blizzard force raiders into pvp... again...

[Glorious Leader]

This is something exclusive to Top 200 raiders. Yes, it is a little bit dumb that PvP is the most efficient way to upgrade in the current climate but it's hardly "forced" as it has been in the past.

Thats interesting. I'd like to tease out the difference. Why was it forced "in the past" but not currently?

[Kauko]

Oh stop crying... PVPers have to do PVE for 16y and do you ever see them crying for that??? Its all WORLD OF WARCRAFT. Its not like you have to play another game.

[ymirsson]

With Bonus Rolls eliminated and loot being reduced to 3 pieces per 20 people, while it being complete unrestrained RNG when it comes to awards - it leads to absolutely ridiculous cases where you have 2 equally contributing raid members have vastly different rewards to show for that. In anecdotal case of our guild we have player A having 5 drops from ~10 mythic boss kills and player B having 0 drops from about the same.

How does this even make sense? That's literally 6 average ilvl gap right there and neither Player B, nor the guild can't even do shit about it to help because there is no Master Looter and there is 0 player agency in this but to pray for better RNG.

And it's not even that player's A fault, she literally felt bad for others this last kill when she got yet another piece which she can't even trade to help less lucky blokes out. It's fucked up.


In BFA, aside from higher loot amount, you had Bonus Rolls - so at least you were personally guaranteed to eventually get something off the raid, even if RNG boss drops completely fucked you. Because coins had bad luck protection at least and you could choose where to roll them too.

Now? We get less loot and no BLP either. So you have shit like this.

I agree that instance loot right now is very scarce, much more then it has been since MoP, i'd reckon.
But all this time, coin rolls never were the answer, i couldn't imagine not taking into account the additional loot created by this mechanic when determining drop rates.
Coin rolls primarily are a feel good mechanic, giving the player some control against the RNG.
So, if we had bonus rolls back, the complaints would shift from "i got nothing from 5 successive kills!" to "i got nothing from 3 kills and 3 bonus rolls!"

[Garybear]

so explain me why every single pve raider have 3-4 226ilvl pvp items if it's not forced by blizzard? why every single competitive pve player multibox 3 char to make 1 hit on arena to farm cap of honor on first weeks etc? this cancer activity that everybody hates forced every time to people that hate it but can't ignore free top items...

Those people aren't forced. They are just impatient and for some reason want to full clear everything asap so they can complain there's not enough max level content. I suppose they are forcing themselves and then complaining that they forced themselves to do it. That's solely their own fault for doing it.

I suppose they could be feeling forced, however the path of least resistance to their goal is likely never going to be exactly what they want to do. There's no way to fix that considering even the people with this shared goal can't agree on the content they would like to do to meet their goal of gearing ASAP.

[david0925]

Oh stop crying... PVPers have to do PVE for 16y and do you ever see them crying for that??? Its all WORLD OF WARCRAFT. Its not like you have to play another game.

uh yes, they cry about that all the time too since Vanilla, and reasonably so. Maybe it's normalized at this point but pvpers complaining about needing to do pve content for gear, and vice versa, are both nothing new, and they do have their points. The introduction of Resilience and then numerous pvp powers and eventually vers were there for that reason; to separate pvp and pve gear so at equal ilvl one is not that great for the other, but with them further streamlining the game stats-wise, that issue became more prominent again.

[cface]

Oh stop crying... PVPers have to do PVE for 16y and do you ever see them crying for that??? Its all WORLD OF WARCRAFT. Its not like you have to play another game.

PvP is a sidedish at best, like petbattles. I would cry just as much if I had to do petbattles for gear. It's just not fun. If blizzard actually gave a crap about pvp, then I wouldn't cry as hard. For now, I get my pvp aspect of gaming in other games.
And pvp is like playing another game, a horrible game developers clearly don't really care much about. Just fix pve gearing, don't try to fix the clown fiesta that is pvp, cause I have no faith in blizz to do that.

[kaminaris]

Blizzard really dropped the ball with loot. And it's not PvP loot fault, blaming PvP vendor is like old man yelling at clouds. The problem is not with PvP loot, problem is that PvE loot system is royally fucked and in my opinion the biggest issue is actually in raiding where you by definition have a very finite amount of attempts at loot per week.

With Bonus Rolls eliminated and loot being reduced to 3 pieces per 20 people, while it being complete unrestrained RNG when it comes to awards - it leads to absolutely ridiculous cases where you have 2 equally contributing raid members have vastly different rewards to show for that. In anecdotal case of our guild we have player A having 5 drops from ~10 mythic boss kills and player B having 0 drops from about the same.

How does this even make sense? That's literally 6 average ilvl gap right there and neither Player B, nor the guild can't even do shit about it to help because there is no Master Looter and there is 0 player agency in this but to pray for better RNG.

And it's not even that player's A fault, she literally felt bad for others this last kill when she got yet another piece which she can't even trade to help less lucky blokes out. It's fucked up.


In BFA, aside from higher loot amount, you had Bonus Rolls - so at least you were personally guaranteed to eventually get something off the raid, even if RNG boss drops completely fucked you. Because coins had bad luck protection at least and you could choose where to roll them too.

Now? We get less loot and no BLP either. So you have shit like this.

Yep, finally people understands what I said 6 months ago. This does and will happen.

As for PvP I think that it was mistake to merge pvp with pve gear. While I don't agree that pvp stats such as resilience were a proper fix to a problem, that problem did exist and it was some form of fix to that. Now once you realize how fucked a single gearing path is, you realize how much of a mess is a whole loot system.

[erifwodahs]

Or you know realise you don't need that extra 6 levels since they will only add 0.1% dps.

oh boy...

[ClassicPeon]

Oh stop crying... PVPers have to do PVE for 16y and do you ever see them crying for that??? Its all WORLD OF WARCRAFT. Its not like you have to play another game.

Its a pve game.

Not much more to say.

[czarek]

1st of all no one force anyone to anything. For the 2nd im playin PVE and im fine without PVP at all. Raiding and doin myth+ I dont feel i need to PVPin at all. You do play PVP just stick to it. You play PVE just stick to it. If u enjoy both play both. PVP cap ilvl gear does not made u pro in PVE.

[Critical92]

The solution is very simple. We had that system in wod. Scale the itemlvl of your gear according to what you do and where said item came from.
You take your mythic pve items into arena and they lose 20 itemlvls. With pvp equip the same. We also have warmode so pvp gear can have its original itemlvl in open world too. Blizz needs to finally, once and for all separate the 2 gamemodes. I don't say that the gear should be totally useless, but mythic pve and high rating pvp gear should have no use in the highest forms of the other gamemode.

And yeah, m+ loot is garbage now. Blizz went a bit too far with the loot reduce. 20man mythic had 5 items in the past, now it's 3.

SL is not that bad but like always there are some things that really sting.

[crazyswayzee]

Didnt read anything here but how come that every mythic+ boy has a gear score of 210+ and me and alot of pvp pro's who get the highest reward since the Start of the season are hard stuck at 200-205 (when you only do pvp). I have no problem with the gear difference but pls can the mythic+ boys stop saying that they need to do pvp?

Edit: like 2-3 ID's later i must correct myself: shaman has now 216gs (duelist rank), druid has 212gs (rival rank) and its easier for me to target the parts so in the long term its more comfortable with pvp i guess if you can achieve the ranks to upgrade the gear. i really like it rn.

[Recovery]

so explain me why every single pve raider have 3-4 226ilvl pvp items if it's not forced by blizzard? why every single competitive pve player multibox 3 char to make 1 hit on arena to farm cap of honor on first weeks etc? this cancer activity that everybody hates forced every time to people that hate it but can't ignore free top items...

Blizzard literally said before the expansion even dropped that "in order to be as efficient as possible, you will need to partake in all 3 competitive aspects of the game." (im paraphrasing as i dont remember the exact quote, but it was pretty much that. lol

This was their intention. If you want to have the best of the best of everything, you will need to PVP, mythic+, and raid. In my opinion, that is how it should be. PVP players can not get full BIS from pvp alone. Literally, no class can. Why would it be any different for pve?

Being in a top 500 raid guild promotes the need to have the best of the best of everything. This is why those players are obtaining pvp gear. However, if youre in a guild that will be downing the last boss of mythic castle a month before the next tier, im sure there is no need at all for you to grind pvp gear. You will be just fine without it.

[Kauko]

Its a pve game.

Not much more to say.

With PVP content. Not much more to say either.

[keldarepewpew]

How deeply exagarated by op. 100% chance he is complaining about needing to pvp in order to progress his normal raids ZzzzZZZz. High end players dont care. My top 100 guild farms mythic 14s and ignores pvp entirely but here comes the normal guy who feels forced kekW.

[ztn]

With PVP content. Not much more to say either.

so it's wrong when 5% time invested in cancer sidesystem gameplay you don't like rewards you more then 95% time of m+ and rainding?

https://youtu.be/ujr3KV2oY5k

he spen 95% time raiding and mythic+ and 5% time pvp. he now 220ivl and half of his items is from pvp.

- - - Updated - - -

How deeply exagarated by op. 100% chance he is complaining about needing to pvp in order to progress his normal raids ZzzzZZZz. High end players dont care. My top 100 guild farms mythic 14s and ignores pvp entirely but here comes the normal guy who feels forced kekW.

you can linke me your top100 guild and i will find you that half of guild have several 220ivl pvp items...

oh it's just a troll

Join DateMay 2019
Posts475

[Baconeggcheese]

Based on raider.io I have completed 23 over +10 keys and because of this amazing loot system I was totally forced into PVP to replace my 171 weapons.
Currently stuck with 200 conquest weapon and 184 honour weapon still waiting for ANY weapon to drop from any of m+ keys

https://raider.io/characters/us/barthilas/Cptsnuggles

I find it kinda humorous that you're completing 10+ keys consistently and this is somehow an issue you feel forced into.

[Venziir]

Imagine ignoring pvp in a game called world of WARcraft

It's almost been 16 years and still this argument is a thing............

[erifwodahs]

Nothing wrong with pvp gearing overall, it's just how much easier it is to get higher grade loot. 1.6k rating is easy af, 1.8k is easy if you have half brain and and actual comp which works (double rogue lol) .

[seventysix]

Can someone direct me to where I get 1 piece of 216 loot every 5 minutes? I'm 1800 and I've gotten 3 items so far at 220, and it takes like 7k honor to upgrade each 1 on top of conquest.