If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Teriz]

Riiiiiiight... here:

Yes, WC3 characters. Not WC3 the game.

Exactly: we should treat it as a coincidence. And you know why? Because we don't have any word from Blizzard whatsoever about it being a rule for class creation. Even if the first three expansions classes being tied to those WC3 units was intentional, we still need word from Blizzard.

Again, we don't need to understand the "why" to recognize that it is happening.

There we go. "Rules for thee but not for me". Guess what? Poison magic that deals "nature damage" is also fundamentally different than diseases. That deal frost and shadow damage, mind you.

Then please explain from a gameplay standpoint how a Necromancer spreading AoE nature DoT is going to be any different than a DK disease dealing shadow DoT.

Yes, that is a selling point, because we are long overdue for another spellcaster class considering all three expansion classes have been melee classes. And, Teriz, please don't try to speak for other people. You don't get to tell us what the selling points of the necromancer are. That is so condescendingly arrogant of you.

No, the selling point of a Necromancer is a spell caster than can raise undead minions. DKs are already spell casters tha can raise undead minions. No one is pining for a spell caster than can spread poison.

Yes. Healing with holy magic is fundamentally different than healing with holy magic, right?

Yeah, let's keep pretending that Shadow and Discipline Priest doesn't exist.....

Again, wrong. What we're proposing is the difference between the priest class and the paladin class.

If you say so.

Abilities are irrelevant considering I was talking about the concepts themselves, and the engineering profession adheres to a 'T' the lore description of the WC3 tinker hero regarding technology malfunctions.

Where's the Tinker's claw pack in Engineering?

Because you speak for Blizzard to decide that, right? I said it before, and I'll say it again: any "pedigree" or "requirements" exist in your head, and in your head only.

And within all 3 expansion classes.

But the vanilla classes prove that we don't need a WC3 hero, though.

But the expansion classes do, and the next class we're getting is an expansion class.

- - - Updated - - -

If we knew then it wouldn't be a mystery. We don't even know what a Runemaster is outside of the RPG books, which is the only source of the class. But the fact it existed shows that not everything has to derive from WC3 as a 1:1 concept.

It's a class that's been mentioned multiple times by different devs, all corroborating the idea that this concept got fairly far in the dev process, enough for some to have personal attachment to. I don't think that would happen if it were just a paper-concept like what we know of in the RPG books that got scrapped before given any gameplay. The fact that it has zero conceptual themes shared with a DK and was named as a class that got folded into the DK shows that there was indeed some form of gameplay; and we see that in the DK's rune system today. Whatever more was taken we won't really know unless the devs could provide more detail to what this Runemaster originally was going to be. I find it curious that it was being compared to Druids and Warlocks, which makes me thing it was actually more of a caster than the melee representation we know of in the RPG books.

Gameplay wise, I'd imagine if they took any of the gameplay from the Runemaster it might have been the dual-wield Parry tanking of Frost, which would have made a lot more sense applied to a Runemaster who tanked with enchantment cooldowns and parrying with his fists.

Unfortunate. I rather liked the Monk-based version of the Runemaster.

Yes, which makes a new class based on HOTS design more likely than in WC3.

And with something like a Draconic themed class, we have far more to draw from than simple technology from one class. Consider that Mekkatorque was shown at Blizzcon as a hero already made in Heroes of the Storm , but they never ended up adding him in and have since added 3 Dragon heroes from WoW instead.

https://heroesofthestorm.fandom.com/wiki/Gelbin

Okay, I then agree that a Dragonsworn class based on the HotS heroes has an opening as a possible future WoW class thanks to Blizzard's apparent shift from WC3 to HotS as shown in the Demon Hunter class, the Shaman class, Dark Ranger NPCs, and the appearance of HotS Tinker abilities in the IE teams.

[Funak]

Silly question. It would be another leather tank of course. Last two have been advanced rogues, why wouldn't the next one be that as well?

[Directionalk9]

I don't know, when ever i play western games i tend to use shotguns more then anything.

Two specs ready to go.

[Rendark]

Two specs ready to go.

shotgun, dual pistols and like snake oil for healing.

[Xilurm]

Dragonsworn or whatever would be cool if they make that Dragon Isles expansion that seems to be going around rn.

[TheRevenantHero]

You're joking, right? They are, literally, called Death Knights.
again, with the dark magic... what kind of dark magic? is it fel, void or necromancy? dark is just a general term. just like arcane mages and balance druids deal arcane magic, but are different. frost mages, frost death knights, Shamans and Hunter traps deal frost damage, but they are different. fire mages, destruction warlocks, shamans and hunters deal fire damage, but they are different. Rogue's poisons, Hunter's venom, Druid's sun abilities and Shaman's earth/wind deal nature damage, but they are different. shadow priests, subtlety rogues, warlocks, demon hunters and death knights deal shadow damage, but they are different. shamans, druids and monks heal with nature magic, but they are different.

The necromancer class was one of three front runners to becoming the first hero class released with Wrath of the Lich King, however, the ideas surrounding them were incorporated into the death knight. (The two other front runners being runemasters and monks.)

Raise Dead, a necromancer ability from Warcraft 3, a Death Knight ability from Warcraft 2, and a Necrolyte ability from Warcraft 1, was given to the Death Knight:
Raise Dead
Level 55 Unholy death knight ability
30 yd range60 sec cooldown
Instant
Raises a ghoul to fight by your side. You can have a maximum of one ghoul at a time.

Unholy Frenzy, a warcraft 3 necromancer ability, was given to the Death Knight:
Unholy Frenzy
Level 58 Unholy death knight talent
Passive
When a Festering Wound bursts, you gain 100% increased attack speed for 2.5 sec.

In Warcraft 3, Death Knights use Death Coil:
"Death Coil is an iconic death knight ability that was first used by the Death Knight unit in Warcraft II, and was subsequently used by Death Knights in Warcraft III, and the tabletop RPG."

Warcraft 2:
"Death Coil is a particularly potent variation of the Touch of Darkness spell. By channeling the necromantic powers of the underworld through his ghoulish form, the Death Knight creates a field of dark energy that drains the life-force from any who come in contact with it. This life-force is then consumed - thereby replenishing the strength of one so enchanted, be he friend or foe. The icy embrace of death can be beneficial...for those who know how to control it."

Warcraft 3:
"Death knights can call upon the forces of darkness at will, causing bolts of death to issue from their hands. While doing considerable damage to the death knights’ enemies, the Death Coil also heals their undead brethren."

Death Pact:
"Through the sacrifice of his followers, a death knight can absorb their unholy energies and convert them into health for himself."

Animate Dead:
Animate Dead (Ultimate)
Raises 6 dead units in an area to fight for the Death Knight. Animated units are invulnerable.

Death and Decay was give to the Death Knight class:
Death and Decay is a signature spell of both the death knights of Warcraft II and the liches of Warcraft III. It is a necromancy spell.
The baleful energies of the spell cause anything caught inside to rot, decompose, and wither within seconds - even causing stone to blacken and crumble to dust.

"Death knights are the former champions of the Scourge. They fortify their bodies and drain life energy itself with the power of blood, sharpen their blades and strike powerfully with the power of frost, and raise the dead while striking with the unholy fervor granted by undeath."

They, literally, ride undead horses, gained through the shadowlands, in their starting area:
"In life, this deathcharger was a horse owned by the Scarlet Crusade, and kept at the Havenshire Stables under the watch of Stable Master Kitrik. The horse was then stolen by an initiate Death knight of Acherus and returned to Salanar the Horseman, who then sent the animal to the Realm of Shadows, where one of his Dark Riders of Acherus awaited it.

The Dark Rider slew the horse and then raised it as a deathcharger. The death knight was then sent into the realm by Salanar to challenge the dark rider. If successful in killing the dark rider (most are not), the deathcharger permits the death knight to ride it. Returned to the world of the living, Salanar presents the deathcharger as the death knight's new, personal mount."

Once again, you are showing that you know nothing about lore, and you are here to troll.



That is, somewhat, true.
Paladin could be seen as an upgraded version of the Knight unit:
Human Paladins are Knights trained in the ways of divinity ("At the end of the war, Archbishop Alonsus Faol and his apprentice Uther Lightbringer founded the Knights of the Silver Hand. This order trained clerics and knights in both the ways of war and divinity.")

The Blood Mage could be seen as an upgraded version of the Sorceress and Spellbreaker units:
While the Sorceress expresses the Arcane mastery of High elves/Blood elves ("Blood Elves present a significant force of Arcane mastery in the world of Azeroth. Even before their fall, the Elves were noted for their mastery over Arcane magic. Most, if not all Blood Elves have rudimentary knowledge in the Arcane arts and many choose the path of the mage."), the Blood mage expresses the Blood elf magic school preference ("While most high elves choose the frost school, blood elves prefer to practice fire magic.")

Mystical heroes, blood mages (a.k.a. bloodmages, sometimes blood magi or bloodmagi are blood elves adept at controlling magic and ranged assault. The Blood mage has Drain Mana ability.

The Spellbreaker unit has Control Magic ability. it, also, has Feedback ability - destroying mana.

Although, not really visible on his WC3 model, in Heroes of the Storm it is visible to see that Kael'thas wears plate armor. he is, also, said to be a melee combatant - using his sword, Felo'melorn, in battle.

Mountain King could be seen as an upgrade version of the Gryphon Rider unit:
They both use lightning-hammers. Gryphon Rider uses Storm Hammers ability and Mountain King uses Storm Bolt and Thunder Clap.

Far Seer could be seen as an upgraded version of the Shaman unit:
Under the leadership of Thrall, the Orcs have rediscovered their ancient Shamanistic traditions. Now, all Orc magic users practice Shaman magic which draws its power from the natural world and the elements. Powerful shamans can call lightning from the sky and rouse the earth itself to devour legions of their enemies.

Far Seers are ancient Orcs who represent the pinnacle of Shamanistic power. Far Seers are not only tied to the elements of the earth and sky, but are also adept at foretelling the future.

Tauren Chieftain could be seen as an upgraded version of the Tauren Warrior and Spirit Walker units:
These elder Tauren warriors lead their Tribes in daily life as well as in battle. When roused by battle, the gigantic Chiefs employ enormous warblades which are capable of tearing through solid trees with one mighty swipe

When roused, tauren are fierce fighters and use their mighty totems to smash their enemies into the dust of the plains.

The reason i included the Spirit Walker is because Tauren Chieftains also possess the Shamanistic Reincarnation ability.

Shadow Hunter could be seen as an upgraded version of the Witch Doctor unit:
The Witch Doctor unit uses Sentry Ward, Stasis Trap Ward and Healing Ward. the Shadow Hunter uses Serpent Ward.

Crypt Lord could be seen as an upgraded version of the Crypt Fiend:
The cunning Crypt Fiends were once the lords of the ancient spider kingdom of Azjol-Nerub that spanned the entirety of Northrend in ancient times. However, the Crypt Fiends' power base was destroyed by the Lich King, Ner'zhul, when he and his undead Scourge took control of the frozen continent. Now the Crypt Fiends command their spider underlings in the name of their master, Ner'zhul. These aberrant creatures are capable of summoning swarms of vile insects [...].

These ancient, evil behemoths were once the mighty kings of the subterranean spider kingdom of Azjol-Nerub. Though the Nerubians fell before the wrath of the Lich King during the fabled War of the Spider, the insidious Crypt Lords were swayed over to the Lich King's ranks and granted considerable power and the immortality of undeath. Now the giant, thundering beasts serve as the Lich King's mightiest warriors and the guardians of the Scourge's holdings in Northrend. They can summon swarms of insects, as well, through the Locust Swarm ability.

Dreadlord could be seen as an upgraded version of the Gargoyle unit:
They are both vampiric. and, as we learn in Shadowlands, Dreadlords are, probably, former Revendreth denizens.

Dark Ranger could be seen as an upgrade version of the Banshee unit:
Pretty obvious, as Sylvanas was raised as a Banshee before she regained her physical body and became a Dark Ranger. The Bashee has a Possession ability, while the Dark Ranger has a Charm ability (both are to take control of the enemy).

Death Knight could be seen as an upgraded version of the Necromancer (or Lich, as Kel'thuzad was transformed from a Necromamcer unit into a Lich hero unit):
The Lich King offered them untold power in exchange for their services and loyalty. The weary, vengeful warriors accepted his dark pact, and although they retained their humanity, their twisted souls were bound to his evil will for all time. The Death Knight has Animate Dead ability - raising 6 dead units. Death Knights also have the Death Pact ability - kills a friendly target unit (in exchange for HP).

Though they retained their Humanity after making a pact with death, Necromancers became the most terrifying agents of the Scourge. Ner'zhul, the Lich King, granted these malevolent sorcerers true power over the dead in exchange for their loyalty and obedience. the Necromancer has Raise Dead ability - raises 2 skeletons. Necromancers also have Unholy Frenzy - Sacrifices a friendly undead unit (in exchange for Haste).

Now, Liches wield frost magic along with their own considerable necromantic spells. Liches possess the Dark Ritual ability - sacrifices a friendly target unit (in exchange for mana).

Keeper of the Grove could be seen as an upgraded version of the Dryad unit:
The enchanted Keepers are the favored sons of the demigod Cenarius. Like their lesser Dryad sisters, the Keepers appear to be half Night Elf, half stag. Though they typically remain within the sacred Moon Groves of Ashenvale forest, the Keepers always heed the call to arms when the greater lands of Kalimdor are threatened.

The enchanted Dryads are the daughters of the Night Elf demigod, Cenarius. Though they abhor unnecessary violence, the Dryads will defend the wildlands of Kalimdor with their lives if need be.

Priestess of the Moon could be seen as an upgraded version of the Archer and Huntress units:
The first rank of the Sentinel army is comprised of Archers. They possess the Elune's Grace ability.

Huntresses are the elite cadre of the Sentinel army. Drawing their strength from the moon goddess, Elune, these warrior women ride the feral Nightsabre panthers into battle. Huntresses are strong, swift, and merciless to those who would defile the sanctity of Ashenvale Forest. They Possess the Sentinel ability - summons an owl.

The fearless leaders of the Sentinel army, the Priestesses of the Moon epitomize the power and grace of their race's ancient Moon Goddess, Elune. The Priestesses, equipped with silvery, glowing armor, ride the fearless Frostsaber tigers of Winterspring into battle. Charged with the safekeeping of the night elf lands and armed with magical energy bows - the Priestesses will stop at nothing to rid their ancient land of evil. They possess the Scout ability - summons an owl.

The Goblin Tinker could be seen as an upgraded version of the Goblin Sapper unit:
The Sapper posesses the Kaboom! ability - exploding the sapper.

Though his parts may sometimes fail and the occasional explosion does occur [...]. The Tinker possesses the Pocket Factory ability - summons a Clockwerk Goblin, which explodes. It, also, possesses the Cluster Rockets ability - bombards an area with rockets.

Naga Sea Witch could be seen as an upgraded version of the Naga Siren:
Their Parasite ability can corrupt enemies, turning them into a watery minion, while their Frost Shield protects friendly units from harm. The sirens can create whirlpools while underwater, to entrap enemies, and when they returned to the surface [...].

Naga Sea Witch possesses the Frost Arrows and Tornado abilities.



I know. i just tried to clarify that the term is not always interchangeable. meaning, a Rogue can produce an Assassin, Pirate or Ninja but, an Assassin doesn't always produces a Rogue, Pirate or Ninja; a Pirate does not, necessarily, produces a Rogue, Assassin or Ninja; and a Ninja does not, always, mean you are a Rogue, Assassin or Pirate.



Did i just read it right? you're in favor of Dark Rangers? have the end times come?

P.S. - WoWpedia images do not work, for some reason. use images from google that do not use the Wiki link.

I'm not reading any of this. Try not writing a god damned novel next time.

[Amunrasonther]

Yes, and the majority of the Demon Hunter and Paladin's abilities are tied to weapons. The DK is fairly even in terms of weapon-based and non-weapon based spells.

All of these magical melee classes have spells, and then melee attacks that deal magical damage. Only a few attacks deal straight physical damage and the Death Knight is no different.

Other than the fact that they cast spells. Death Knights are the typical "magical knight" or "Battle Mage" found in many fantasy games. That doesn't mean that we HAVE to have a fully ranged class that is doing pretty much exactly what the DK is doing, especially given Blizzard's affection for melee-based Necromancers.

We don't HAVE to have any new classes in future expansions period. The point is, there exists an opening for a true ranged spell caster that utilizes necromancy and the Necromancer class concept is very popular.

It honestly doesn't make sense in a Necromancer class either. Especially in WoW where the use of Blood magic really isn't used to restore others, it's used to drain others and enhance only the spell caster. In the case of Death Knights, they use Blood Magic for precisely that purpose.

Blood Magic is used to heal, shield, protect, and buff allies. So no, you're 100% wrong here. Using Blood Magic to help allies is found in WoW and could be part of the Necromancer's theme/concept.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=276540...ld#used-by-npc
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=90946/bloodwash
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=24617/blood-funnel
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=169214/vivifying-blood
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=235262/blood-siphon
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=61606/mark-of-blood

And again, Alchemy/Nature themes wouldn't be found in a Necromancer class either. Alchemy themes tend to go to science/technology classes in fantasy games.

WoW lore/NPCs is pretty clear that alchemy, nature magic, poison etc, are all found within Necromancers, but not DKs. It's a significant feature that sets them apart. Necromancer students are literally being taught the skill in Scholomance. This notion of yours that alchemy/poison magic isn't found in the Necromancer class is your opinion, and demonstrably proven false over and over.

In World of Warcraft, Necromancers are also Death Knights. Death Knights were the Necromancer hero unit in WC3, and Blizzard purposely put Necromancer class concepts into the Death Knight class.

You're just further highlighting that there's a difference between Necromancers and Death Knights. The two classes share necromancy and themes, but they don't share class concepts. The Necromancer class concept is a light-armored RANGED spell caster that uses necromancy. The Death Knight class concept is a heavy armored, MELEE attacker, that uses necromancy. I really find it funny that you get so hung up on WC3 hero classes and existing in-game Necromancer NPCs when most WC3 heroes have like 2-3? abilities and most Necromancer NPCs in game also have 1-2 abilities and its often Warlock spells. A full fledged Necromancer concept developed by blizzard would only strengthen the differences between Necromancers and Death Knights. I don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge that.

I mean in all seriousness, why do you think they didn't introduce a Necromancer class in this expansion? Are you going to follow @Ielenia's BS and think that Shadowlands somehow doesn't fit the theme of a Necromancer class, or are you going to simply admit that Blizzard didn't introduce a Necromancer class into WoW because there's already a Necromancer class in WoW?

Blizzard is all about laying the groundwork for things. A big hurdle they would need to work around before the introduction of Shadowlands is that pretty much...all Necromancers are evil. Now we're seeing from Shadowlands and the Maldraxxus that this isn't true. Blizzard would be a fool to not introduce a class next expansion, and I still fully believe that our time in Shadowlands is going to have a huge influence on how death (and the undead) currently works in Azeroth.

In your conversations with @Ielenia:

Yes, Paladins wear heavy armor infused with holy magic. Tanking makes sense. Necromancers use magic to empower themselves, so healing doesn't make much sense.

See above.

It does matter, because if the DK has a lot of ranged necromantic spells, that gives less space to a Necromancer using those same spells in the same way.

And yet, Paladins and Priests use holy magic in roughly the same way, Warlocks and Demon Hunters use chaos magic the same way, Shamans, Mages, and Warlocks all use fire magic the same way, Death Knights and Mages use frost magic the same way, etc etc

Then please explain from a gameplay standpoint how a Necromancer spreading AoE nature DoT is going to be any different than a DK disease dealing shadow DoT.

Your first mistake would be to assume a Necromancer poison spec would be all about dots. Poison can be used in a channeled spray; it's used to burn, bomb, gas, puddle, create oozes, and so on - Diseases do none of these.

No, the selling point of a Necromancer is a spell caster than can raise undead minions. DKs are already spell casters tha can raise undead minions. No one is pining for a spell caster than can spread poison.

Within my class concept, I was able to incorporate Skeletal Alchemist and Apothecary minions in addition to ooze minions. All three specs had their individual fans. So again you're wrong. There would be fans of a poison speced Necromancer. Look at Diablo as well.

Yeah, let's keep pretending that Shadow and Discipline Priest doesn't exist.....

And you can keep pretending that the only difference that you believe separates Priests and Paladins (shadow magic), couldn't be done the same for Death Knights and Necromancers (nature magic).

well since i am bored. i am going to ask some questions for the People that want Necromancer.

how would you create it without butchering DK and warlock?
When people think necromancer they think raising the dead, so would all the spec have pets or just one?
Keep in mind this is Warcraft and i think quite a few people want the D2 style necromancer for WoW which i am not sure fits. (i dont know what the D3 version fights like)

Refer to my concept and let me know what you think.

Quick rundown:

First off, Necromancers would have a healing specialization role which immediately sets them apart from Death Knights and Warlocks. Faithless Necromancers as they would be called (because they don't follow any religious path) would steal blood from their enemies and heal their allies with it. So that leaves us only with 2 specs that need to work differently from DKs/Warlocks.

My Chemical spec focuses on using dark alchemy abilities to spray their enemies with poisonous gasses, blast with acidic bombs, launch syringes filled with toxins, and cover the ground in puddles of poison. I incorporated the Mad Scientist theme into this spec, so you also have ooze minions and such. That's just a brief description. And the last spec, Undeath, is all about Necromancers wanting to become undead. So much that they gain the ability to shapeshift into other undead creatures and highjack the bodies of both their enemies and their pets. Each spec would have their own undead minions but not permanent and not as diverse as Warlocks.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...cer-Hero-Class

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-Necromancer = The problem with this class is that nearly all it's flavor and spells are already taken by the Death Knight.
You would have to redesign the Death Knight class in order to make the Necromancer exist.

Not true. See sig.

[MCMLXXXII]

Appearance in WC3:


Expansion released:

With that logic:

WotLK: Death Knight

Cata: nothing

MoP: Monk

WoD: nothing

Legion: Demon Hunter

BfA: nothing

Shadowlands: uhmmm

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1. Wardens are only Night Elves.

Pre WotLK, Death Knights were only humans (with Orc souls in W2)

Pre MoP, Monks were only Pandaren.

[Teriz]

All of these magical melee classes have spells, and then melee attacks that deal magical damage. Only a few attacks deal straight physical damage and the Death Knight is no different.

And the DK has a slew of instant cast spells that deal nothing but magic damage. What's more, it's Necromancy, and they're raising a wide variety of undead minions. So what exactly is the point of a Necromancer class?

We don't HAVE to have any new classes in future expansions period. The point is, there exists an opening for a true ranged spell caster that utilizes necromancy and the Necromancer class concept is very popular.

I don't think so. We have a ranged spell caster that specializes in dark and shadow magic. The only difference between a Necromancer and a Warlock is that one raises demons while the other raises the dead. Wouldn't a glyph that turns Warlock demons into undead minions take care of this completely?

Blood Magic is used to heal, shield, protect, and buff allies. So no, you're 100% wrong here. Using Blood Magic to help allies is found in WoW and could be part of the Necromancer's theme/concept.

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=276540...ld#used-by-npc
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=90946/bloodwash
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=24617/blood-funnel
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=169214/vivifying-blood
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=235262/blood-siphon
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=61606/mark-of-blood

Yeah, most of those look like DK abilities, and I'm not seeing a lot of restoring allies, I'm seeing bizarre stuff like healing enemies by spraying blood all over them.

WoW lore/NPCs is pretty clear that alchemy, nature magic, poison etc, are all found within Necromancers, but not DKs. It's a significant feature that sets them apart. Necromancer students are literally being taught the skill in Scholomance. This notion of yours that alchemy/poison magic isn't found in the Necromancer class is your opinion, and demonstrably proven false over and over.

Yes, because DKs skipped the Alchemy part and utilized shadow magic to spread diseases. The point is there are Necromancers, and there are mad scientists. The two are not the same thing. Krick is a necromancer, sure, but not Professor Putricide, or Professor Slate. I can see the notion of creating a Venomancer that utilizes poison magic, but a Necromancer with a spray gun and tossing around poison bombs? That's just silly.

You're just further highlighting that there's a difference between Necromancers and Death Knights. The two classes share necromancy and themes, but they don't share class concepts. The Necromancer class concept is a light-armored RANGED spell caster that uses necromancy. The Death Knight class concept is a heavy armored, MELEE attacker, that uses necromancy. I really find it funny that you get so hung up on WC3 hero classes and existing in-game Necromancer NPCs when most WC3 heroes have like 2-3? abilities and most Necromancer NPCs in game also have 1-2 abilities and its often Warlock spells. A full fledged Necromancer concept developed by blizzard would only strengthen the differences between Necromancers and Death Knights. I don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge that.

Well here are some of the WC3 abilities that went into Death Knights:

Death Coil: Heals the undead, hurts the living. (ranged)
Death Pact: Absorbs energy from a friendly minion to heal the DK (ranged)
Unholy Aura: Increases movement speed and regeneration rate
Animate Dead: Summons multiple undead minions at once.
Raise Dead: Raises an undead minion
Unholy Frenzy: Sends a target into a rage, increasing attack rate (ranged)
Death and Decay: Corrupts the targeted ground, dealing shadow damage in an area (ranged)
Vampiric Aura: Dealing damage heals the DK and allies
Unholy Blight: Summons a swarm of undead insects that infects the target with disease (ranged)

What's the difference?

Blizzard is all about laying the groundwork for things. A big hurdle they would need to work around before the introduction of Shadowlands is that pretty much...all Necromancers are evil. Now we're seeing from Shadowlands and the Maldraxxus that this isn't true. Blizzard would be a fool to not introduce a class next expansion, and I still fully believe that our time in Shadowlands is going to have a huge influence on how death (and the undead) currently works in Azeroth.

Except Blizzard has stated that a new class must match the theme of the expansion. Are you saying that we're going to have another death expansion after this one?

And yet, Paladins and Priests use holy magic in roughly the same way, Warlocks and Demon Hunters use chaos magic the same way, Shamans, Mages, and Warlocks all use fire magic the same way, Death Knights and Mages use frost magic the same way, etc etc

You're talking specs and single magic schools. Death Knights and Necromancers would share the entire class theme.

Your first mistake would be to assume a Necromancer poison spec would be all about dots. Poison can be used in a channeled spray; it's used to burn, bomb, gas, puddle, create oozes, and so on - Diseases do none of these.

But a Death Knight could. A DK could have it's ghoul channel spray diseased bile on a target, there's a new talent called Hellchains that burns a victim in-between the DK and it's pet. A minion could burst into a gas, or a puddle, and the DK has created oozes in the past. So why not just give it to the existing DK class?

And you can keep pretending that the only difference that you believe separates Priests and Paladins (shadow magic), couldn't be done the same for Death Knights and Necromancers (nature magic).

Well like I said, Paladins can never do Shadow magic because it goes against their class concept. However, a DK can do plague damage which includes nature. So yeah, that's a big difference between the two.

Listen, I'm not trying to poo poo on your idea here, I'm just saying that the difference you carved out for the Necromancer is simply forced, and its forced because you're purposely trying to avoid the 900 lb Gorilla in the room; the existing classes eating away at your design space.

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With that logic:

WotLK: Death Knight

Cata: nothing

MoP: Monk

WoD: nothing

Legion: Demon Hunter

BfA: nothing

Shadowlands: uhmmm

Which is kind of the point; In Blizzard's view, no class concept fit the theme of Shadowlands, an expansion about death.

Pre WotLK, Death Knights were only humans (with Orc souls in W2)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Thane_Korth%27azz

Pre MoP, Monks were only Pandaren.

Even before their formal introduction as a playable class in Mists of Pandaria, several monk NPCs and mobs already existed, albeit with different gear and abilities than those playable now. Examples of such old-school monks include the gnome Lefty, the blood elf Eramas Brightblaze, Condemned Monks, Scarlet Monks, Crimson Monks (now Risen Monks), Auchenai Monks, and Argent Monks. Note that some of them have been updated since, but pictures of their older appearances are still archived on their respective pages.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Monk

[cocomen2]

Yes, because DKs skipped the Alchemy part and utilized shadow magic to spread diseases. The point is there are Necromancers, and there are mad scientists. The two are not the same thing.

1)Once again you had stroke? in fantasy world of warcraft where Necromancy is forbidden , and everyone says to mages :
"Beware to not delve into Necromancy!"
and of course some of these mad scientists (who study forbidden things with some mad idea behind) alike , just went to DO IT.

The two are not the same thing YES , but one ->LEADS to second one
(normal citizens no all about rising zombies or becoming a lich to spend eternity as monstrosity)




2) Engineer Gazlowe , The Tinker (where Tinker is just title for best and most profund engineer among goblins and gnomes)

To make Tinker playable class you need get rid of engineering in same way like they did with first aid.

Its funny when you say that Necromancer is Death knight and they are same ( while its two different units with different background) , while Engineer and Tinker its same guy but you say that they different .... its just definition of Insanity.

[Ielenia]

Yes, WC3 characters. Not WC3 the game.

The point still stands. World of Warcraft does not exist to "push Warcraft 3 characters".

Again, we don't need to understand the "why" to recognize that it is happening.

Oh, we definitely need to know the "why" if we are to use it as a rule for class creation.

Then please explain from a gameplay standpoint how a Necromancer spreading AoE nature DoT is going to be any different than a DK disease dealing shadow DoT.

The same way in which a priest healing with holy magic is different than a paladin healing with holy magic. In the same way that a warlock dealing damage with fire is different than a mage dealing damage with fire. In the way that a warlock spreading shadow DoTs is different than a shadow priest spreading shadow dots. Etc, etc.

No, the selling point of a Necromancer is a spell caster than can raise undead minions.

I'll repeat: Teriz, please don't try to speak for other people. You don't get to tell us what the selling points of the necromancer are. That is so condescendingly arrogant of you. And it borders on trolling, at this point.

You don't get to say what is a selling point for us. By that same argument, I can assert that the "selling point" of the tinker is technology, and we have engineering already, so we don't need a tech class. Because engineering gives you access to technology already.

Yeah, let's keep pretending that Shadow and Discipline Priest doesn't exist.....

Who said anything about them not existing? I simply pointed out that your logic dictates that "healing with holy magic" is somehow fundamentally different" than "healing with holy magic", considering your argument was that the paladin and priest "do different things". You cannot deny that there is one-hundred percent theme overlap with the holy/pious theme between priests and paladins. And priests using shadow magic is meaningless because you also assert as meaningless the idea of the necromancer having access to a spell type that the death knight does not.

If you say so.

For someone who loves to assert their own claims by basically saying "because I say so", you sure love to dismiss what other people say with "if you say so", don't you?

Where's the Tinker's claw pack in Engineering?

I'll repeat, word for word, what I said that you dishonestly ignored:
"Abilities are irrelevant considering I was talking about the concepts themselves, and the engineering profession adheres to a 'T' the lore description of the WC3 tinker hero regarding technology malfunctions."
I am talking about the concept. I specifically mentioned the propensity for malfunctions. At no point I mentioned the claw pack, or that the engineering profession encompasses every single minute detail about the Warcraft 3 unit.

And within all 3 expansion classes.

Nope. Your own mind, only. Because you haven't proven that this "pedigree" you speak of matters one iota for class design.

But the expansion classes do, and the next class we're getting is an expansion class.

Then you should prove beyond shadow of doubt that the expansion classes go through a different iteration process than the vanilla classes. Which you cannot.

[Teriz]

To make Tinker playable class you need get rid of engineering in same way like they did with first aid.

No you don't. What made first aid obsolete is that they gave every class the ability to heal themselves while questing, making first aid pointless.

Its funny when you say that Necromancer is Death knight and they are same ( while its two different units with different background) , while Engineer and Tinker its same guy but you say that they different .... its just definition of Insanity.

I say that because the Death Knight possesses the Necromancer's abilities from WC3, and is in fact a Necromancer in of itself. Meanwhile, the engineering profession contains none of the abilities or attributes of the Tinker hero from HotS or WC3.

[Your Mommy]

Tinker is the only available AND right option right now.
I don't see Necromancer happening as a class, however it can still be the Death Knight's fourth specialization if they decide to go that route.

[Teriz]

The point still stands. World of Warcraft does not exist to "push Warcraft 3 characters".

All of Blizzard's games exist to push their franchise characters. Quite a few characters from Warcraft 3 (and those who came about in WoW) are franchise characters for Blizzard. Again, it makes sense for Blizzard to structure their classes after franchise characters instead of creating something out of left field that fans don't have a connection to or recognize. Which is why you create a Monk class based on the Pandaren and Chen Stormstout instead of a generic Monk class based on some random bald human.

Oh, we definitely need to know the "why" if we are to use it as a rule for class creation.

We need to know why Blizzard uses popular characters from Warcraft to create Warcraft classes?

Seriously?

The same way in which a priest healing with holy magic is different than a paladin healing with holy magic. In the same way that a warlock dealing damage with fire is different than a mage dealing damage with fire. In the way that a warlock spreading shadow DoTs is different than a shadow priest spreading shadow dots. Etc, etc.

Not really, since the DK concept could very easily handle a "poison" concept if Blizzard wanted it to.

I'll repeat: Teriz, please don't try to speak for other people. You don't get to tell us what the selling points of the necromancer are. That is so condescendingly arrogant of you. And it borders on trolling, at this point.

Except that's exactly why people want a Necromancer. This notion that you want a Necromancer to shoot poison spray guns is BS.

You don't get to say what is a selling point for us. By that same argument, I can assert that the "selling point" of the tinker is technology, and we have engineering already, so we don't need a tech class. Because engineering gives you access to technology already.

The difference being that you can't quest, dungeon run, raid, etc. using only engineering items. Meanwhile, you're quite capable of doing that with the DK class and its necromancy. So yeah, bad comparison is bad.

Who said anything about them not existing? I simply pointed out that your logic dictates that "healing with holy magic" is somehow fundamentally different" than "healing with holy magic", considering your argument was that the paladin and priest "do different things". You cannot deny that there is one-hundred percent theme overlap with the holy/pious theme between priests and paladins. And priests using shadow magic is meaningless because you also assert as meaningless the idea of the necromancer having access to a spell type that the death knight does not.

Except DKs do have access to Nature magic via Plague.

I'll repeat, word for word, what I said that you dishonestly ignored:
"Abilities are irrelevant considering I was talking about the concepts themselves, and the engineering profession adheres to a 'T' the lore description of the WC3 tinker hero regarding technology malfunctions."
I am talking about the concept. I specifically mentioned the propensity for malfunctions. At no point I mentioned the claw pack, or that the engineering profession encompasses every single minute detail about the Warcraft 3 unit.

The Claw Pack is also a concept.

Nope. Your own mind, only. Because you haven't proven that this "pedigree" you speak of matters one iota for class design.

See post #1028

[username993720]

And my whole point is that we don't know that new classes have to be based off Warcraft 3 hero units. Like I said, multiple times: it's needlessly restrictive to limit their creativity to only what's inside the Warcraft 3 game, and it's also a rather nonsensical argument when you see at all the things they added into WoW that did not exist in Warcraft 3, like the continent of Pandaria, the jinyu/ankoan, the mogu, alternate Draenor, etc.

Based on their pattern, they are. Pandaren and Pandaria are based on The Pandaren of Warcraft 3, they just expanded the mythology of asian cultures. Draenor was already in lore, they just added the Iron theme to it. I didn't say content is restricted to Waracraft 3. i said, classes, mostly, are (based on their pattern). could they break it? they might. like allied races. can i predict what they're gonna do? no. i can just base my speculation on existing Blizzard patterns.

Blood Elf Demon Hunters were established in TBC, and set up in WC3. Non-human DKs were set up before WotLK. We had non-Pandaren Monks for years in WoW before MoP. Every Warden we've run across has been NE.



Different ability.



Yeah, I never supported the entrance of Demon Hunters into WoW, but they still had more material to work with than Wardens. The Warden is an even narrower concept than Demon Hunters.



Yes, which is why Metamorphosis was removed for Warlocks and placed in the DH class. So now with Demon Hunters you have this quick agile fighter that can transform into a huge hulking demon. Its a unique enough concept to carry a class. The Warden doesn't have that. The Warden is just an assassin who uses shadow magic and poison. It doesn't have that "Oh shit" ability like Demon Hunters had, which is why Rogues are more than enough to handle their concept.



Well they didn't pull the entire Monk class out of their ass. They took the Brewmaster concept, the Pandaren theme, and the general Martial arts tropes, and crafted a fairly unique melee class. However, the difference is that we didn't have a true Martial arts class, so the Monk filled a gap in the class lineup. There's no gaps for the Warden to fill.

Pandaren Monk style is unique to the Pandaren. other Monk races were not Pandaren-styled. It, clearly, states in lore that Pandaren developed those methods and taught other slave races their method. come Mists of Pandaria, they taught the Alliance and Horde races. The playable Human monk, or Draenei monk are not Scarlet Monks or Auchenai Monks.

as for the Warden, this is what the RPG has to say:
"They are night elf only, but it is conceivable that a night elf could teach the skills of a warden to a member of another race, but so far as anyone knows, this has never been done. All current wardens are members of the Alliance, though it is possible that a warden might break from the Alliance after learning her abilities. Night elves certainly don't train wardens who are not loyal to them."

Up until BFA, Wardens were unique to the Alliance. come BFA, we now have Dark Wardens in service of Horde forsaken. With Legion, Cordana introduced Fel Wardens. so, yes. Blizzard comes up with new lore and ways to expand a class' racial diversity. the Wowpedia disambiguation page even says "Warden - Jailors of various races in Warcraft lore", for some reason.

The Death Coil is not a Different ability. We've already been through this:
"Death Coil is an iconic death knight ability that was first used by the Death Knight unit in Warcraft II, and was subsequently used by Death Knights in Warcraft III, and the tabletop RPG. In World of Warcraft, a variation of [Death Coil] was given to the warlock class."

based on what? TBC? The Illidari? the Wardens were a reputation faction in Legion, Maiev is part of the Watchers and during Cata they had a Shadow Wardens sub-group.

Same argument with the Wardens. "which is why Fan of Knives, Blink and Shadostrike (or, Poisoned knife) was removed from the Rogue/Mage and placed in a Warden class." If it was good enough in Warlocks, they shouldn't have removed it (according to your logic). Demon Hunters are just rogues with a Warlock metamorphosis ability, what's unique in that? (again, your general state of mind).

Wardens are not merely Assassins. Assassins murder people for political or religious reasons. they are in no way, shape or form jailors. they do not seek out justice. they do not hunt criminals, and they do not jail them. a Warden is, basically, a prison manager. are rogues that? do they use an Umbra Crescent? You want an "Oh Shit" ability?:
"Vengeance (Ultimate)
Creates a powerful avatar that summons invulnerable spirits from friendly corpses to attack your enemies.

When the Avatar of Vengeance dies, the spirits vanish.

There you go.

One single Pandaren Brewmaster hero unit. that is all it took. and they didn't just base it, simply, on martial arts. they came up with a whole chinese influence for it. Mists, Medicine, August Celestials Statues and pets. these were, in no way, taken from existing sources, like a Diablo Monk, an RPG monk or an existing WoW monk.

Yes, there is a gap to fill. as i already explained, Rogues are not Wardens, not jailors, they do not seek justice, they do not hunt criminals and they do not use Umbra Crescents. you are over simplifying everything all the time. "Wardens are just assassins with poison and shadow". no, they are not. "Demon Hunters are not just Rogues with Warlock abilities" and your precious Tinker is not just "a Hunter with an engineering profession". notice the distinctions.

I'm not reading any of this. Try not writing a god damned novel next time.

only the first half was for you
and, of course you don't read it. you'd rather make up empty claims and statements, backed up by nothing, than have a serious conversation.

[Ielenia]

All of Blizzard's games exist to push their franchise characters.

That's not what a franchise is, or how it works. "Warcraft 3" is not a franchise. "Warcraft" is. That's like saying "The Lord of the Rings" is not a franchise, "The Two Towers" is. That "Harry Potter" is not a franchise, "Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix" is.

And games (and books and comics and movies) do not exist to "push franchise characters". They exist to push the franchise.

We need to know why Blizzard uses popular characters from Warcraft to create Warcraft classes?

Seriously?

I'll repeat what I wrote that you ignored:
"Oh, we definitely need to know the "why" if we are to use it as a rule for class creation."

Not really, since the DK concept could very easily handle a "poison" concept if Blizzard wanted it to.

This is beyond dishonest and downright trolling of you, considering you continue to say that necromancers cannot have a poison spec "because we see no necromancers using poisons", but now you're granting the death knights could "easily handle a poison concept" considering "poison" not fitting the class concept, at all.

Except that's exactly why people want a Necromancer. This notion that you want a Necromancer to shoot poison spray guns is BS.

You of all people don't get to speak for other people about what they want, much less what they want in a necromancer class, considering your constant disregard for pools and population evidence against your claims about "what people want in a tinker". And also, the second part of your quote? The only "bullshit" there is your misrepresentation, considering I never said anything about wanting a necromancer to "shoot poison spray guns".

The difference being that you can't quest, dungeon run, raid, etc. using only engineering items. Meanwhile, you're quite capable of doing that with the DK class and its necromancy. So yeah, bad comparison is bad.

You can't queue as a healer as a death knight. Just sayin'. But on a more serious note and to the topic itself: you don't get to tell anyone what they want in a fan concept they like. You of all people have demonstrated that you don't speak for anyone, even for other tinker fans.

Except DKs do have access to Nature magic via Plague.

No. No, they do not. That's just downright stupid logic. They have one ability that deals Plague damage, and one summon that deals Plague damage. They do not have access to poison magic.

The Claw Pack is also a concept.

I'll repeat, word for word, what I said that you dishonestly ignored:
"Abilities are irrelevant considering I was talking about the concepts themselves, and the engineering profession adheres to a 'T' the lore description of the WC3 tinker hero regarding technology malfunctions."
I am talking about the concept. I specifically mentioned the propensity for malfunctions. At no point I mentioned the claw pack, or that the engineering profession encompasses every single minute detail about the Warcraft 3 unit.

See post #1028

Which is a bunch of useless data. Again, this "pedigree" you speak of that is required for class design does not exist anywhere in the world except in your own head.

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Based on their pattern, they are. Pandaren and Pandaria are based on The Pandaren of Warcraft 3, they just expanded the mythology of asian cultures. Draenor was already in lore, they just added the Iron theme to it. I didn't say content is restricted to Waracraft 3. i said, classes, mostly, are (based on their pattern). could they break it? they might. like allied races. can i predict what they're gonna do? no. i can just base my speculation on existing Blizzard patterns.

That's the whole point.

We cannot predict what Blizzard will do.

Remember "trends"? All player classes were supposed to have 3 specs, but then the demon hunter came along. Every two expansions we get a new class, but then the Shadowlands expansion did not add any new class. We're supposed to have one new race for every faction every two expansions, but then MoP came along with the pandaren. We're also supposed to get two new races in a given expansion... then BfA came along. Etc, etc. We cannot predict what Blizzard will do. That's why saying "your fan concept does not have a WC3 unit to base itself on" or "your class doesn't have a currently relevant lore hero in WoW" or inventing arbitrary "pedigrees" that are required for class creation, or other similar stuff against other people's fan class concepts basically amounts to nothing but trolling because it's meaningless against the ideas.

Not saying you are doing it, but it is what Teriz has been doing since forever.

[Teriz]

That's not what a franchise is, or how it works. "Warcraft 3" is not a franchise. "Warcraft" is. That's like saying "The Lord of the Rings" is not a franchise, "The Two Towers" is. That "Harry Potter" is not a franchise, "Harry Potter and the Order of Phoenix" is.

I said franchise characters, not franchise in of itself. Arthas, the Lich King, Chen Stormstout and Illidan Stormrage are all Warcraft franchise characters from WC3, and they all formed the basis of the expansion classes.

And games (and books and comics and movies) do not exist to "push franchise characters". They exist to push the franchise.

I never said otherwise.

I'll repeat what I wrote that you ignored:
"Oh, we definitely need to know the "why" if we are to use it as a rule for class creation."

Again we don't, because it's obvious that they're doing it.

This is beyond dishonest and downright trolling of you, considering you continue to say that necromancers cannot have a poison spec "because we see no necromancers using poisons", but now you're granting the death knights could "easily handle a poison concept" considering "poison" not fitting the class concept, at all.

If poison doesn't fit the DK concept, it doesn't fit the Necromancer concept either.

You of all people don't get to speak for other people about what they want, much less what they want in a necromancer class, considering your constant disregard for pools and population evidence against your claims about "what people want in a tinker". And also, the second part of your quote? The only "bullshit" there is your misrepresentation, considering I never said anything about wanting a necromancer to "shoot poison spray guns".

The popular Necromancer concept from Amonsentheur (whatever) featured a poison spray gun concept, and you didn't seem to have an issue with it.

You can't queue as a healer as a death knight. Just sayin'. But on a more serious note and to the topic itself: you don't get to tell anyone what they want in a fan concept they like. You of all people have demonstrated that you don't speak for anyone, even for other tinker fans.

You can queue as a tank that heals themselves using the blood of others. That's fairly close, far more fitting, and it even uses the same magic school.

No. No, they do not. That's just downright stupid logic. They have one ability that deals Plague damage, and one summon that deals Plague damage. They do not have access to poison magic.

They also had this ability in Legion which also did Plague damage;

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unholy_Mutation

Oh look, DKs can create oozes and slimes too, and they don't even need alchemy to do it.....

I'll repeat, word for word, what I said that you dishonestly ignored:
"Abilities are irrelevant considering I was talking about the concepts themselves, and the engineering profession adheres to a 'T' the lore description of the WC3 tinker hero regarding technology malfunctions."
I am talking about the concept. I specifically mentioned the propensity for malfunctions. At no point I mentioned the claw pack, or that the engineering profession encompasses every single minute detail about the Warcraft 3 unit.

Again, you're talking about concepts. The Claw Pack is a Tinker concept not present in the profession. Further I wouldn't consider it a "minute detail" since it's one of the defining characteristics of the Tinker concept.

Which is a bunch of useless data. Again, this "pedigree" you speak of that is required for class design does not exist anywhere in the world except in your own head.

Ah, so evidence is now "a useless bunch of data"?

Hilarious.

[VinceVega]

Every thread about classes ends up with the same people advocating for the shitty tinker class like zelots.

I take the necromancer 10 times over gimmicky annoying squicky classes.

But the best would be no new class at all. Give EVERY class another spec. Most a fourth DHs a third and druids a fifth.

[Ielenia]

I said franchise characters, not franchise in of itself.

Again, that's not how franchises work.

I never said otherwise.

You said they exist to push the franchise's characters, not the franchise itself.

Again we don't, because it's obvious that they're doing it.

And it's "obvious" that a dice that lands twelve times in a row on the same side is loaded, right?

If poison doesn't fit the DK concept, it doesn't fit the Necromancer concept either.

If shadow doesn't fit the paladin concept, it doesn't fit the priest concept either. That is your logic.

The popular Necromancer concept from Amonsentheur (whatever) featured a poison spray gun concept, and you didn't seem to have an issue with it.

So what if I seemingly don't have any issue with it? That doesn't mean I want a necromancer class to have "poison guns". The simple fact my own necromancer concept does not have "poison guns" should have clued you in on that.

You can queue as a tank that heals themselves using the blood of others. That's fairly close,

No, that's far from the same thing. Try asking a M+ group that is currently looking for a healer to go as a blood DK by saying "don't worry, guys! I can heal myself!" and see how far you'll go.

They also had this ability in Legion which also did Plague damage;

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unholy_Mutation

Oh look, DKs can create oozes and slimes too, and they don't even need alchemy to do it.....

One more summonable doing plague damage doesn't change my argument in the slightest: death knights do not have access to poison magic. And no, Teriz, just because the overwhelming majority of poisons deal nature damage and less than a handful of DK spells deal PLAGUE damage doesn't mean both are "the same thing" for doing nature damage. Otherwise that's like saying mages and shamans have access to demonic magic because they deal fire damage therefore the warlock class should not exist. The demon hunter abilities deal all kinds of damage, so none of the other classes in the game should exist. The demon hunter should be the sole class in WoW by your logic. Because demon hunters can heal themselves with blood magic, nature magic, holy magic, fire magic, shadow magic, wind magic, poison magic, etc, and can deal damage with blood magic, nature magic, holy magic, fire magic, shadow magic, wind magic, poison magic, etc, and even tank with blood magic, nature magic, holy magic, fire magic, shadow magic, wind magic, poison magic, etc.

Again, you're talking about concepts.

No, Teriz. I explicitly detailed what I was talking about not once, not twice, but three times. You constantly ignoring what I'm saying and supplanting it with your own strawman only shows how dishonest you are.

Ah, so evidence is now "a useless bunch of data"?

Hilarious.

Because it is useless for what you're trying to argue: that it is a mandatory rule to have a Warcraft 3 hero unit to be able to make new classes from.

[Teriz]

Again, that's not how franchises work.

Again, I said franchise characters.

You said they exist to push the franchise's characters, not the franchise itself.

Where did I say that?

And it's "obvious" that a dice that lands twelve times in a row on the same side is loaded, right?

Here you go comparing clear developer decisions to a roll of the dice again.

Gee, I wonder what possible benefit there would be for Blizzard to attach new WoW classes to major franchise characters.....

If shadow doesn't fit the paladin concept, it doesn't fit the priest concept either. That is your logic.

Uh it doesn't. Which is why Paladins don't use shadow at all, and they never have as a class. And yeah, the covenant ability doesn't count.

So what if I seemingly don't have any issue with it? That doesn't mean I want a necromancer class to have "poison guns". The simple fact my own necromancer concept does not have "poison guns" should have clued you in on that.

Yeah, but your concept isn't the only one floating around, and most concepts I see the concept of the undead alchemist with various types of poison-based tech.

No, that's far from the same thing. Try asking a M+ group that is currently looking for a healer to go as a blood DK by saying "don't worry, guys! I can heal myself!" and see how far you'll go.

Same general concept though; Using Blood Magic to heal. You're just using Blood Magic to heal the DK to allow tanking instead of using it to heal the group.

One more summonable doing plague damage doesn't change my argument in the slightest: death knights do not have access to poison magic.

Proof of concept, since one idea I see floating around is the concept of utilizing alchemic poisons to create oozes and slimes. However the DK can create oozes and slimes from their diseases, further proving that the concepts already exist to some extent in the existing DK class. Also this is yet another example of a DK utilizing plague damage, which has a nature component and can easily be expanded upon. I mean, why create an entirely new class that uses alchemy to create aberrations when you can just have the DK class do it via the Unholy spec? We can expand this to include other applications of "poison" within your Necromancer concepts as well.

And no, Teriz, just because the overwhelming majority of poisons deal nature damage and less than a handful of DK spells deal PLAGUE damage doesn't mean both are "the same thing" for doing nature damage. Otherwise that's like saying mages and shamans have access to demonic magic because they deal fire damage therefore the warlock class should not exist. The demon hunter abilities deal all kinds of damage, so none of the other classes in the game should exist. The demon hunter should be the sole class in WoW by your logic. Because demon hunters can heal themselves with blood magic, nature magic, holy magic, fire magic, shadow magic, wind magic, poison magic, etc, and can deal damage with blood magic, nature magic, holy magic, fire magic, shadow magic, wind magic, poison magic, etc, and even tank with blood magic, nature magic, holy magic, fire magic, shadow magic, wind magic, poison magic, etc.

Yeah, the big difference here is that the Demon Hunter has a different theme than all of those classes. The DK and the Necromancer on the other hand share the same theme, even down to the same schools of magic. It's pretty funny watching you attempt to hand wave this away when it's fairly obvious that a DK utilizing Plague magic is in the same wheelhouse as your Necromancer using Poison. We could even take the poison abilities you created for your Necromancer concept and just call it "Plague" instead of "Poison" and they could do the exact same effect, since both utilize nature damage.

Because it is useless for what you're trying to argue: that it is a mandatory rule to have a Warcraft 3 hero unit to be able to make new classes from.

I never said it was a mandatory rule. I'm saying that it is a clear design choice that Blizzard has done over and over again, and that gives it a high likelihood of happening for a fourth expansion class.