Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Lady Atia]

The average player won't have reached the level cap within the first week, let alone the reputation for heroics by then. TBC's initial phase has a waaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer lifespan than 9.1 for example. And Ion specifically said the playerbase is overlapping and they want to avoid another Shadowlands release vs. Naxxramas situation. If Ion's words mean anything, they give the players at least 4 weeks between both releases. At least. 6 would be better, by then most players in TBC will have reached cap, done heroics and maybe even cleared Karazhan so the first "down" kicks in. Players can go back to retail, experience 9.1 for a few weeks and then return for phase 2.

Forcing people to make a choice between a completely fresh TBC and leaving it during its high / honeymoon phase (2-3 weeks after launch) to play 9.1 makes not much sense.

Who cares for really easy TBC "progress"? Castle Nathria/S1 is out far too long if they wait another 6-8 weeks ....

Besides that, they are testing 4 more Mythic Bosses this weekend, so it shouldn't take that long anymore. Worst case they can finish testing the raid while 9.1 is already live and on off-season.

[Revamp Man]

Does the Maw really bother you that much? I mean it would be no issue for them to put a bypass in but it's still only like 15 minutes of questing.

It’s the same as every other expansion intro
It’s boring
The escort quests are dumb
It is literally the only reason I only have 3 toons in SL because while it is short it’s still 25-30 minutes of gameplay with half of it being RP

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The average player won't have reached the level cap within the first week, let alone the reputation for heroics by then. TBC's initial phase has a waaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer lifespan than 9.1 for example. And Ion specifically said the playerbase is overlapping and they want to avoid another Shadowlands release vs. Naxxramas situation. If Ion's words mean anything, they give the players at least 4 weeks between both releases. At least. 6 would be better, by then most players in TBC will have reached cap, done heroics and maybe even cleared Karazhan so the first "down" kicks in. Players can go back to retail, experience 9.1 for a few weeks and then return for phase 2.

Forcing people to make a choice between a completely fresh TBC and leaving it during its high / honeymoon phase (2-3 weeks after launch) to play 9.1 makes not much sense.

I think a majority of players will be capped by the end of week 2 simply because of the fact that leveling in tbc content was much faster

There is some overlap but I think you’re taking ion’s words to the extreme meaning instead of “yeah you’ll have that two weeks to level and then you also have 9.1 content to handle”

Week 1 9.1 consists of
New torghast
New dungeon
First two chapters
New zone

I think there’s always a two week gap but I could be wrong. Postponing the 9.1 content for tbc classic is really really dumb because the overlap is small

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Who cares for really easy TBC "progress"? Castle Nathria/S1 is out far too long if they wait another 6-8 weeks ....

Besides that, they are testing 4 more Mythic Bosses this weekend, so it shouldn't take that long anymore. Worst case they can finish testing the raid while 9.1 is already live and on off-season.

We have what 3 more mythic bosses to test??
Sylvanas not being tested at all is going to lead to a shit show

[Nyel]

Who cares for really easy TBC "progress"? Castle Nathria/S1 is out far too long if they wait another 6-8 weeks ....

Besides that, they are testing 4 more Mythic Bosses this weekend, so it shouldn't take that long anymore. Worst case they can finish testing the raid while 9.1 is already live and on off-season.

Who cares? A massive amount of players, most likely more than the ones caring for 9.1 release at this point. TBC launch will generate their revenue spike this quarter, 9.1 won't do much for retail subs one way or another, two or three more weeks of waiting won't change that.

On average content patches take 8-10 weeks to test on the PTR. June 22 is the 10 week mark. That's my earliest bet for 9.1, everything earlier would be horrible for players that play both versions of the game.

[Teriz]

So you're saying things are to bright currently? Thematically, MoP was pretty dark. Much darker than what we're currently dealing with.

Darker in what sense? We weren't navigating Hell, the land of the undead, and a gothic nightmare in MoP. We didn't get someone good and pure like Anduin becoming a murder machine in MoP either. The entire theme of Shadowlands is death, and that's pretty dark stuff. MoP felt like an untouched unexplored continent that we were allowed to explore. I think not having a world ending cosmic threat helped that expansion quite a bit.

[Sondrelk]

Who cares? A massive amount of players, most likely more than the ones caring for 9.1 release at this point. TBC launch will generate their revenue spike this quarter, 9.1 won't do much for retail subs one way or another, two or three more weeks of waiting won't change that.

On average content patches take 8-10 weeks to test on the PTR. June 22 is the 10 week mark. That's my earliest bet for 9.1, everything earlier would be horrible for players that play both versions of the game.

I think you are overestimating just how big the TBC Clasic launch actually is.

Even assuming apathy in the SL playerbase and elation in the Classic one the Retail playerbase is still significantly larger than the Classic one. There are large amounts of players waiting for 9.1, and even if we assume they are not as excited as the average Classic player they are still likely more numerous.
Consider for instance that TBC Classic is not equivalent to the regular Classic servers way back. That one could tout itself as a return of the biggest MMO ever and therefore gain most players who stopped working and want to relive nostalgia, TBC, WotLK or otherwise. TBC meanwhile is likely going to be played by those who are currently playing Classic, can you honestly imagine that players were lukewarm to Classic but are still going to amass in droves for TBC?

TBC might technically be a new expansion, but the dedicated playerbase is also significantly smaller than that of retail. And even if they were equal the need for new content in Shadowlands should outweigh the need for new content in Classic.

[Nyel]

I think you are overestimating just how big the TBC Clasic launch actually is.

Even assuming apathy in the SL playerbase and elation in the Classic one the Retail playerbase is still significantly larger than the Classic one. There are large amounts of players waiting for 9.1, and even if we assume they are not as excited as the average Classic player they are still likely more numerous.
Consider for instance that TBC Classic is not equivalent to the regular Classic servers way back. That one could tout itself as a return of the biggest MMO ever and therefore gain most players who stopped working and want to relive nostalgia, TBC, WotLK or otherwise. TBC meanwhile is likely going to be played by those who are currently playing Classic, can you honestly imagine that players were lukewarm to Classic but are still going to amass in droves for TBC?

TBC might technically be a new expansion, but the dedicated playerbase is also significantly smaller than that of retail. And even if they were equal the need for new content in Shadowlands should outweigh the need for new content in Classic.

And I think you are underestimating the pull factor of TBC. It's the first expansion, it's where two new races / classes were introduced to the game, it's Outland and it's the best time for a raider to come into WoW.

What do we have with Shadowlands? A very starved playerbase that was enduring enough to stick for half a year of Shadowlands without new content. Players that left two or three months ago don't bother with coming back two or three weeks sooner or later. The ones that have waited until now can wait two or three weeks more, it doesn't change anything for them. Shadowlands is in a dire state and an early/mid June release for 9.1 won't have any other effect than 9.1 in July. Only diehard fans are still subbed to retail, the others left months ago.

9.1 will have a very, very short lifetime for everyone besides the usual HC / Mythic raiders. TBC P1 will have a way longer lifetime than 9.1 and there are most likely 2 new phases still coming this year. TBC is the expansion where content was widely available for everyone and that will players keep hooked longer than Classic - in my opinion. There's a reason why so many have fond memories of TBC (although many had fond memories of Vanilla and were seemingly disappointed due to their rose-colored glasses). And with the boost basically everyone can enjoy TBC from the start (there's a reason why the boost costs as much as a new retail expansion).

My point is: waiting a few weeks longer for 9.1 won't have any major impact on the retail playerbase. Forcing players that play Classic and retail to choose between both because you overlap their major releases will cause yet another outrage which is unnecessary. I don't say they should delay 9.1 until August or whatever. Just give players more than 2 weeks from TBC launch to 9.1.

[Sondrelk]

And I think you are underestimating the pull factor of TBC. It's the first expansion, it's where two new races / classes were introduced to the game, it's Outland and it's the best time for a raider to come into WoW.

What do we have with Shadowlands? A very starved playerbase that was enduring enough to stick for half a year of Shadowlands without new content. Players that left two or three months ago don't bother with coming back two or three weeks sooner or later. The ones that have waited until now can wait two or three weeks more, it doesn't change anything for them. Shadowlands is in a dire state and an early/mid June release for 9.1 won't have any other effect than 9.1 in July. Only diehard fans are still subbed to retail, the others left months ago.

9.1 will have a very, very short lifetime for everyone besides the usual HC / Mythic raiders. TBC P1 will have a way longer lifetime than 9.1 and there are most likely 2 new phases still coming this year. TBC is the expansion where content was widely available for everyone and that will players keep hooked longer than Classic - in my opinion. There's a reason why so many have fond memories of TBC (although many had fond memories of Vanilla and were seemingly disappointed due to their rose-colored glasses). And with the boost basically everyone can enjoy TBC from the start (there's a reason why the boost costs as much as a new retail expansion).

My point is: waiting a few weeks longer for 9.1 won't have any major impact on the retail playerbase. Forcing players that play Classic and retail to choose between both because you overlap their major releases will cause yet another outrage which is unnecessary. I don't say they should delay 9.1 until August or whatever. Just give players more than 2 weeks from TBC launch to 9.1.

That's the thing though. The SL is starved and additionally more numerous, whereas the Classic playerbade us smaller and able to wait longer..

Regardless I still doubt that TBC will be a sensation like Classic was, much less hold the initial playerbase better.
After all, who is TBC made for exactly? It's the first expansion for sure, but WotLK is the one where wow awareness peaked, so I imagine that most players that miss it are those that already play Classic, which is most definitely smaller than the SL playerbase.


The long and short of it still is that SL is simply more important as a revenue base. Classic is a museum piece by admission of even the developers. Why in the world should Blizzard prioritize that playerbade over their main one?

[Lady Atia]

And I think you are underestimating the pull factor of TBC. It's the first expansion, it's where two new races / classes were introduced to the game, it's Outland and it's the best time for a raider to come into WoW.

What do we have with Shadowlands? A very starved playerbase that was enduring enough to stick for half a year of Shadowlands without new content. Players that left two or three months ago don't bother with coming back two or three weeks sooner or later. The ones that have waited until now can wait two or three weeks more, it doesn't change anything for them. Shadowlands is in a dire state and an early/mid June release for 9.1 won't have any other effect than 9.1 in July. Only diehard fans are still subbed to retail, the others left months ago.

9.1 will have a very, very short lifetime for everyone besides the usual HC / Mythic raiders. TBC P1 will have a way longer lifetime than 9.1 and there are most likely 2 new phases still coming this year. TBC is the expansion where content was widely available for everyone and that will players keep hooked longer than Classic - in my opinion. There's a reason why so many have fond memories of TBC (although many had fond memories of Vanilla and were seemingly disappointed due to their rose-colored glasses). And with the boost basically everyone can enjoy TBC from the start (there's a reason why the boost costs as much as a new retail expansion).

My point is: waiting a few weeks longer for 9.1 won't have any major impact on the retail playerbase. Forcing players that play Classic and retail to choose between both because you overlap their major releases will cause yet another outrage which is unnecessary. I don't say they should delay 9.1 until August or whatever. Just give players more than 2 weeks from TBC launch to 9.1.

Your argument about the rose-colored glasses can also be used for TBC. It was only good because it was the first expansion. Wotlk, MoP or Legion were miles ahead. Heck, for me even Shadowlands is better than TBC.

[therumblings]

I wonder if blizzard will release Cataclysm Classic after Wrath Classic, to coincide with a potential 10.0 or 11.0 revamp. This way they would have a reason to make classic servers of every expansion up until the revamp since everything will be different.

[Lady Atia]

I wonder if blizzard will release Cataclysm Classic after Wrath Classic, to coincide with a potential 10.0 or 11.0 revamp. This way they would have a reason to make classic servers of every expansion up until the revamp since everything will be different.

Why wouldn't they just have two (or potential three if they ever re-add classic for timewalking) versions of EK/Kalimdor for retail, similiar to Outland/Draenor? Removing content is always bad for the game.

[therumblings]

Why wouldn't they just have two (or potential three if they ever re-add classic for timewalking) versions of EK/Kalimdor for retail, similiar to Outland/Draenor? Removing content is always bad for the game.

Blizzard unfortunately has an excuse now with classic versions of previous expansions releasing, they can do major major changes in retail now without having to worry about old removed things being gone forever.

[Lady Atia]

Blizzard unfortunately has an excuse now with classic versions of previous expansions releasing, they can do major major changes in retail now without having to worry about old removed things being gone forever.

But as long as "classic" rewards won't carry over(and lets hope this won't change ....), that content is basically gone for retail. Why delete it if you can just put up a portal in Caverns of Time or use Chromie to switch timelines?

[Nyel]

That's the thing though. The SL is starved and additionally more numerous, whereas the Classic playerbade us smaller and able to wait longer..

Regardless I still doubt that TBC will be a sensation like Classic was, much less hold the initial playerbase better.
After all, who is TBC made for exactly? It's the first expansion for sure, but WotLK is the one where wow awareness peaked, so I imagine that most players that miss it are those that already play Classic, which is most definitely smaller than the SL playerbase.


The long and short of it still is that SL is simply more important as a revenue base. Classic is a museum piece by admission of even the developers. Why in the world should Blizzard prioritize that playerbade over their main one?

The argument that the Classic playerbase can wait longer doesn't matter though, pre patch is released and TBC will follow in two weeks. That could have mattered before they had set their dates and I agree to an extent, but it doesn't matter anymore. As I said, players that are bored of Shadowlands left months ago. Players that are still around will be around in 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 10 weeks.

Even if Shadowlands has a bigger playerbase, TBC is the main event this year. Character boost, deluxe edition, TBC launch - that's where the big money lies for WoW this year. It might be a sad truth for retail, but it's still the truth. Retail only has the sub going on, which is even part of Classic as well. With all the (horrible) micro transactions they brought into Classic, Classic easily will outgross retail. It doesn't change the fact that retail is in a bad position though, which we both agree on.

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I wonder if blizzard will release Cataclysm Classic after Wrath Classic, to coincide with a potential 10.0 or 11.0 revamp. This way they would have a reason to make classic servers of every expansion up until the revamp since everything will be different.

Cataclysm Classic would follow in 2025. In 2025 we will have something like 11.1 or 11.2. So maybe for 11.0, it sounds quite interesting, but realistic? I don't know.

[therumblings]

But as long as "classic" rewards won't carry over(and lets hope this won't change ....), that content is basically gone for retail. Why delete it if you can just put up a portal in Caverns of Time or use Chromie to switch timelines?

I feel like if blizzard had any intention of doing that they would have done it for classic, it probably would have been a lot more work, but it would have been worth it in my opinion. It seems the easier way for blizzard is to simply create expansion era servers while pushing the retail game in a new direction with a lot of change. I can see this as a blessing and a curse.

Cataclysm Classic would follow in 2025. In 2025 we will have something like 11.1 or 11.2. So maybe for 11.0, it sounds quite interesting, but realistic? I don't know.

Well with Blizzard it's definitely not realistic to ever expect another revamp, but I want it so bad that my hopium supply keeps going up.

[Alanar]

give me my damn maw skip

i still dont understand why it isnt being put in 9.1

I think its just to bring back players to level alts in 9.2 by fixing it later.

Intentional by blizz, meaning more money.

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I wonder if blizzard will release Cataclysm Classic after Wrath Classic, to coincide with a potential 10.0 or 11.0 revamp. This way they would have a reason to make classic servers of every expansion up until the revamp since everything will be different.

I cant wait to play classic shadowlands!!!!!!-.-

Not my kind of trend and no bc will not be something i will play.

[Lady Atia]

I feel like if blizzard had any intention of doing that they would have done it for classic, it probably would have been a lot more work, but it would have been worth it in my opinion. It seems the easier way for blizzard is to simply create expansion era servers while pushing the retail game in a new direction with a lot of change. I can see this as a blessing and a curse.



Well with Blizzard it's definitely not realistic to ever expect another revamp, but I want it so bad that my hopium supply keeps going up.

Well, TBC shows that "expansion content with original systems aka talent trees and pvp seasons" is enough to warrant a classic realm - the only things that got removed are the Amani Bear and the Gladiator Mounts - everything else is still available, including attunement quests (you just don't get the titles anymore).

[TheFirstOnes]

I mean he's the lead figure when it comes to the direction of WoW, at least until Karen from Finance or Bobby have their word. So what he says should have some leverage. I think it's out of question that he turned WoW into the worst state its ever been with BfA and Shadowlands (aka Systemlands) and that he drastically has to change the course and direction of retail, but that isn't the point here. I guess his word means something, for the better or worse.

Yeah, I'll totally trust the guy who says shit like "We made mistakes from WoD, Legion, and BFA" only to amp them up by 11 expansions later. Doesn't help the dude kinda just straight up lies about who the final villain is for each expac.

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At most, we'll see a 2 week gap. Blizzard gave players 2 weeks of Pre-patch, and they'll give players 2 weeks of launch. I'm not expecting some late-june type shit.

[therumblings]

Well, TBC shows that "expansion content with original systems aka talent trees and pvp seasons" is enough to warrant a classic realm - the only things that got removed are the Amani Bear and the Gladiator Mounts - everything else is still available, including attunement quests (you just don't get the titles anymore).

Yeah BC classic is a pretty big deal since most of it is still there, technically. I am 100% sure we're getting Wrath Classic, and very convinced we're getting Cata Classic. Also, the time between these expansion era servers is roughly the equivalent of a full expansion's 2 year life cycle, so by the time we get stuff like Cata or Legion Classic, I feel like such a long amount of time will have passed that the demand for it will be there, even if it's minor.

[sponge5307]

https://youtu.be/ilaeRQK_FDQ
This explains a lot. For people hoping for 9.3. It aint going to happen. SL is delay so it will most likely end with 9.2 unless they want to push the next expansion father down the road.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

https://youtu.be/ilaeRQK_FDQ
This explains a lot. For people hoping for 9.3. It aint going to happen. SL is delay so it will most likely end with 9.2 unless they want to push the next expansion father down the road.

Thats not a reason... at all. SL delaying just means the schedule is pushed back. I always presumed this expansion would last longer due to world events.