WoW designer quits after 13 years, says he's 'unhappy with the state of the game'

[larissa895]

I think in a virtual world, in an MMO, really the players are the story.

Game designer Chris Kaleiki was an employee of Blizzard for 13 years, and in that time worked on World of Warcraft PvP, class design (in particular the monk), and its Ashran zone, among others. He's been there so long he's got two characters and an item named after him. But this year Kaleiki left Blizzard, and in a 15-minute video posted to YouTube he explains why.

"For a while now, probably too long, I've just been unhappy with the state of the game," Kaleiki says, noting that the addition of Classic highlighted the differences between its vision and that of the modern game, which he describes as "a little muddled". An example he gives is the changing importance of guilds.

"I think in Classic the guild's a big deal," he says. "To do anything at endgame you really need to be in a guild. What this does is it creates interdependence among players, where they really need each other in order to be successful. And I think this can feel really restrictive at times, but ultimately what it really does is it creates cohesion, it creates community."

[orsraunia]

"I think in a virtual world, in an MMO, really the players are the story."

This stands true for EvE online and to an extend that no other MMO can reach. But look at the number of EvE's subs... And I am not just talking about absolute numbers, but also about the fact that they have been declining during the past years. Additionally, WoW is not a sandbox kind of game, so you can't really put the above into practice. Not really. It's just something that sounds nice, but it's abstract in reality.

My opinion is what he implies is something that sounds good in theory (to some) but would have an overall negative impact to nowadays WoW. It's something that could work in a niche MMO, but not in a mainstream one. Imposing content restrictions or other gimmicks in order to "force" people into guilds... can it bring an overall positive outcome? No, it can't. Giving small, sensible incentives is enough and we have this. It's wrong to take it further and make people who enjoy playing casually or solo or just unguilded feel that WoW is not a game for them. That's a mistake nowadays.

Guilds (and communities) still matter, they are still beneficial enough and they are better off without members that feel forced to join... Forcing people into guilds with the prospect that they will bond with each other and thank you in the end for "forcing" them is a silly and naive thought. This could work for a small percentage of players, but in overall it would have a strong negative impact.

Just a quick comment, I have no interest in elaborating any further. Those who get it, that the year is not 2004 nor 2005 nor 2006 and that the average WoW player's mentality has changed irreversibly, get it. Those who don't, well, they never will. They are free to play classic. TBC is around the corner and that was the expansion I had the most fun in. But that was many years ago. Would I play it again? No. I'd rather play Shadowlands.

[XDurionX]

Employees leave big companies every day, and most don't make up a story to post on the internet.

[Baneto]

More creative developers with interesting ideas leaving the company is not a good sign.

I hope they get their shit together and stop driving good developers away and do huge layoffs (france).

[Kumorii]

Sounds like it's time for him to move on. I think everyone else should make up their own mind if they enjoy current wow or classic and make decisions accordingly. Thinking something will stay the same for 15 years is ridiculous tbh. Either you enjoy it or you move on.

[Kralljin]

Small reminder on that:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=312454/...riences-in-wow

I think that's a question of accessibility and time investment.... maybe there are other types of games that are able to capture the social experience even more.I would also just observe that as World of Warcraft evolved over the years, it actually kind of became less social, because in an effort to achieve more accessibility, we kind of removed some of the reasons why you need to play with the same group of people over and over.

I think that it takes away some of the reasons for some people of why they play, and why they might want to continue to play.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

If ashran is one of his big accomplishments...no loss here tbh.
Also...did he even play classic? Talking about "forcing" people into guilds and stuff? Classic is full of guilds where there is not much of a real community at all, it's just people logging in for the raid. Also guilds are way bigger, in the 2 guilds I'm in there are so many people who have never even talked to each other. While in my retail guild where we will start playing in SL again actually everyone knows each other, plays m+ and pvp with each other besides raids etc etc. Not saying every classic guild is like that, I know there a also decent ones...but all this "community" nonsense is just rose-tinted glasses talk.
If you really want community, you can have one. Doesn't matter if its retail or classic and I don't see how one of both "forces" you more to than the other.
Like in retail we literally have a community feature and I am in two atm which have a small but awesome pool of likeminded people I had a lot of fun with, since til SL drops many from my guild are taking a break. ^^

That being said, idc who leaves blizzard for those reasons. Why would I care if he is unhappy with the state of the game, when I still have fun playing? I'm gonna enjoy Shadowlands and if there is a point again where I don't, I will take a break...ezpz lemonsqueezy. ^^

[Nnyco]

That video felt to me equally as one of those "IM LEAVING" threads on this website.

[Saltysquidoon]

Employees leave big companies every day, and most don't make up a story to post on the internet.

It's literally on the front page of the website you are posting on. What about it is "made up"?

[Charge me Doctor]

And it's totally fine, in fact, it's great that he left instead of staying to work on what makes him unhappy

Small reminder on that:
https://www.wowhead.com/news=312454/...riences-in-wow

Yeah, Morhaime nailed it back then and people need to be reminded of this. You have to look at whole picture, you are not making a game in a vacuum, you are making a game for everchanging community of people and have to adapt to it

- - - Updated - - -

"I think in Classic the guild's a big deal," he says. "To do anything at endgame you really need to be in a guild. What this does is it creates interdependence among players, where they really need each other in order to be successful. And I think this can feel really restrictive at times, but ultimately what it really does is it creates cohesion, it creates community."

And i want to comment on this specific part - game doesn't change importance of guilds, players do. If players don't want to interact with a guild to a point of it being a second job - they shouldn't be forced into it, they won't keep playing, they'll just leave for something that fits them better. While those who DO want the game to be their second job - they still can play like this, no one stops them, they'll just have very hard time at keeping other players on a leash, because, you know, they can just leave easily for a better experience if your guild sucks balls

[XDurionX]

It's literally on the front page of the website you are posting on. What about it is "made up"?

The Excuse for leaving.

[Relapses]

The Excuse for leaving.

I am often labeled a Blizzard apologist but are you actually so cynical that you think a dude would invent reasons for leaving a company after 13 years just for the attention? It does seem a bit petty but if they are his genuine feelings who the fuck are we to judge him over it?

[Speedlance]

Thats his opinion, many of us enjoy the ease you can get into content in retail. I dont think blizzard need to design the game after people who play 12 hours a day, that playerbase is extremely small. Focus on us who enjoy more blizzard games as well and might play 12 hours of wow in 1 week.

[Arinitty]

*In the same I have been in for 8+ years*
*looks around*

Guess he was an anti-social degenerate that needed the game to hold his hand and force him into a guild. Best reeeeee post in a while though.

[Frozenbeef]

Haven't been in a reading guild since the end of TBC, was just tedious having to play a class I didn't enjoy, sign up for raids, maybe get a spot maybe not, have to sacrifice all other commitments for a few hours a couple nights a week all for raising which isn't the most enjoyable thing.

Being able to log in mess around in goldshire, work towards a goal, do solo content such as mage tower/ visions, do lfr/ bgs when I want group content and log out when I'm bored is much better suited for me.

[Ladey Gags]

Well yeah. WoW is currently a soulless shell of a game that once had substance. It has become a 100% corporate Skinner box with zero emphasis on customer enjoyment, rather predatory FOMO techniques and pixel collection garbage.

The game is trash and has been trash for the last 2 years. There is nothing redeemable about it, and blizzard as a company is failing so WoW will never thrive again. The game is dead, maybe not in playerbase wise, but it is dead in terms of gameplay and actual enjoyment. It is pure trash.

[Arinitty]

Well yeah. WoW is currently a soulless shell of a game that once had substance. It has become a 100% corporate Skinner box with zero emphasis on customer enjoyment, rather predatory FOMO techniques and pixel collection garbage.

The game is trash and has been trash for the last 2 years. There is nothing redeemable about it, and blizzard as a company is failing so WoW will never thrive again. The game is dead, maybe not in playerbase wise, but it is dead in terms of gameplay and actual enjoyment. It is pure trash.

All time high preorders
All time high engagement for the end of expansion

DEAD GAME!

[Ladey Gags]

All time high preorders
All time high engagement for the end of expansion

DEAD GAME!

Did you even read my post? The numbers are irrelevant. The gameplay is utter trash. The soul of the game is gone. The people who made the game the masterpiece that it was are gone. The people remaining are amateurs who have no passion reminiscent to Kosak, morhaime, or metzen. The game was their BABY. It was made with delicate design and true desire to create something people wanted to explore. That is the hallmark of ANY piece of art that is ALIVE, with SOUL. WoW in 2020 lacks ALL of that. It is now purely a monetization scheme that relies on psychologically manipulative mechanics in order to maximize “player engagement”. Modern WoW is NOT art, like games should be.

Therefore, it is dead.

[VinceVega]

Did you even read my post? The numbers are irrelevant. The gameplay is utter trash. The soul of the game is gone. The people who made the game the masterpiece that it was are gone. The people remaining are amateurs who have no passion reminiscent to Kosak, morhaime, or metzen. The game was their BABY. It was made with delicate design and true desire to create something people wanted to explore. That is the hallmark of ANY piece of art that is ALIVE, with SOUL. WoW in 2020 lacks ALL of that. It is now purely a monetization scheme that relies on psychologically manipulative mechanics in order to maximize “player engagement”. Modern WoW is NOT art, like games should be.

Therefore, it is dead.

Sure sure^^
Why do you play it if you despise it that much? That is not even criticism for the hope of change. You basically say they are beyond the point of no return and what? You want to tell us what we are SUPPOSED to find fun? You want to be the party pooper and tell us how shitty the game is we enjoy?


I am still highly exited about everything new in wow and am happy for many changes they did. Did they misstep with the grinds in BfA? Yes. DId they paddel back in SL? Yes. Are ther more gates now than in classic? Yes. Was there anything to do besides rading and pvp in classic? No.

I would not play vanilla anymore. Game mechanics are just to boring imho. So the development and the story is something i, and MANY others actually enjoy.

So how about you go on to something else and let us enjoy stuff instead of trash talking something you hate?

[tmamass]

Did you even read my post? The numbers are irrelevant. The gameplay is utter trash. The soul of the game is gone. The people who made the game the masterpiece that it was are gone. The people remaining are amateurs who have no passion reminiscent to Kosak, morhaime, or metzen. The game was their BABY. It was made with delicate design and true desire to create something people wanted to explore. That is the hallmark of ANY piece of art that is ALIVE, with SOUL. WoW in 2020 lacks ALL of that. It is now purely a monetization scheme that relies on psychologically manipulative mechanics in order to maximize “player engagement”. Modern WoW is NOT art, like games should be.

Therefore, it is dead.

yes the most played mmo is surely dead just because YOU dont like it.... yet u still creep around on a wow fan forum for a game u clearly hate....