1. #6401
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Sometimes I honestly wonder if WoW going F2P would be the right call. People are starting to feel really really really really like "this isn't worth $15 if you don't listen to me!", so going F2P so that it's straight up "the people who give us the most money wiill be the ones listened to" would be a good way to weed out people.
    No, it would not and suggesting such a thing is absurd. People being whiny about what they want shouldn't make a game go F2P. You're gonna get whiny people regardless. Even non Blizzard games some people still feel entitled that their words are worth more then other or rather they are the only person to be listened to. Wow doesn't need and shouldn't go f2P. Their biggest concern is not having bad eggs like........afrasjerkface.
    Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2021-08-30 at 07:02 PM.
    #TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance

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  2. #6402
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Pretty much. Blizzard cannot remove flying completely, if only because some zones need it to function, and there is a massive library of flying mounts that wouldnt be used, but if we hadnt gotten flying back in 6.2 then Blizzard would have needed to actually look at how to reintroduce flying in a way that doesnt have the same inherent flaws as it does. However they ended up caving, which not only made the playerbase expect it back with reneved vigor, but also made it less likely Blizzard will remake it seeing as they already have a compromise solution.
    If Blizzard is going to continue to make maps where getting from point A to somewhere just a little bit north means going on a specific path east, then back around south, then to the west, then north a while, then east, and finally back south to your end point, then they need to have flying.

    OK I'm being dramatic. But too many times, in Legion especially, getting from point A to point B by ground was tedious, annoying, and just flat out unfun.

    Argus was a hassle to get around in because the paths were too populated by mobs, and sometimes non-existent, and the Maw is unpleasant for low geared toons without invis. Korthia though is a good example of how to make a zone that works without flying.

    If they insist on trying to make getting from point A to point B by ground a quest in itself, then the best thing anyone can do in 10.0 is to unsub until flying comes out. If they make ground travel mostly trivial, sometimes a bit tedious or tricky, and occasionally challenging, then I am 100% agreed that flying could - and should - be flat out removed.

  3. #6403
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    If we are being honest, I think one of the reasons flying isn’t in at launch is so that players are forced to check immersive elements the art team put on the ground level of the zones.

    I think they need to accept that the mass majority of players don’t care and just want to kill the dragon, get the treasure and log off as quickly as possible. It’s sad but you can’t force people to want to wander around the world. You can maybe get people to hang in certain areas but not the whole world.
    I think you need to accept that the mass majority don't care if flying is in the game or not., They are fine when it isn't there and are fine when it is. You and all the "flying at lanch" are in the minority as are those who are "no flying ever". Everyone else is "don't care whether flying is in the game or not".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    If Blizzard is going to continue to make maps where getting from point A to somewhere just a little bit north means going on a specific path east, then back around south, then to the west, then north a while, then east, and finally back south to your end point, then they need to have flying.

    OK I'm being dramatic. But too many times, in Legion especially, getting from point A to point B by ground was tedious, annoying, and just flat out unfun.

    Argus was a hassle to get around in because the paths were too populated by mobs, and sometimes non-existent, and the Maw is unpleasant for low geared toons without invis. Korthia though is a good example of how to make a zone that works without flying.

    If they insist on trying to make getting from point A to point B by ground a quest in itself, then the best thing anyone can do in 10.0 is to unsub until flying comes out. If they make ground travel mostly trivial, sometimes a bit tedious or tricky, and occasionally challenging, then I am 100% agreed that flying could - and should - be flat out removed.
    You were being completely over dramatic. I never had any issues getting orund in Legion nor was it ever tedious. People will just call anything that is isn't going directly froim point A to B in a straight line tedious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    The problem with that option is the optics of it. There isnt a single F2P MMO that is considered succesful outside maybe Runescape. There are ones with a fanbase, but to the consumer an MMO going from a subscription to F2P would overwhelmingly be seen as the developers abandoning it.
    Besides, the game has to generate revenue somewho, and I doubt the current in-game shop generates enough cash to keep the game going at a reasonable pace, not to mention that while new expansions are massive revenue sources it's still only a short spike once every 2 years.
    But that spike makes the entire cycle profitable from the beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Just mention furniture. WoD didn't let you place furniture, all those games do.

    You just need a phased area you own and can place and move decorations in. That's it.
    Sims -> You get all that there. The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.

  4. #6404
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I think you need to accept that the mass majority don't care if flying is in the game or not., They are fine when it isn't there and are fine when it is. You and all the "flying at lanch" are in the minority as are those who are "no flying ever". Everyone else is "don't care whether flying is in the game or not".

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    You were being completely over dramatic. I never had any issues getting orund in Legion nor was it ever tedious. People will just call anything that is isn't going directly froim point A to B in a straight line tedious.

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    But that spike makes the entire cycle profitable from the beginning.

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    Sims -> You get all that there. The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.
    You are right. I don't give a fuck if or when flying is coming.

  5. #6405
    Good that wowhead made post about Path of Ascension, but imo they missed biggest problem about it - it's not account wide. I have no problem it's way more challenging than other 3 minigames.

  6. #6406
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.
    You sure about that one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Good that wowhead made post about Path of Ascension, but imo they missed biggest problem about it - it's not account wide. I have no problem it's way more challenging than other 3 minigames.
    I think everything you ever do should be account-wide. Because why the bloody not. Somehow that other game does it and it did not explode yet.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  7. #6407
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Sims -> You get all that there. The is WORLD of Warcraft, not Instance of Warcraft.
    It'd be nice if people could finally come up with an actual argument and not just repeat these dumbfuck statements ad infinitum, every time the topic of housing comes up.

    Trans Rights are Human Rights // Elune Says Queer Rights!


  8. #6408
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Good that wowhead made post about Path of Ascension, but imo they missed biggest problem about it - it's not account wide. I have no problem it's way more challenging than other 3 minigames.
    I dunno, it not being account wide might be a problem I guess, but the underlying problem definitely is that unlike the Abomination Yard and Queen's Conservatory, it doesnt get easier, it cannot be solved with time. It requires not just dedication, but also intimate knowledge of the mechanics of the subsystem itself.

    Getting the weapons from the Abomination Yard was one of the most draining things I have done in the game, but it did only take time. Same with the armor, it was slow and more annoying than it should have been, but if you were diligent in attempting the system you would get everything.

    With the Path of Ascension you cannot avoid going at it the hard way, and unlike the Ember Court there isnt really any option of going for a minimum amount of progress. The NPCs talk big about each loss bringing you closer to victory, but in truth there is no way to get around what is honestly one of the hardest challenges in this expansion.


    I must admit though, I never realized that there was supposed to be a system that made it easier with Renown. That is something that would definitely make sense. The covenant sanctum features should be a fun side activity, not a brutally difficult grind for glory. If I put effort into upgrading that feature I should feel confident I will eventually get the reward, even if it takes a while, not feel like my time is being wasted because the system is harder than the other covenant features for no discernible reason.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #6409
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    snip
    Venthyr requires preparation and logging in every week, NF is just 4 days timegate, Necrolord is grind, Kyrian is challenge with limited attempts. First 3 didn't get easier with time either, cause they have no challenge to begin with.

    And who said this features have to be equaly difficult? Especially in 9.1.5 situation when you progress all 4 at same time. Kyrian stuff is taste of Mage Tower that won't get easier on top of that. But asking us to do exactly same challenge 4 times (or 5 if you did it on other leather than DH) to unlock stuff is just pointless.

    Especially since they already did account wide change to Venthyr stuff. On alts all guests are unlocked, you just have to do party with whatever for few weeks, buy transmog and you're done.

  10. #6410
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    It'd be nice if people could finally come up with an actual argument and not just repeat these dumbfuck statements ad infinitum, every time the topic of housing comes up.
    It's a reasonable argument though people often simplify it. Player Housing is asking for a massive amount of developer time from a lot of teams (The zone team for basic setting if it's more than an interior; the team that does general buildings, doodads, world objects, etc. for hundreds of new assets in addition to their regular duties making stuff for new zones/instances/raids; the primary systems teams which has to code a whole bunch of new stuff for moving around and placing things and the systems to save and load an elaborate instanced collection of objects per character; the profession team to set up potentially whole new professions for it as well as the materials and like (which also require their own new world objects and stuff); the UI/Interface team who has to build the whole front end, tooltips for all the items, etc.)

    It's one thing when you are doing that work in the background during the initial making of the game, or when it's the dedicated content update, but when you're asking for what is realistically as much content as a major content patch from every team but the quest and dungeons ones, in addition to the regular content that has to be put in a given expansion it's a lot.

    The engine was never built with that sort of thing in mind. It's one thing to have something like Garrisons where you have a small set of plots that can accept a handful of building types, it's another thing entirely to have a satisfying housing system where you have hundreds of different objects in a region the player can much more freely place and rotate.

    To be meaningful it also has to see constant support, which means some of those teams (not the UI or Systems, which are foundational, but the art, profession, etc.) have to continue to every patch dedicate additional time to making new items and things for the housing system next to whatever stuff they make for the actual patch.

    Additionally this elaborate system with a ton of required work is a system that inherently encourages players to spend a large amount of time isolated in their own little instanced world building stuff just right, rather than out populating the world and running around. Sure, there are parts of it you can use to get people out into the world (gathering materials or doing activities for various resources or currencies) but those are activities that people are doing anyway for main system resources and materials, so it's not like you're increasing the amount of traffic in the world, you're just getting the normal gathering and running around farming and shit, but with the added caveat that when finished, instead of even running around in circles in Oribos, that person then hearths and completely removes themselves from the world.

    I love building shit in games. I grew up playing build servers in Starsiege: Tribes/Tribes 2, which were like a prototype G-mod. I love adding big mod houses to Elder Scrolls games and filling it with neat weapons and armor and random books and objects to make it feel live a real home. I just don't think it's a great fit for wow. Like if we are talking hypothetical, elaborate systems that involve a ton of dev work, I'd rather see that time and effort go to some sort of world system. Revamp cities/towns to involve server community input with building projects decided collectively/build decay with repeatable resource turn-ins and quests for maintenance, etc. Get people doing shit together out in the world, not hiding away in a personal instance getting their furniture just right.

    I'd rather spend time grinding Drust in Ardenweald to keep some constantly-draining zone-spanning anima slipstream active that players can enter for double mount speed than grinding drust to get the mats for nice table in my house my friends will see a couple times.

  11. #6411
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It's one thing when you are doing that work in the background during the initial making of the game, or when it's the dedicated content update, but when you're asking for what is realistically as much content as a major content patch from every team but the quest and dungeons ones, in addition to the regular content that has to be put in a given expansion it's a lot.
    I always find that with stuff like housing, and in general any new content you first have to start by asking what the least amount of effort Blizzard could realistically put into the game for it is, and whether that version of the system is worth the effort.

    A wrold revamp with every zone being unique, with its own armor sets, and in which every zone has world quests, rares and secrets is of course someting I believe everyone can get behind, but the idea is just not realistic. Consequently, when discussing it the arguments usually end up being on how Blizzard could do it easily and with the least amount of effort.

    With housing its the same. Garrisons are whether players like it or not a version of housing. It's an instanced area that the player is given the ability to customize. There are monuments that are gained from various activities that can eb used to decorate, and a room filled with the archaeological findings you have made.
    Followers you have recruited around the world from various activities shows up, all your favorite pets are roaming around, and there is a stable you can go to where all your favorite mounts are walking around for you to admire.
    If Blizzard made housing there is no way of knowing for sure whether it wouldnt be just a tiny bit better that Garrisons. There is no way of knowing whether interior customization is limited to 3-4 different preset house styles with 2 dedicated trophy spots to show off what you got.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #6412
    In between world revamp and true housing, I'd pick housing.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  13. #6413
    Can someone update me and tell me if there have been any new leaks or interesting datamining in the last days? Has the Fate of Eternity logo been proven fake or still limbo?
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  14. #6414
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    Can someone update me and tell me if there have been any new leaks or interesting datamining in the last days? Has the Fate of Eternity logo been proven fake or still limbo?
    Still limbo. No talk about it at all. I think most are focusing on PTR 9.1.5 being up soon

  15. #6415
    They started pushing WoW blue posts on Monday, so I guess there is chance at least for retail news today.

  16. #6416
    Quote Originally Posted by micwini View Post
    Still limbo. No talk about it at all. I think most are focusing on PTR 9.1.5 being up soon
    Thank you!
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  17. #6417
    Dreadlord Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    They started pushing WoW blue posts on Monday, so I guess there is chance at least for retail news today.
    Let's hope it's up tonight! Can't wait to see the new customizations and mounts <3

  18. #6418
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    Let's hope it's up tonight! Can't wait to see the new customizations and mounts <3
    I’m being pessimistic and thinking the customization pics they showed is actually all of them.

    And are there gonna be new mounts? I didn’t think anything in 9.1.5 added any.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
    Which one of those ropes can I hang myself with

  19. #6419
    Quote Originally Posted by GR8GODZILLAGOD View Post
    I’m being pessimistic and thinking the customization pics they showed is actually all of them.

    And are there gonna be new mounts? I didn’t think anything in 9.1.5 added any.
    I guess in a way the next patch increases the covenant rewards by four times, at least in the sense that if you stikc to a specific covenant or generally have not progressed in other covenant reward structures then the potential rewards have been massively increased.

    Or actually, I just remembered. Legion Timewaling. That should add a mount at least.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  20. #6420
    Epic! Gifdwarf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I guess in a way the next patch increases the covenant rewards by four times.
    This will definitely keep people busy for a while, especially people like me who never bothered farming out all the mounts and pets on other covenants on alts.

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