If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[username993720]

Literally anything. You're turning "establishing a narrative" into "distorting the narrative" which just isn't the case. Especially since they had to do the same "distorting the narrative" to introduce Demon Hunters anyway.

How so?

It's just as much speculation to imply that any class in Legion has to fill a role of countering demons.

Death Knights didn't counter undead, Monks didn't counter Sha or Garrosh. Not quite sure why Legion's class suddenly has to counter demons just because it happened to be one of the main themes.

Blizzard devs have said a class is informed by the setting and story they want to tell. Having that class counter the main threat is not a requirement.

Again, i don't see a reason to discuss if the threat of an infraction looms over it.

The rule is, fit's the theme of the expansion, right? In Legion, the theme is literally just "all of Azeroth is facing the threat of the Legion, with the potential for all life on Azeroth to be destroyed." In a situation where all life on the planet could be destroyed or subjugated, that's definitely a good enough reason for any and all able bodied combatants, ie new classes we've never seen before, to come out of the woodwork to fight against the Legion. in a situation like that, the class doesn't NEED to be themed around the Legion, it just needs to be themed around wanting to fight for their right to exist, which could be literally anything.

That's the threat of every expansion and every enemy. You just described enemies, in general, not the Legion in a specific way. That could have been the Old Gods, the Scourge and so on. By describing it that way, you're leaving an opening to any class. Truth is, it was about the Legion, not just any threat. So, you need something to fit that aspect. Whether it is Demon Hunters, Warlock, Paladins (Army of the Light) or Mages (Guardian). With established background, not made up ones like Tinker and Dragonsworn being a force that opposes the Legion.

[Triceron]

Again, i don't see a reason to discuss if the threat of an infraction looms over it.

Feel free not to respond, then. Either way, I'm still going to make the points that address your arguments. As long as you choose to publicly stake your claims, it's fair game. My responses are free for anyone else to read and discuss.

That's the threat of every expansion and every enemy. You just described enemies, in general, not the Legion in a specific way. That could have been the Old Gods, the Scourge and so on. By describing it that way, you're leaving an opening to any class. Truth is, it was about the Legion, not just any threat. So, you need something to fit that aspect.

I think the others here have made their point pretty clear that the narrative could be established to best fit whatever class Blizzard could have chosen.

Legion's story centered on obtaining the Pillars of Creation from the Broken Isles in order to defeat the main threat; a story which involves every Champion of every Class in the game. That's the setting and story which we can consider what other New Classes could fit. The Demon invasion is just 'an enemy', as you so eloquently explained it, not the story or setting itself.

Xavius and Aszhara were not demon threats. The Drogbar, who were responsible for armoring Deathwing, are also not directly related to the Demon themes of Legion. Broken Isles in general had a very wide variety of enemies. All of those enemies were connected to our goal of obtaining the Pillars of Creation.

If we look at the story in this way, then Demon Hunters aren't the only class that are necessary to the story of Legion. Any class could be written in to obtain the Pillars of Creation, or to settle the various conflicts around the Broken Isles against the Naga, Drogbar, Nightborne and agents of the Nightmare. This is why Order Halls and the Champion were established, and how Blizzard involved every other existing class into Legion's setting and story.

[Katchii]

That's the threat of every expansion and every enemy. You just described enemies, in general, not the Legion in a specific way. That could have been the Old Gods, the Scourge and so on. By describing it that way, you're leaving an opening to any class.

This should be on the /SelfAwareWolves reddit.

This is exactly why @jellmoo and @Triceron were arguing that it could be anything Blizzard wanted.

Truth is, it was about the Legion, not just any threat. So, you need something to fit that aspect.

Why? Because you said so?

Sorry, that's not good enough and it's not "the truth." It's YOUR truth. Which is just your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, but stop trying to state it as fact.

Whether it is Demon Hunters, Warlock, Paladins (Army of the Light) or Mages (Guardian). With established background, not made up ones like Tinker and Dragonsworn being a force that opposes the Legion.

Again, why? Was the Legion not a threat to those "made up" classes who also exist on Azeroth?

The Legion was a threat to all life on the planet, as has been shown MANY times, throughout the lore and hammered home every time the Legion and it's many conquered worlds is brought up. Why would any potential ally, aka new class, be left out of that fight? That doesn't make any sense.

[username993720]

This should be on the /SelfAwareWolves reddit.

This is exactly why @jellmoo and @Triceron were arguing that it could be anything Blizzard wanted.

I just showed you what was wrong about your argument. You can't just generalize it to a "threat to all life on Azeroth", because that's every expansion. You're depriving the expansion of its uniqueness, and therefore the class that matches it.

Again, why? Was the Legion not a threat to those "made up" classes who also exist on Azeroth?

The Legion was a threat to all life on the planet, as has been shown MANY times, throughout the lore and hammered home every time the Legion and it's many conquered worlds is brought up. Why would any potential ally, aka new class, be left out of that fight? That doesn't make any sense.

Why? because being a threat to everybody is not a justified reason. Otherwise, we would end up with a Murloc class, because they are under threat from the Legion, too -_-

[Katchii]

I just showed you what was wrong about your argument. You can't just generalize it to a "threat to all life on Azeroth", because that's every expansion. You're depriving the expansion of its uniqueness, and therefore the class that matches it.

You did nothing of the sort, all you did was show that you're not understanding our argument. I'm not sure you're understanding how the expansion and class design processes work. It's not like they create the entirety of the expansion and then find the class that fits the best with what they've already designed and then just plop it in. The story of the class is woven into the expansion as they need it to be for them both to make sense within the context of the expansion as a whole.

With WotLK it was pretty obvious what would fit, but that doesn't mean it was literally required for them to choose Death Knight. They could have chosen just about anything they wanted and wrote it in such a way as to MAKE it fit. Just because Death Knight fits BETTER doesn't mean other classes wouldn't fit AT ALL.

Why? because being a threat to everybody is not a justified reason. Otherwise, we would end up with a Murloc class, because they are under threat from the Legion, too -_-

I'm honestly having difficulty wrapping my head around how you still do NOT understand that this is exactly what me, @jellmoo and @Triceron have been saying. Any class could be added at any time Blizzard wanted to because any threat big enough would draw them out and Blizzard could write a story to make sense for why they joined the fight now, or at all.

Again, just because some class ideas fit better doesn't mean other classes wouldn't fit at all.

Disagreeing with the idea doesn't make it wrong, like you seem to think it does.

[Triceron]

I'm honestly having difficulty wrapping my head around how you still do NOT understand that this is exactly what me, @jellmoo and @Triceron have been saying. Any class could be added at any time Blizzard wanted to because any threat big enough would draw them out and Blizzard could write a story to make sense for why they joined the fight now, or at all.

Again, just because some class ideas fit better doesn't mean other classes wouldn't fit at all.

Disagreeing with the idea doesn't make it wrong, like you seem to think it does.

Exactly this.

I mean, the example of Legion being a threat to the world is the definitive reason why practically any class can fit, given enough reason to fit the story.

Murlocs could absolutely be a race that was added with this reasoning in mind if there was enough reason to add them. Worgen and Goblins were added because of Deathwing being the same kind of world threat that gave reason for these races to join; there's nothing specific to fighting Deathwing involved with these races.

Expansion settings and story don't actually dismiss those Race or Class possibilities, they just inform what classes and races could be added at this given time; and even then Blizzard could completely bullshit it like they did by bringing in the Mag'har into an expansion all about a war on Azeroth.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Borrowed power sucks. I hate this idea of everything we work for just going away when a new expansion comes out. The Covenant stuff would have been so much cooler if they skinned the whole class and made it a permanent option, rather than just adding temporary abilities. For example, like Night Fae paladins getting a "green fire" thing where all their abilities changed to the blue Night Fae look instead of gold (and of course, adding Night Elf paladins too).

Agreed. I really don't like how Soulshape won't be 'relevant' next Expac, or the one after it. I hope that Class 'Skins' or 'Green Fire recolours' come soon in 10.00. Even something as simple as a Questline would work, but I'm just worried they'd shaft most6 classes, and only have a few options for like three or so classes

[username993720]

You did nothing of the sort, all you did was show that you're not understanding our argument. I'm not sure you're understanding how the expansion and class design processes work. It's not like they create the entirety of the expansion and then find the class that fits the best with what they've already designed and then just plop it in. The story of the class is woven into the expansion as they need it to be for them both to make sense within the context of the expansion as a whole.

With WotLK it was pretty obvious what would fit, but that doesn't mean it was literally required for them to choose Death Knight. They could have chosen just about anything they wanted and wrote it in such a way as to MAKE it fit. Just because Death Knight fits BETTER doesn't mean other classes wouldn't fit AT ALL.

Oh, i forgot how they could have interwoven a Monk class into WotLK -_-

I'm honestly having difficulty wrapping my head around how you still do NOT understand that this is exactly what me, @jellmoo and @Triceron have been saying. Any class could be added at any time Blizzard wanted to because any threat big enough would draw them out and Blizzard could write a story to make sense for why they joined the fight now, or at all.

Again, just because some class ideas fit better doesn't mean other classes wouldn't fit at all.

Disagreeing with the idea doesn't make it wrong, like you seem to think it does.

Why have specific threats, at all? Let just call it a general threat so we can add any class we want.

[Triceron]

Why have specific threats, at all? Let just call it a general threat so we can add any class we want.

Dealing with threats has never been considered a definitive reason for any class to be added to the game.

To date, the only class this has ever applied to is the Demon Hunter. Every other class in the game was not added for the sake of dealing with any specific threat.

[Katchii]

Oh, i forgot how they could have interwoven a Monk class into WotLK -_-

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.

You're lack of understanding, creativity or imagination is not my problem.

Why have specific threats, at all? Let just call it a general threat so we can add any class we want.

See above. But also deliberately just asking stupid questions to try and be derisive.

You seem to be the only one setting some arbitrary requirement that specific threats require specific classes to counter that threat, which is a nonsense argument.

Using the Legion example again: do you think that on the other planets that fought the Legion, that the only classes/ people that fought against them were Demon Hunters, Warlock, Paladins (Army of the Light) or Mages (Guardian)? Other planets, other races, with completely different cultures would use the exact same classes to fight the Legion? What if they didn't have those classes listed above? Would they just willingly bend over and take it?

FYI, that's meant to be rhetorical because the obvious answer is: NO. They would use whatever classes, weapons, tactics etc... they could to defend themselves without being restricted to some stupid arbitrary class requirement.

Now extend that logic to Azeroth. Are you implying that the only class that's ALLOWED to fight against the Legion are Demon Hunters, Warlock, Paladins (Army of the Light) or Mages (Guardian)? Why can't Tinkers, DragonKnights, Necromancers, Dark Rangers, and whatever else other class that might exist, literally not be allowed to fight the Legion?

Demon Hunters obviously fit, that doesn't mean other classes don't.

[FossilFree]

Agreed. I really don't like how Soulshape won't be 'relevant' next Expac, or the one after it. I hope that Class 'Skins' or 'Green Fire recolours' come soon in 10.00. Even something as simple as a Questline would work, but I'm just worried they'd shaft most6 classes, and only have a few options for like three or so classes

I really hope they do class skins at some point, but it would suck if only a couple of classes got them. I'd like to see at least one for each class, and they should be permanent (not borrowed power). Something along these lines would be cool:

Death Knight - Bolvar fire skin for frost
Demon Hunter - Warden skin for havoc (wardens use glaives too)
Druid - Red nightmare skin for balance, has new forms: red keeper for males and red dryad for females
Hunter - Shadow hunter skin for marksmanship
Mage - Chronomancer sand skin for arcane
Monk - Red crane skin for mistweaver
Paladin - Void knight skin for retribution
Priest - Holy skin for shadow
Rogue - Vampire blood skin for outlaw (Legion vampire pirates, vampirates?)
Shaman - Earth skin for enhancement
Warlock - Undeath skin for demonology
Warrior - Dragon skin for protection (Legion Neltharion+artifact connection)

[jellmoo]

How so?

Because Blizzard had to revive a dead Illidan and establish that a bunch of Illidari were frozen for a bunch of years in a Night Elf prison and were then thawed out because the Legion attacked.

How is saying "Tinkers band together to find an army of demons" some massive manipulation of the narrative to order to get a playable class, but a tale of secret resurrection and Captain America-ing a group of Demon Hunters is not?

The Legion represented a global threat. Literally any group could have come forward with the intention to fight it and the narrative would have made sense. It's not like every fight the world ever faces needs to have an incredibly similar to that threat group to come forward to fight it.

[Ielenia]

Why? because being a threat to everybody is not a justified reason. Otherwise, we would end up with a Murloc class, because they are under threat from the Legion, too -_-

First off: "murloc" is not a class, but a race. That's like saying "night elf" is a class.

Second: it is a very much justified reason. Why do you think that, in times of war and crisis, the military drafts as many people as they can? I mean, the announcement trailer has Khadgar literally saying "in our most desperate hour". What other time would be best to scrounge up any able bodies to help us fight such threat?

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Oh, i forgot how they could have interwoven a Monk class into WotLK -_-

You mean... like the runemaster who was described to be "monk-like" because it used martial arts? We would have a "monk" class that uses runes to empower themselves instead of ales.

[pacotaco]

Oh, i forgot how they could have interwoven a Monk class into WotLK -_-



Why have specific threats, at all? Let just call it a general threat so we can add any class we want.

At this point you're just arguing in bad faith. It's impossible you CAN'T understand what they are explaining to you.

[username993720]

Dealing with threats has never been considered a definitive reason for any class to be added to the game.

To date, the only class this has ever applied to is the Demon Hunter. Every other class in the game was not added for the sake of dealing with any specific threat.

You know that commenting on someone that can't reply back isn't a fair argument, right?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse.

You're lack of understanding, creativity or imagination is not my problem.

Imagination/creativity is not whatever the fuck i like. It needs to exist in the boundaries of a framework.

See above. But also deliberately just asking stupid questions to try and be derisive.

You seem to be the only one setting some arbitrary requirement that specific threats require specific classes to counter that threat, which is a nonsense argument.

Using the Legion example again: do you think that on the other planets that fought the Legion, that the only classes/ people that fought against them were Demon Hunters, Warlock, Paladins (Army of the Light) or Mages (Guardian)? Other planets, other races, with completely different cultures would use the exact same classes to fight the Legion? What if they didn't have those classes listed above? Would they just willingly bend over and take it?

FYI, that's meant to be rhetorical because the obvious answer is: NO. They would use whatever classes, weapons, tactics etc... they could to defend themselves without being restricted to some stupid arbitrary class requirement.

Now extend that logic to Azeroth. Are you implying that the only class that's ALLOWED to fight against the Legion are Demon Hunters, Warlock, Paladins (Army of the Light) or Mages (Guardian)? Why can't Tinkers, DragonKnights, Necromancers, Dark Rangers, and whatever else other class that might exist, literally not be allowed to fight the Legion?

Demon Hunters obviously fit, that doesn't mean other classes don't.

Hmmm... let's see.
The Aldrachi people? used Demon Hunter Warglaives to fight the Legion.
Draenei? set up a fucking Army of the Light to fight the Legion.
Got any more examples?

Because Blizzard had to revive a dead Illidan and establish that a bunch of Illidari were frozen for a bunch of years in a Night Elf prison and were then thawed out because the Legion attacked.

How is saying "Tinkers band together to find an army of demons" some massive manipulation of the narrative to order to get a playable class, but a tale of secret resurrection and Captain America-ing a group of Demon Hunters is not?

The Legion represented a global threat. Literally any group could have come forward with the intention to fight it and the narrative would have made sense. It's not like every fight the world ever faces needs to have an incredibly similar to that threat group to come forward to fight it.

That's not making adjustments to fit the Demon Hunter into the expansion. That's making adjustments to fit Illidan and his Illidari into the expansion. If you used different figures, the Demon Hunter would still fit.

First off: "murloc" is not a class, but a race. That's like saying "night elf" is a class.

Second: it is a very much justified reason. Why do you think that, in times of war and crisis, the military drafts as many people as they can? I mean, the announcement trailer has Khadgar literally saying "in our most desperate hour". What other time would be best to scrounge up any able bodies to help us fight such threat?

No shit it's not a class. I'm being sarcastic to show how silly it is.

Then, i ask again. What's the point of differentiating the themes of the expansions if just anybody fits? Just say fuck it. Azeroth is under attack by an unidentified, ungendered, neutral, abstract, undefined fart.
Your fear of labeling is what's causing this argument in the first place.

You mean... like the runemaster who was described to be "monk-like" because it used martial arts? We would have a "monk" class that uses runes to empower themselves instead of ales.

Lo and behold, it wasn't added. I wonder why...
And if you want another example, how about the Blademaster? or the Shadow Hunter? or even the Tinker? How would you fit them into the expnasion?

At this point you're just arguing in bad faith. It's impossible you CAN'T understand what they are explaining to you.

I'll tell you what this is about. Every time, the users of this thread are looking for their next victim. This time, it is me. That's why i have to fight against 5 people at once.
It's not because i'm, necessarily, wrong. It's because people here need a reason to band together for a common cause.

[Syegfryed]

I really hope they do class skins at some point, but it would suck if only a couple of classes got them. I'd like to see at least one for each class, and they should be permanent (not borrowed power). Something along these lines would be cool:

Death Knight - Bolvar fire skin for frost
Demon Hunter - Warden skin for havoc (wardens use glaives too)
Druid - Red nightmare skin for balance, has new forms: red keeper for males and red dryad for females
Hunter - Shadow hunter skin for marksmanship
Mage - Chronomancer sand skin for arcane
Monk - Red crane skin for mistweaver
Paladin - Void knight skin for retribution
Priest - Holy skin for shadow
Rogue - Vampire blood skin for outlaw (Legion vampire pirates, vampirates?)
Shaman - Earth skin for enhancement
Warlock - Undeath skin for demonology
Warrior - Dragon skin for protection (Legion Neltharion+artifact connection)

Class skin is definitely more easy to do and are probably how they will do those things, but i think its so much of a waste.

Every race but druids getting a 4th spec would be so much better, and rly something possible, but i guess it would be a nightmare to balance since they can't deal with the current ones

[Katchii]

Imagination/creativity is not whatever the fuck i like. It needs to exist in the boundaries of a framework.

And what framework is that? Also, you're right in that it's not whatever the fuck YOU like. It's whatever Blizzard wants.

Hmmm... let's see.
The Aldrachi people? used Demon Hunter Warglaives to fight the Legion.

But weren't Demon Hunters themselves. What class were they? What other skills or abilities did they have?

Or are you seriously going to try and imply that because they use the same weapon, that they're the same thing? Go ahead, try it.

Draenei? set up a fucking Army of the Light to fight the Legion.

That's one faction that's united to fight them. What about the races on the hundreds of other worlds that the Legion invaded?

Also, can you comprehensively explain and describe what class each and every member of the Army of Light is? Or are you implying that every.single.member is a Paladin, Demon Hunter, Mage or Warlock?

Or are you arguing that only Lightforged Draenei are soldiers within the Army of Light?

Got any more examples?

Do YOU have more examples? Because your weak attempt to prove your argument wasn't very effective.

[Triceron]

You know that commenting on someone that can't reply back isn't a fair argument, right?

That'd only be true if that person were incapable of replying.

You've shown here that you are fully capable of replying and only choose not to, so there's nothing unfair about it.


To stay on topic, I'll reiterate that what classes Blizzard chooses to add to the game is not dependant on any given specific threat. Every Expansion Class that has been added has their own reasons to join the Alliance and Horde, and their own reasons to have been accepted.

If we're talking about other classes added to the game, whether we're talking specifically about Legion or not, then we should be addressing each class with their own reasons to be added.

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Class skin is definitely more easy to do and are probably how they will do those things, but i think its so much of a waste.

Every race but druids getting a 4th spec would be so much better, and rly something possible, but i guess it would be a nightmare to balance since they can't deal with the current ones

The balance issue is mostly why 4th specs haven't already been a thing, and it's even something that gets in the way of adding regular new classes.

It's too late for them to pivot and redo the whole system and move it away from Spec balance too. Class Skins really is the most practical solution to adding any number of new concepts.

[Syegfryed]

The balance issue is mostly why 4th specs haven't already been a thing, and it's even something that gets in the way of adding regular new classes.

It's too late for them to pivot and redo the whole system and move it away from Spec balance too. Class Skins really is the most practical solution to adding any number of new concepts.

I think its very possible with a decent team balancing it, but those days this department isn't doing a great job, (in fact i even belief the class skins would be done bad)so the easy solution is the path of least resistance

[Ielenia]

No shit it's not a class. I'm being sarcastic to show how silly it is.

And your failed attempt at sarcasm undermines your own argument, as it shows your lack of understanding of what is being discussed. You could have easily said "baker class" or "farmer class" if you wanted a "reducto ad absurdum" without looking silly, yourself.

Then, i ask again. What's the point of differentiating the themes of the expansions if just anybody fits? Just say fuck it. Azeroth is under attack by an unidentified, ungendered, neutral, abstract, undefined fart.

With what you wrote there, you heavily imply that the "themes of the expansions" exist solely to allow classes to be added, which is a demonstrably false idea.

Your fear of labeling is what's causing this argument in the first place.

Again, it's not my so-called "fear" (which I don't have) of whatever you think I do, but your lack of understanding of the situation.

Lo and behold, it wasn't added. I wonder why...

And that's all you can do: wonder. Because we don't know. No one other than the Blizzard employees themselves who participated in the decision know why. So stop pretending like you know.

And if you want another example, how about the Blademaster? or the Shadow Hunter? or even the Tinker? How would you fit them into the expnasion?

Legion? It's rather easy. Again, the story has been presented as "Azeroth's most desperate hour", therefore technically any class would fit, considering I imagine all would be interested in keeping their world demon-free.