Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Wangming]

Is there even a place for that in WoW? You already scale extremely well against lower level enemies and raids, the only utility/benefit that would have in WoW would be solo-ing the last expansion's raid when that's still hard for max levels, I guess?

In WoW? Definitely. In the WoW community? I have my doubts. Every time something remotely innovative is suggested they end up wailing "nooooo my basic ass gameplay from almost twenty years agooooo"

The WoW culture will never accept something like that, because people will lose their minds online and complain it's just a quest gimmick like when you turn into Terokk or Huln and get 3 new abilities for that quest.

Yeah, what he said.

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Oh HS has experimented far more heavily outside that expac with dual classing. We had dual class heroes in a lot of the solo content, had Diablo as a Warrior/Warlock in Duels for a long while, had multiple dual class cards in Scholomance.

Good point. The challenge is to translate it into WoW gameplay someway.

[therumblings]

Blizzard needs to tread carefully when innovating, but I think they need to return to the basics right now more than anything. MoP or Legion is obviously a good model, I'm not sure what's been happening or why they feel the need to tinker (pun intended) with the models that work so well.

[Luck4]

Touching a bit on the possible late release in the summer of 2023, I think people need to understand that WoW will be on rock bottom by the end of 2022, so there's no need to rush, what Blizzard truly needs is an expansion that's good enough to bring in both former and new players.

Having confirmation of a more grounded theme is good, but we also need good gameplay and lore. I dearly hope Blizzard tries a "Legion comeback", otherwise, I think not even Microsoft's money will be able to resurrect this franchise without releasing a brand new game.

[SniperCT]

BfA actually did that and I think did it great in 8.0. Kul Tiras and Zandalar each had an extensive storyline that you worked through while leveling with a fairly impressive capstone (Zandalar Forever & Uldir/ Siege of Boralus). The stories were complete and done well. Sure the Zandalar story left plot hooks open but none of them were urgent (Talanji finding about Bwonsamdi)

Like, Zandalar could have been its own xpac easily (so could Kul'tiras but I cannot see any possible way to allow Horde there when I could see Alliance allowed in Zandalar).

8.0 (and Jaina's storyline in particular) were the highlights of BFA for me, even if I detest the HvA stuff. Then it went off the rails. If they'd just ... stuck to that theme and foreshadowed the old gods and gave them their own damn expansion....I think it would have gone better, at least for me. But Azshara got the short end of the stick. An expack focused on her could have been a good breather expansion while also raising stakes.

[Nyel]

Blizzard needs to tread carefully when innovating, but I think they need to return to the basics right now more than anything. MoP or Legion is obviously a good model, I'm not sure what's been happening or why they feel the need to tinker (pun intended) with the models that work so well.

They just sabotage themselves deliberately.

Artifact weapons could have been a thing that we keep forever as a horizontal progression system. It would have been easy to do that. Yet they chose to trash the entire system. Same can be said about Azerite. Covenants not so much, but the idea is the same. With their half-hearted approach of borrowed power they just make their own life as dev miserable, without any need to. But they're so stuck in their approach, I doubt they're going to change it.

[therumblings]

I dearly hope Blizzard tries a "Legion comeback"

I think it's inevitable, which maybe makes me partially put some faith in the microclass leak, because adding several new classes in one expansion seems like something they would do to try to bring back many players. All I really want is a brand new class with Legion/Mop gameplay and the dragon isles as the continent and I will be satisfied.

[zernie]

I mean, the last two expansions could've been even worse if they had to invest their resources into a new class.

[ercarp]

I mean it was obviously fake, but if they had fun, meh I won't blame them!

It was a good effort for sure. They knew that just a logo alone isn't enough to fool people these days so they tried to do something bigger. I can respect that.

Are we sure it's not an illusion from it being grainy and CMYK black? Print job might give that off.

It could be. I've boosted up the saturation here only very slightly and as you can see, there is a fair amount of green on the logo (especially on the right side).



However, if you boost it up even higher (brace your eyes for this one), you do start to see a bit of green in the gray border around the artwork as well.



So I guess it's inconclusive for now? But personally I think it's going to be green.

[Nyel]

Touching a bit on the possible late release in the summer of 2023, I think people need to understand that WoW will be on rock bottom by the end of 2022, so there's no need to rush, what Blizzard truly needs is an expansion that's good enough to bring in both former and new players.

End of 2022? I think we will already reach this point in 2-3 months when 9.2 feels old (9.2.5 won't change anything in that regard). A release one year from now on feels SUPER LATE already. It's not really about rushing anyway, what the heck were they doing the last year(s) if they are so late although they cut Shadowlands content by a considerable margin?

[therumblings]

I mean, the last two expansions could've been even worse if they had to invest their resources into a new class.

Class has nothing to do with the expansion being shit or not, in fact every expansion that added a new class was received as being a good expansion. I don't think there is any connection either, I just think a new class freshens up gameplay.

[ercarp]

I dearly hope Blizzard tries a "Legion comeback".

I hope so too. Legion made me fall in love with WoW again and I remember being so blinded by how good it was that I genuinely thought there was no way that BfA could suck. "Surely Blizzard had learned their lesson and every expansion from now on was going to be a solid 10/10!" That was my thinking at the time, but oh man... how wrong I was.

Part of me hoped Shadowlands was going to be the Legion-style redemption/comeback expansion, but somehow it turned out EVEN WORSE.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Green logo makes sense considering the CE mount

[Wangming]

Blizzard needs to tread carefully when innovating, but I think they need to return to the basics right now more than anything. MoP or Legion is obviously a good model, I'm not sure what's been happening or why they feel the need to tinker (pun intended) with the models that work so well.

A return to the basics in terms of story themes, definitely. But not sure if the same is true for gameplay. There's already two versions of Classic with at least a third on its way-

[therumblings]

A return to the basics in terms of story themes, definitely. But not sure if the same is true for gameplay. There's already two versions of Classic with at least a third on its way-

There is no MoP or Legion classic. They need to stop reinventing the wheel and go back to what worked.

I hope so too. Legion made me fall in love with WoW again and I remember being so blinded by how good it was that I genuinely thought there was no way that BfA could suck. "Surely Blizzard had learned their lesson and every expansion from now on was going to be a solid 10/10!" That was my thinking at the time, but oh man... how wrong I was.

This

[Sondrelk]

There is no MoP or Legion classic. They need to stop reinventing the wheel and go back to what worked.



This

Because then it becomes stagnant.
MoP and Legion were not perfect, so you need to change stuff anyways. You can't really just throw your hands up and say that since MoP and Legion were considered good expansions you are going to add Scenarios and RNG Legiondaries back in, something has to change.

Same with class design. Some classes were good, some were not. And even those that are close to perfect needs new stuff added in each expansion to promote interest.

[therumblings]

Because then it becomes stagnant.
MoP and Legion were not perfect, so you need to change stuff anyways. You can't really just throw your hands up and say that since MoP and Legion were considered good expansions you are going to add Scenarios and RNG Legiondaries back in, something has to change.

I don't want it stagnant, I just don't want the game to be shit anymore. It should return to MoP/Legion gameplay, it doesn't have to be a literal classic version of the expansions.

[SniperCT]

I don't want it stagnant, I just don't want the game to be shit anymore. It should return to MoP/Legion gameplay, it doesn't have to be a literal classic version of the expansions.

I really miss the MoP versions of my favorite classes. (and the wrath version of Disc priest. Haven't healed in wow since they ruined it with cata lol It was the only healing spec I liked.)

[Niwes]

I hope so too. Legion made me fall in love with WoW again and I remember being so blinded by how good it was that I genuinely thought there was no way that BfA could suck. "Surely Blizzard had learned their lesson and every expansion from now on was going to be a solid 10/10!" That was my thinking at the time, but oh man... how wrong I was.

Part of me hoped Shadowlands was going to be the Legion-style redemption/comeback expansion, but somehow it turned out EVEN WORSE.

tbh, my thoughts about Legion, at time of release, were another:

- Oh, they throw in every lore name or character, even as some stupid quest boss, just to push it up.
- Oh, they perfected cost effective rehashing by WQ system.
- Oh, order hall is just endless cheap quests full of some blah blah class lore, they put in randomly every lore stuff.
- Oh, they cheap shit throw big figurines away, like Kiljaeden.
- Argus endboss story was shit.
- Funnily i liked the Illidan redemption. It was well laid out.
- 7.2 was cheapest content ever.
- Suramar was an endless stupid quest chain, without much weight. it was just cheap stretching material.
- Argus was nice and well done.
- Crucible system was stupid.
- Liked the secrets Blizz invested time in (Brain Mount).
- Raids were good.
- First raid was lame AF, design wise.
- Legendary system was worst system ever.
- Overall story ark was „Burning Legion again (was ok) and uselessly throw in every random lore stuff/name (stupid).
- Khadgar stuff was a bit lame to me.
- Order hall style and existence per se was nice.
- Missions were as same cheap shit filler as always.
- Order hall built up was cheap filler stuff.
- Mage Tower was great. Foremost when coupled with nice tmogs or Druid forms.

All in all to me Legion was „ok“. But in comparisson to older xpacs they did A LOT of cheap shit filler stuff, a horrible Leggy system, 7.2 was bad AF and they used randomly every piece of lore or lore name/char as cheap canon fodder, even in trivial quests. on the other side it had 3 good raids, nice Argus and many love in the detials. to me Legion was „just“ a 7/10.

on the other side: comparred to SL i would give blowjobs for a Legion-like xpac.

[therumblings]

It was a good effort for sure. They knew that just a logo alone isn't enough to fool people these days so they tried to do something bigger. I can respect that.



It could be. I've boosted up the saturation here only very slightly and as you can see, there is a fair amount of green on the logo (especially on the right side).



However, if you boost it up even higher (brace your eyes for this one), you do start to see a bit of green in the gray border around the artwork as well.



So I guess it's inconclusive for now? But personally I think it's going to be green.

I wish we could analyze this image for more details, I'm still convinced this is real. I'm not sold on the logo looking good or not yet but I guess I can decide once I see it in HD.

[ercarp]

I don't want it stagnant, I just don't want the game to be shit anymore. It should return to MoP/Legion gameplay, it doesn't have to be a literal classic version of the expansions.

I agree.

Everyone keeps saying that BfA and SL were "Legion 2.0" and "Legion 3.0" but that couldn't be further from the truth imo. The only thing they have in common is the existence of World Quests (which feel slower and worse btw)... and I guess SL tried (very poorly) to make Legiondaries a thing again, but it didn't work out the way it should have. At all.

Legion had great class design (for most specs anyhow) and classes felt engaging and powerful. After Legion, I feel like they've been getting just clunkier and slower—and the GCD and AoE cap changes don't help. I'll give some credit to the Corruptions added in the last season of BfA. Acquisition sucked ass, but stacking Twilight Devastation as a tank and randomly chunking half of a boss's HP in M+ when it procced was the first time I had fun in the game since Legion.

But what is the missing link? Why does Blizzard suck ass at figuring out the formula to Legion's success? Because BfA and SL were not it. Is it Artifact Weapons? A new class? A steady patch cycle? Or lore that actually mattered? Could be all of them, could be something completely different.