Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Dracullus]

I dunno, Legion fulfilled my expectations, and I can say the same about WOTLK, and these expansions were over six years apart from each other.

Actually, Legion hyped me up in every ending cinematic, with a glorious ending conclusion in 7.3.

And the build-up of WOTLK was also really good.

Both Wrath and Legion were culminations of story told in Warcraft III and Frozen Throne, especially Wrath is pretty messy without that foundation (imagine last hour of LoTR starting with tournament in Mordor and Sauron randomly showing up there).

Shadowlands are completely on the opposite, it's strange to me that Wrath nostalgia is so underused if this is continuation of that thread anyway. You clearly see that potential in Uther storyline that is arguably best thing connected to main plot.

And yeah, Legion was great with end of raids big events - Illidan resurrection, Argus showing up on the sky (we all knew this will be 7.3, but no one expected it visible on the sky all the time) and sword in Silithus. Let's hope 9.2 will have some return of form in this field, cause last few cinematics were full of missed opportunities and made you feel "that's it?" instead of "hell yeah" (but don't forget it's WoW community and there is always shit ton of people saying "that's it?" even after Antorus end).

[Revamp Man]

We... basically don't know that. Same about Ysera. If we get Dragons next expansion, Ysera for sure will come back.

- - - Updated - - -



It absolutely does. But I'm sure you gonna dissect why it does not, so here we go.

Vashj doesn’t have a body and in terms of the thought process of the queen she is a failure and a discarded tool

[Nyel]

Both Wrath and Legion were culminations of story told in Warcraft III and Frozen Throne, especially Wrath is pretty messy without that foundation (imagine last hour of LoTR starting with tournament in Mordor and Sauron randomly showing up there).

Shadowlands are completely on the opposite, it's strange to me that Wrath nostalgia is so underused if this is continuation of that thread anyway. You clearly see that potential in Uther storyline that is arguably best thing connected to main plot.

And yeah, Legion was great with end of raids big events - Illidan resurrection, Argus showing up on the sky (we all knew this will be 7.3, but no one expected it visible on the sky all the time) and sword in Silithus. Let's hope 9.2 will have some return of form in this field, cause last few cinematics were full of missed opportunities and made you feel "that's it?" instead of "hell yeah" (but don't forget it's WoW community and there is always shit ton of people saying "that's it?" even after Antorus end).

I totally agree here. Every main raid in Legion felt very impactful and build up towards the upcoming raid. Not counting Emerald Nightmare, because that was a hit and miss, but the others were excellent.

Nighthold, in itself already one of the top raids in WoW, was a perfect build up towards Tomb of Sargeras. Tomb of Sargeras continued the storyline and culminated in what leads us to Argus. It was just a very well-executed build up towards the grand finale.

That wasn't the case in BfA at all, due to various reasons: Uldir felt very detached from everything, BoD - while being a great raid - had the faction-theme and didn't fit into the overarching narrative. Eternal Palace was an okay raid, but the ending felt very, very weak in comparison to the Legion build up of upcoming raids.

Shadowlands felt samey. Castle Nathria wasn't really part of the overarching narrative at all (although Denathrius was connected to the Jailer). Sanctum was okayish I guess, but the ending wasn't very climactic either.

I find it so weird that they seem to have found the pinnacle of WoWs modern design in Legion and then just abandoned basically every good aspect of it in the following expansions.

[Dracullus]

That wasn't the case in BfA at all, due to various reasons: Uldir felt very detached from everything, BoD - while being a great raid - had the faction-theme and didn't fit into the overarching narrative. Eternal Palace was an okay raid, but the ending felt very, very weak in comparison to the Legion build up of upcoming raids.

That's why BfA would work so well as two separate expansion.

8.0: Black Empire expansion: Zandalar leveling experience -> Uldir -> BoD (but with Azshara forces attacking, not Alliance) -> Nazjatar -> Nyalotha; on the end Azeroth is healed, every threat seems to be gone, but recources are scarce which lead to A/H war.

9.0: War expansion: Teldrassil/Lordareon (but without making Sylvanas and Forsaken obvious villains) -> Kul Tiras -> raiding experience BoD style -> last raid as massive battle between H/A, in the end Sylvanas betray everyone and decimate both armies (and THEN she fly away after achieving her goal, not because she's bored) which directly lead to SL.

[Baedril]

Vashj doesn’t have a body

Is that really a barrier in bringing Vashj back for blizzard? Make one fancy magic ritual where she brings herself back using the champion's 'connection to Azeroth' or something like that, and boom she's back. Hell, they could literally just have them walk out of the Shadowlands and use their SL models and never acknowledge it.

[Nyel]

That's why BfA would work so well as two separate expansion.

8.0: Black Empire expansion: Zandalar leveling experience -> Uldir -> BoD (but with Azshara forces attacking, not Alliance) -> Nazjatar -> Nyalotha; on the end Azeroth is healed, every threat seems to be gone, but recources are scarce which lead to A/H war.

9.0: War expansion: Teldrassil/Lordareon (but without making Sylvanas and Forsaken obvious villains) -> Kul Tiras -> raiding experience BoD style -> last raid as massive battle between H/A, in the end Sylvanas betray everyone and decimate both armies (and THEN she fly away after achieving her goal, not because she's bored) which directly lead to SL.

That's what I call a missed opportunity. Sounds pretty good. Nothing would feel rushed or left out.

[pacotaco]

YO! That's actually genius though.

Give us a Magnificent Seven story in an updated Westfall. Gotta save Sentinel Hill from the Defias and teach the Farmers to fight.

Isn't that the "7 Samurai" plot? >_>

[micwini]

Maybe the login screen for 10.0?

https://imgur.com/a/579DdzP

You changed the URL. Clever. You got me.

[Raetary]

You changed the URL. Clever. You got me.

It's a new image.

[Darkarath]

That's why BfA would work so well as two separate expansion.

8.0: Black Empire expansion: Zandalar leveling experience -> Uldir -> BoD (but with Azshara forces attacking, not Alliance) -> Nazjatar -> Nyalotha; on the end Azeroth is healed, every threat seems to be gone, but recources are scarce which lead to A/H war.

9.0: War expansion: Teldrassil/Lordareon (but without making Sylvanas and Forsaken obvious villains) -> Kul Tiras -> raiding experience BoD style -> last raid as massive battle between H/A, in the end Sylvanas betray everyone and decimate both armies (and THEN she fly away after achieving her goal, not because she's bored) which directly lead to SL.

Not bad, not bad at all. Zandalar and Kul'Tiras seem too small to carry their own expansion, though, and while I can see the Zandalari Empire staying neutral after our visit, Kul'Tiras would definitively join the Alliance again. I mean, it would feel bad if in one expansion one faction gets a new race while the other does not. But for sure Blizzard could have make it work with a different treatment.

The BfA way of handeling N'zoth still gets me. Why they were so eager to rush through so much good and potential plotlines? Hopefully 10.0 gives us some answers.

[micwini]

It's a new image.

You made me click the same link a second time. Thats some 5Head reply there.

[Nyel]

Not bad, not bad at all. Zandalar and Kul'Tiras seem too small to carry their own expansion, though, and while I can see the Zandalari Empire staying neutral after our visit, Kul'Tiras would definitively join the Alliance again. I mean, it would feel bad if in one expansion one faction gets a new race while the other does not. But for sure Blizzard could have make it work with a different treatment.

The BfA way of handeling N'zoth still gets me. Why they were so eager to rush through so much good and potential plotlines? Hopefully 10.0 gives us some answers.

Too small? I mean both continents are as big as Blizzard wants them to be. They could have easily added more zones to them. But talking and fantasizing about this is nostalgy, it's sad and done and neither did Kul'Tiras nor Zandalar justice.

[Darkarath]

Too small? I mean both continents are as big as Blizzard wants them to be. They could have easily added more zones to them. But talking and fantasizing about this is nostalgy, it's sad and done and neither did Kul'Tiras nor Zandalar justice.

I know that Blizzard can make up any excuse to enlarge any group of isles to make a new continent out of it, but the Zandalar that we got is bigger than what I thought that Zandalar would be.

BUT, do not lose hope, they might yet make another cataclysm and we could revisit Zandalar and Kul'Tiras again in 12 years!!

[Sondrelk]

Not bad, not bad at all. Zandalar and Kul'Tiras seem too small to carry their own expansion, though, and while I can see the Zandalari Empire staying neutral after our visit, Kul'Tiras would definitively join the Alliance again. I mean, it would feel bad if in one expansion one faction gets a new race while the other does not. But for sure Blizzard could have make it work with a different treatment.

The BfA way of handeling N'zoth still gets me. Why they were so eager to rush through so much good and potential plotlines? Hopefully 10.0 gives us some answers.

They are individually too small, but both have large amounts of extra stuff that could be used to fill it out.
A Faction War expansion could have even more focus on revamped zones like Darkshore and Arathi, as well as having every single faction hub as a potential raid.

An Old God expansion specifically though could have even more stuff added.
Returning to Ahn'Qiraj or Ulduar, more focus on the Qiraji offshoots like Mantid or Nerubians. Even more underwater stuff like the Abyssal Maw and Nazjatar proper.

And if we are on the topic of stuff that BfA did halfheartedly in an effort to do everything then I would also argue that the Naval element was all but abandoned by the end. We could have had naval battles, unique zone traversal mechanics, more focus on the Naga threat. I would have taken even just the first fight of the last raid being on a boat rather than the last patch of BfA abandoning the ocean stuff completely. We go to Ny'alotha and the idea that we went to Kul Tiras and Zandalar to find ships is completely and utterly meaningless, and this despite N'zoth being heavily themed around the ocean.

[Darkarath]

They are individually too small, but both have large amounts of extra stuff that could be used to fill it out.
A Faction War expansion could have even more focus on revamped zones like Darkshore and Arathi, as well as having every single faction hub as a potential raid.

An Old God expansion specifically though could have even more stuff added.
Returning to Ahn'Qiraj or Ulduar, more focus on the Qiraji offshoots like Mantid or Nerubians. Even more underwater stuff like the Abyssal Maw and Nazjatar proper.

And if we are on the topic of stuff that BfA did halfheartedly in an effort to do everything then I would also argue that the Naval element was all but abandoned by the end. We could have had naval battles, unique zone traversal mechanics, more focus on the Naga threat. I would have taken even just the first fight of the last raid being on a boat rather than the last patch of BfA abandoning the ocean stuff completely. We go to Ny'alotha and the idea that we went to Kul Tiras and Zandalar to find ships is completely and utterly meaningless, and this despite N'zoth being heavily themed around the ocean.

I agree. Man, so much potential wasted in BfA. Faction war, Azshara and N'Zoth. Three expansions on their own mixed in one. The eternally wanted Nazjatar was such a dissapointment, and I enjoyed the zone, but it should have been so much more, the Naga never felt like a real threat, even if 8.2 cinematic was pretty cool. Azshara development was basically that cinematic, and she looked cool as hell, but she did nothing of importance

And the also long awaited Old God invasion in 8.3? Pffff... So many cool assets done related to Old Gods gives me hope for a future expansion, but 8.3 was such a let down...

[huth]

You made me click the same link a second time. Thats some 5Head reply there.

It's true, though. Check the upper left.

[Fahrad Wagner]

It's so good to see everyone gathering in this thread in anticipation of what may or may not come this week Is it too soon to summon the hype train?

[Lady Atia]

Legion

/10char

And don't forget TBC - half of it was about elves (Illidan, Kael, heck even Vashj was a former elf).

[Makorus]

And don't forget TBC - half of it was about elves (Illidan, Kael, heck even Vashj was a former elf).

Just because major characters are elves, does not mean that the expansion is about elves.

When people say they want an expansion about elves, they are not talking about featuring character that are elves, but an expansion that features their culture, architecture or moves their story forward in some way.

The only expansion that really was that was Legion, and maybe Cataclysm. Sure, TBC had Blood Elves, but outside of the starting experience, they weren't really relevant.

[Lady Atia]

Just because major characters are elves, does not mean that the expansion is about elves.

When people say they want an expansion about elves, they are not talking about featuring character that are elves, but an expansion that features their culture, architecture or moves their story forward in some way.

The only expansion that really was that was Legion, and maybe Cataclysm. Sure, TBC had Blood Elves, but outside of the starting experience, they weren't really relevant.

So I guess you haven't played SWP? Blood Elves were super relevant during TBC lmao.