overwhelmingly the most popular races in the game?

you answered your own quest why would be dumb, read again.

[Diaphin]

you answered your own quest why would be dumb, read again.

Not really. When Elves have proven themselves to appeal to the broadest player base, it makes sense to creat content centered on elves, as it seems to be the most engaging to the most people. I mean, if for example Disneys sees that Mandalorian is the popular hot shit everyone likes, they wouldn't opt to instead renew Resistance for another season, wouldn't they?

[Syegfryed]

Not really. When Elves have proven themselves to appeal to the broadest player base, it makes sense to creat content centered on elves, as it seems to be the most engaging to the most people. I mean, if for example Disneys sees that Mandalorian is the popular hot shit everyone likes, they wouldn't opt to instead renew Resistance for another season, wouldn't they?

if they are already super popular there is no reason to pamper then even more making yet again another class exclusive to then because they are already popular, people who play elves will play then anyway, but if you make exclusive people who don't, will not play with then, is pointless

Besides, game is made of ton of races and even with they being popular they are not the only one playable, if you combine all other races x elves they would be minority anyway

[TheRevenantHero]

Not really. When Elves have proven themselves to appeal to the broadest player base, it makes sense to creat content centered on elves, as it seems to be the most engaging to the most people. I mean, if for example Disneys sees that Mandalorian is the popular hot shit everyone likes, they wouldn't opt to instead renew Resistance for another season, wouldn't they?

And once again, we already have a class that ONLY elves can play. To make another class only elves can play would basically be Blizzard telling players who play other races to go fuck themselves. Sure elves are the most popular but people play the other races too. We really don't need another DH situation. The next class really needs to be playable by all races to avoid pissing even more players off after the trainwreck that is Shadowlands.

[Triceron]

if they are already super popular there is no reason to pamper then even more making yet again another class exclusive to then because they are already popular, people who play elves will play then anyway, but if you make exclusive people who don't, will not play with then, is pointless

Besides, game is made of ton of races and even with they being popular they are not the only one playable, if you combine all other races x elves they would be minority anyway

So what races should they pamper instead?

Lesser played races don't get picked just cuz Blizz opens more class options. Opposite happens, if there are no good race options people start playng the faction that has em. Same goes with classes.

Mechagnomes got super OP racials and they're still bottom of the barrel picks.

[Teriz]

So what races should they pamper instead?

Lesser played races don't get picked just cuz Blizz opens more class options. Opposite happens, if there are no good race options people start playng the faction that has em. Same goes with classes.

Mechagnomes got super OP racials and they're still bottom of the barrel picks.

You don’t create new classes to appeal to the current userbase, you create new classes to appeal to the userbase who currently isn’t playing WoW for whatever reason. Which is why a technology class may be the wisest route to take since it is a popular RPG class, and is nonexistent in WoW’s class lineup.

Also OP racials mean little if the race housing those racials feels out of place and weird.

[Ielenia]

if they are already super popular there is no reason to pamper then even more making yet again another class exclusive to then because they are already popular, people who play elves will play then anyway, but if you make exclusive people who don't, will not play with then, is pointless

If the class fits the race, thematically and lore-wise, why should they not allow said race to pick said class other than "I'm offended that this race is super popular"? That's like saying "night elves are already super popular, so they shouldn't be demon hunters".

Besides, game is made of ton of races and even with they being popular they are not the only one playable, if you combine all other races x elves they would be minority anyway

Again, why should those popular races NOT be allowed to pick those classes? People aren't saying that dark rangers should be "elf only", that's your interpretaion. And an erroneous one, IMO.

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You don’t create new classes to appeal to the current userbase,

Um.... no. You actually do it to appeal your own current playerbase as well. Because you want them to buy your expansion. Expansions aren't made specifically and only to attract more players, but also to make the current players keep playing the game.

[Teriz]

Um.... no. You actually do it to appeal your own current playerbase as well. Because you want them to buy your expansion. Expansions aren't made specifically and only to attract more players, but also to make the current players keep playing the game.

Yeah, but if they're playing the game already, then their main purpose is for new content outside of the new class, such as raids, dungeons, weapons, etc. Obviously there are players who may be looking at the new class as a possible main switch, but the MAIN reason you're bringing in a new class is to attract NEW players.

Which is why you really shouldn't be using current WoW population numbers as a determining factor for what new class to bring into the game.

[Triceron]

You don’t create new classes to appeal to the current userbase, you create new classes to appeal to the userbase who currently isn’t playing WoW for whatever reason. Which is why a technology class may be the wisest route to take since it is a popular RPG class, and is nonexistent in WoW’s class lineup.

Also OP racials mean little if the race housing those racials feels out of place and weird.

I mean, they had their chance this expansion, and Blizzard made covenants instead of Tinkers.

We will see.

[Ielenia]

Yeah, but if they're playing the game already, then their main purpose is for new content outside of the new class, such as raids, dungeons, weapons, etc. Obviously there are players who may be looking at the new class as a possible main switch, but the MAIN reason you're bringing in a new class is to attract NEW players.

Which is why you really shouldn't be using current WoW population numbers as a determining factor for what new class to bring into the game.

And who said "current population numbers should be used as a determining factor for what new class to bring in the game"? No one, except you. And you're using this as a strawman.

Players currently playing the game will not be playing the main game anymore if they don't buy the next expansion. Which is why the expansion is designed to also with the current players in mind. Otherwise Blizzard might as well transform WoW into a FPS game with heavy lootbox mechanics that resets itself every year. Or a sports game with heavy lootbox mechanics that resets itself every year. Because those are the "biggest player markets" around, really.

The main reason for a new class is not to attract new players. Otherwise every expansion would have a new class, and this expansion would HAVE to have a new class. And yet it does not. If the whole, sole reason behind new classes is "attract new players", why did this expansion didn't have a new class? By your logic, it means Blizzard is not interested in attracting new players.

[Teriz]

I mean, they had their chance this expansion, and Blizzard made covenants instead of Tinkers.

We will see.

Necromancer- based covenants in the place of a Necromancer or Dark Ranger class.

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And who said "current population numbers should be used as a determining factor for what new class to bring in the game"? No one, except you. And you're using this as a strawman.

Read post #5808.

Players currently playing the game will not be playing the main game anymore if they don't buy the next expansion. Which is why the expansion is designed to also with the current players in mind. Otherwise Blizzard might as well transform WoW into a FPS game with heavy lootbox mechanics that resets itself every year. Or a sports game with heavy lootbox mechanics that resets itself every year. Because those are the "biggest player markets" around, really.

I was talking about the new class, not the expansion as a whole.

The main reason for a new class is not to attract new players. Otherwise every expansion[ would have a new class, and this expansion would HAVE to have a new class. And yet it does not. If the whole, sole reason behind new classes is "attract new players", why did this expansion didn't have a new class? By your logic, it means Blizzard is not interested in attracting new players.

I never said it was the sole reason, I said it’s the main reason. I also never said that new classes was the ONLY way to attract new players.

[Ielenia]

Read post #5808.

It does not say what you're implying it does. It says about engagement. Elves are a popular concept (both in and out of WoW) so giving elves access to more classes increases engagement, both of current players and new players.

I was talking about the new class, not the expansion as a whole.

That same thing applies. Again, the reason new classes are added is not determined by "which one will attract new players".

I never said it was the sole reason, I said it’s the main reason. I also never said that new classes was the ONLY way to attract new players.

The way you spoke about it here implied as such, implying that content such as dungeons, raids, etc are made for the current players, but new classes are made for new players.

But, either way, your assessment is wrong. Classes are not made with the intention (sole or main reason) to attract new players. It's just as much made for current players as well. If not more so. Because, more importantly than attracting new players, is keeping the players that you have currently have engaged, and one sure-fire way of doing it is with a new class.