Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Divada]

This was originally going to be a model for what some presumed to be an artificial Titan (possibly the original plan for Argus, or an artificial body for him to inhabit)Nevertheless, it does make me wonder what the original plan was for this giant Titan body.

From what I remember I think the original encounter designers wanted the final boss fight to be huge in scale, with the Titan towering over the players. But the team couldn't get it to work/or didn't think it would end up being any fun so scrapped it.

[Polybius]

Breaking News: People are now trying to say that WoD had good writing to put Shadowlands down.

What's next, WoD actually had excellent content outside of raiding and Shadowlands is way way worse than it?

The writing started out strong but they clearly skipped huge steps. SL made the exact mistake, as if they abandoned it to work on the next story.

Hopefully this is a good sign since we got Legion after WoD.

[Bsirk]

Just some tin foil thoughts running through my head this morning. Since the Winter Queen and Elune are "sisters", does that mean that Elune is also a robot? Hmm.

[Vakir]

The writing started out strong but they clearly skipped huge steps. SL made the exact mistake, as if they abandoned it to work on the next story.

Hopefully this is a good sign since we got Legion after WoD.

My only concern is that many made similar copium assumptions about SL, between the "good expac followed by bad one" pattern that's arguably been broken plus the assumption that SL would have more due to BFA's failings when it actually had less features.

Hopefully this was a wakeup call that we need another Legion level entry, at least in terms of feature density.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Next expansion is not Void, it's too soon.

They'll keep the Void Lords for the final expansion and ultimate, definitive culmination of the saga that is World of Warcraft.

Nah it's time to accept the fact that WoW is just Dragonball Z at this point.

Void will be in the next two expansions, then they'll pull the scope back and we'll fight the First Ones. Then they'll pull the scope back and we'll fight some cosmic horror that scared the First Ones into ordering the universe in the first place...

[Polybius]

A rather silly observation, but I noticed this and can't quite get over it. It seems implicit that some things changed during the development of Shadowlands, and the plot development has definitely taken turns internally since the end of, say, Legion—so, in that connection, what of this?



This was originally going to be a model for what some presumed to be an artificial Titan (possibly the original plan for Argus, or an artificial body for him to inhabit)—doesn't it look familiar? Admittedly, this is a loose connection, since it is untextured and there is very little to glean from the features that is reliable. The model for Zovaal also did undergo several changes since early development, so this is all very much conjecture, or even arguably very baseless.

Nevertheless, it does make me wonder what the original plan was for this giant Titan body. Of course, it could simply be that this body was used during Zovaal's redesign as a potential reference, so it may not be relevant at all.

Wonder if Titan bodies are made despite Chronicle describing them as immensely large. WoW has a tendency to downscale cosmic doodads to accommodate the player.

[Super Dickmann]

Nevertheless, it does make me wonder what the original plan was for this giant Titan body. Of course, it could simply be that this body was used during Zovaal's redesign as a potential reference, so it may not be relevant at all.

Honestly, a pet theory of mine in terms of irrelevant details is the reason why Zovaal changed designs so often is because they'd already done 'blue humanoid with a death theme and golden celestial accents'. That was Argus. This means that you can't really do the Jailer's chained design overlapping with the Arbiter's accents without producing something a lot like Argus. Ditto, the light blue/gold/white color scheme + old man beard is a lot like Legion's version of Aman'thul. The Bald Man we know and yawn over may be the result of design overcorrection which decided to double down on the Lich King element and prisoner aesthetic instead of taking the far more sensible approach of just not making him a generic humanoid in the first place which would have freed endless design space.

[Kiivar86]

Just some tin foil thoughts running through my head this morning. Since the Winter Queen and Elune are "sisters", does that mean that Elune is also a robot? Hmm.

I mean she had some sort of hand in the creation of the Naaru apparently, so wind chimes, robots, why not?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I was wondering about that, too. Did Blizzard just make the whole Night Elf race's religion turn into robot worshipping? I'm so confused right now.

I mean let's go one more.

Are we just Robots too?

[Super Dickmann]

I mean let's go one more.

Are we just Robots too?

Yes. Humans, dwarves and gnomes are the descendants of robots made in a factory while orcs are the offspring of rock constructs created by Aggrammar.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Yes. Humans, dwarves and gnomes are the descendants of robots made in a factory while orcs are the offspring of rock constructs created by Aggrammar.

I mean even under that. If the First Ones made everything and everything they made is Robots and we're everything.

Beneath the Earthern and the Rock Constructs and the Curse of Flesh are we also just Robots?

[Fahrad Wagner]

Just some tin foil thoughts running through my head this morning. Since the Winter Queen and Elune are "sisters", does that mean that Elune is also a robot? Hmm.

I hadn't thought about that. Crap, that would ruin Elune...

[Super Dickmann]

I mean even under that. If the First Ones made everything and everything they made is Robots and we're everything.

Beneath the Earthern and the Rock Constructs and the Curse of Flesh are we also just Robots?

Yes, we the players were robots all along too. Beep boop. Exterminate all forum posters.

@Bsirk

Also, yes. Unless they backtrack hard like they did with the Elune naaru bit she's fucked, but one of Shadowlands' absolute worst decisions and why it's worse in terms of Elune treatment than any other expansion is that they gave her both clear canonical actions, which were dumb, lines, which were boring and familial relationships, which humanize the only ineffable god the setting had left.

[pacotaco]

The force the Jailer was referring to is very clearly going to end up being what force the Devourers belong to. They are the only part of the Shadowlands story that wasn't given any explanation or motivation. They also don't use any magic that correlates to Light/Void/Fel/Life/Death/Arcane.

I imagine the Crooked Serpent mentioned in Legion is their leader or their chief entity.

I can also see a scenario in which the Devourers are the Warcraft version of Mass Effect's Reapers.

Yeah, after seeing how they seemed to absorb the qualities of what they absorb in Zereth Mortis, I was thinking that maybe they're a force that absorbs other universes..

[Le Conceptuel]

I hadn't thought about that. Crap, that would ruin Elune...

I think "everybody used to be robots" isn't exactly going to change much in a story where that was an established premise for several major races. I don't think this has ruined humans for anybody, nor that the Titan Watchers are robots has ruined them.

[pacotaco]

With him saying that AFTER the Jailer's defeat, I hope we get something from either that Epilogue chapter or at-least something before the next expansion launches to connect stuff.

Probably the last chapter of the campaign, just right after the anounce.

[Le Conceptuel]

Honestly, a pet theory of mine in terms of irrelevant details is the reason why Zovaal changed designs so often is because they'd already done 'blue humanoid with a death theme and golden celestial accents'. That was Argus. This means that you can't really do the Jailer's chained design overlapping with the Arbiter's accents without producing something a lot like Argus. Ditto, the light blue/gold/white color scheme + old man beard is a lot like Legion's version of Aman'thul. The Bald Man we know and yawn over may be the result of design overcorrection which decided to double down on the Lich King element and prisoner aesthetic instead of taking the far more sensible approach of just not making him a generic humanoid in the first place which would have freed endless design space.

Perhaps it could've been more aesthetically-interesting if the robotic design style were used from the get-go and he were explicitly operating on mechanical logic as opposed to being another humanoid insisting he cannot be overcome etc.

He could've used the Jailer frame we've already seen, albeit with the robes of the concept art and the Arbiter's head shape.

[Fahrad Wagner]

I think "everybody used to be robots" isn't exactly going to change much in a story where that was an established premise for several major races. I don't think this has ruined humans for anybody, nor that the Titan Watchers are robots has ruined them.

It is not really the same, humans, dwarves and the likes of them became what they are today through the curse of flesh and old gods meddling with the original design of the titans. From my understanding, it is not the case of the Winter Queen and other covenants leaders: they were just made as such by the First Ones. If the same is to be applied for Elune, she would just be another sentient construct of the First Ones, not something that evolved on its own from its first iteration as a construct (in the same way humans now exist). I don't know if I was really clear, let me know if I wasn't

[Hellspawn]

Just some tin foil thoughts running through my head this morning. Since the Winter Queen and Elune are "sisters", does that mean that Elune is also a robot? Hmm.

Not necessary but possibly.

We know that all Life has been ordered by the first ones as well and there is a life Zereth... so there could be a printer for life Eternal Ones where Elune could be originated from.

[Le Conceptuel]

It is not really the same, humans, dwarves and the likes of them became what they are today through the curse of flesh and old gods meddling with the original design of the titans. From my understanding, it is not the case of the Winter Queen and other covenants leaders: they were just made as such by the First Ones. If the same is to be applied for Elune, she would just be another sentient construct of the First Ones, not something that evolved on its own from its first iteration as a construct (in the same way humans now exist). I don't know if I was really clear, let me know if I wasn't

I suppose I see what you mean. On a cosmic level, it is very different than it would be on a planetary level. It also feels superfluous that the Pantheons are themselves a sequence of machines, as opposed to a Pantheon building sequences of machines. It seems like it's at least not a problem for the Titans, but I do feel like they and the First Ones still feel very redundant. Perhaps an evolution on the preexisting Pantheon could have been interesting, or a preceding Pantheon akin to the original Greek Titans relative to the Greek Gods as predecessors specifically to the Titans would've been more interesting.