Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I expect to be proven right about a great many things I predicted on April 19.

For Posterity

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I still can’t get over “a cosmos divided will not survive” when the jailer worked towards dividing them Lol unless they twist the story and Denathrius actually worked against the jailer and aligned with the 7th force

Of all the criticisms, this is silly. It's like arguing why an Emperor wants an Empire. A tyrant will always believe their rule brings strength and uniting everyone under their thumb is the right choice.

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Rezan is dead, he infused Vol'jin with his essence before he died.

Vol'jin will become a loa, probably the next Loa of Kings.

Indeed. It wasn't the most flashy resolution, but we did get it. It will be interesting to see him return as a Loa down the line.

The only hanging question is *who* saved his soul, "the hand of Valor" as it were.

[TriHard]

Never meant anything? Il'gynoth's whispers from Legion retroactively foreshadowed all of BFA.

To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars. -> N'Zoth's prison is literally called "Circle of Stars" and is underwater, near Azshara's Eternal Palace.

The king of diamonds has been made a pawn. -> Azshara reiterates this in the Eternal Palace. Magni, the Dwarf king that was turned into diamond, was tricked by N'Zoth. He had the champions fill the Heart of Azeroth with azerite, thinking that it would heal the planet, while in reality it was the key to unlock N'Zoth's prison.

Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it. -> The Heart of Azeroth, filled by the Old God's manipulations of Magni.

Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path. -> The Five Pillars of Creation were the key to saving Azeroth from the Legion invasion, which benefit N'Zoth too. If Sargeras won, N'Zoth would have been finished like the Old God at Telogrus Rift.
The lord of ravens will turn the key. -> Khadgar, the mage who can turn into raven, delivered the final Pillar required to seal the Fel breach.

At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming. -> Azshara, who first died when she drowned, then the elf died (metaphorical death) and the naga was born, and then had her last breath at the end of the raid fight, which is precisely when N'Zoth was freed.

Its surface blazes bright, masking shadows below. -> The Heart of Azeroth, its surfaces blazes bright, but it hides the fact that N'Zoth was using that artefact to free himself.

Literally, Il'gynoth, in Legion, spoiled BfA. How N'Zoth benefit from the Pillars ending the Legion invasion, how Magni was tricked by N'Zoth, how the Heart of Azeroth was actually used to free N'Zoth and not to heal the planet, how Azshara would die but free N'Zoth with her last breath...

i ain't reading all that, i'm happy for you or sorry that happened

[Revamp Man]

Partially because they wanted to do the idea "What if Jaina actually did genocide Orgrimmar?" we had characters who were talked down before they did bad things & characters who refused to change after doing bad things, we needed a character who actually chose Redemption: So they chose Sylvanas: But also she didn't commit genocide yet: So they did Teldrassil first.

That combined with the neoliberal idea of "Tearing down a flawed system is evil because the new system to replace it might be worse!" that I think all major pop culture staples have done at some point: Both the MCU & DCEU does this a lot.

Plus this is especially confusing considering Kerrigan: She committed genocide and was told by an eldritch monster that it would all be justified when her rampage was over. Just like Sylvanas & the Jailer. Only Kerrigan succeeded, so she's justified? That's the exact opposite moral they're trying to impose on this story.

Right, but did they backpedal on this so hard it's no longer canon? It's obviously Wrathion, but after promising to reveal who was behind all those things.....they just never did. If they wanted to say it wasn't Wrathion they could.

Also how did Garrosh go rogue? He seemed to do everything Wrathion wanted him to do: Including dying so he couldn't implicate him.

Honestly in retrospect: Wrathion should have burned Teldrassil. This redemption arc would have fit his character way better.

They haven’t changed anything about it yet but as far as our character and the others know Wrathion had 0 involvement

Garrosh was supposed to make the iron horde and bring it as back up but he decided “why work with them when I can conquer them”

[Nyel]

Probably for the end of the Campaign, so the big Sylvanas-Tyrande one.

So glad to hear that, I was already yearning for more Sylvanas content.

[Revamp Man]

For Posterity

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Of all the criticisms, this is silly. It's like arguing why an Emperor wants an Empire. A tyrant will always believe their rule brings strength and uniting everyone under their thumb is the right choice.

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Indeed. It wasn't the most flashy resolution, but we did get it. It will be interesting to see him return as a Loa down the line.

The only hanging question is *who* saved his soul, "the hand of Valor" as it were.

Ok the jailer wanted to have the cosmos United

But he sent dreadlords out to stir conflict and make the forces fight with each other. He literally did the opposite of what his goal was.

It’s like an emperor saying he wants a thriving empire and then razing everything to the ground then saying “these kingdoms would have been destroyed without me”

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So glad to hear that, I was already yearning for more Sylvanas content.

IKR

I think we’ve seen her like twice since 7.3

[Jekyll]

Still though...getting an OW2 Beta date right after Blizz being completely silent about it for months? Kinda impressive.

I feel sorry for you because your standard for impressive is something that already known.

[Ashapls]

Just saw OW 2 announcement and remembered this

If You Shift time, he did get Sojourn and OW CBT.

This is the one.

I've never been on board with Tinker class concept, but the new shield/tech-y effects in Zereth Mortis can be repurposed for their class effects which is too convenient.

I've also heard there was press material released recently that had something about 500+ new world quests which line up with the living world idea.

Just sounds like a very plausible path forward, but we will see in a month.

[Fahrad Wagner]

This is the one.

I've never been on board with Tinker class concept, but the new shield/tech-y effects in Zereth Mortis can be repurposed for their class effects which is too convenient.

I've also heard there was press material released recently that had something about 500+ new world quests which line up with the living world idea.

Just sounds like a very plausible path forward, but we will see in a month.

Ashes of Galakaros is one of the best leaks out there, I'd be really happy if that's the one which ends up being real. But I'll remain cautious, I don't want to be disappointed

[Valysar]

We'll obvisouly be disappointed; we shouldn't expect anything really interesting from Blizzard anymore imo. But as Danuser loves to say "Wait & see"

[Syegfryed]

Garrosh has a sixth sense for retarded plot directions. When he ended up in a time travel expansion he immediately killed the time traveler to prevent it from turning into a nonsensical mess. When he was in the afterlife the moment he got free he yeeted himself into nonexistence while restating that he'd do it all again to prevent any malarky from altering the conclusion of his character. The hero we deserved.

And, he died before Draenor is free and Tanaan bullshit, not just that he gave thrall crippling depression.

Like my signature keeps saying, we only had to listen, we could have stopped all of this

[Varodoc]

i ain't reading all that, i'm happy for you or sorry that happened

Know that I respect your decision, I just want you to know that the Story proves you wrong.

The thing about N'Zoth is that he is so smart and manipulative, so 2342423IQ light years ahead of everyone else, that even when his butler literally said "hey, N'Zoth is going to manipulate Magni into filling the Heart of Azeroth to free himself", no one still had any clue about what N'Zoth was planning.

Well, almost no one. I have a sensation that the Ren'dorei secretly knew or guessed what N'Zoth was planning. But I digress on another topic.

Anyway it is not a coincidence that N'Zoth's body is literally a giant brain

Be aware however that your choice to ignore Canon is noted.

[Grimbold21]

I was thinking early of a silly idea concerning talents and systems. Not that it's anything new.

I don't support exporting talent design out into external and temporary systems. I sympathize though with the feeling that old talent trees felt bloated for some people.

This may come across as a solution, but it's not intended as so. At this point, Blizzard might as well just pull a PoE style skill tree, a much reduced and condensed version of it and let people go wild.

I play(ed) an Enhancement shaman, so I suppose I'd get 4 branches: Fire, Frost, Lightning and Earth. The last being the much desired tank spec. Wanna be a Fire focused shaman? Go ahead. You wanna combine different stuff? You can do that too.

As I said, silly.

[Sondrelk]

I was thinking early of a silly idea concerning talents and systems. Not that it's anything new.

I don't support exporting talent design out into external and temporary systems. I sympathize though with the feeling that old talent trees felt bloated for some people.

This may come across as a solution, but it's not intended as so. At this point, Blizzard might as well just pull a PoE style skill tree, a much reduced and condensed version of it and let people go wild.

I play(ed) an Enhancement shaman, so I suppose I'd get 4 branches: Fire, Frost, Lightning and Earth. The last being the much desired tank spec. Wanna be a Fire focused shaman? Go ahead. You wanna combine different stuff? You can do that too.

As I said, silly.

I sometimes wonder whether Blizzard would be willing to cleanly separate Mythic raiding from the rest of the game like they did with PvP. Something that operates similarly, but also clearly different from the main game.

[Revamp Man]

Here’s another fun difference between Azeroth and the other Titans

Sargeras and Argus had sargerite and Argunite
Neither of which was from them bleeding unlike azerite. Azerite also effected the intelligence of the people who were exposed but we don’t see that on Argus. Magni is a speaker for Azeroth but Azeroth gave him a vision of the sword and Sargeras…not even the Titan of time could see the future and the only forces that seemed to have that ability were the light and void.

I’m also wondering why the Titans have placed so many facilities and watchers here when they seemingly haven’t done so with other world souls.

Guarantee they are going the way of the immortals and Azeroth ain’t the good guy and we have to stop her from waking up

[Ersula]

Garrosh has a sixth sense for retarded plot directions. When he ended up in a time travel expansion he immediately killed the time traveler to prevent it from turning into a nonsensical mess. When he was in the afterlife the moment he got free he yeeted himself into nonexistence while restating that he'd do it all again to prevent any malarky from altering the conclusion of his character. The hero we deserved.

Well, when you commit time crimes, you have to watch out that your boss doesn't have you killed to wrap up loose-ends.

I’m also wondering why the Titans have placed so many facilities and watchers here when they seemingly haven’t done so with other world souls.

That's why I was so confused about Draenor. I assumed Draenor had a world soul, even younger than Azeroth that was killed when it blew up. But they clarified Argus & Azeroth are the only worlds we've seen that have world souls: So.....why were the Titans building fascilities on Draenor? Clearly not as much of a priority as other planets, but we see in Gorgrond they were involved in the development of the planet.

I guess.... perhaps they wanted the Orcs to invade azeroth? We see the Infinite Dragons trying to stop it from happening in the Caverns of Time.

[Nightshade711]

Well, when you commit time crimes, you have to watch out that your boss doesn't have you killed to wrap up loose-ends. That's why I was so confused about Draenor. I assumed Draenor had a world soul, even younger than Azeroth that was killed when it blew up. But they clarified Argus & Azeroth are the only worlds we've seen that have world souls: So.....why were the Titans building fascilities on Draenor? Clearly not as much of a priority as other planets, but we see in Gorgrond they were involved in the development of the planet.

I guess.... perhaps they wanted the Orcs to invade azeroth? We see the Infinite Dragons trying to stop it from happening in the Caverns of Time.

Draenor was a bit weird from a lore perspective tbh.

I would’ve thought the Titans could’ve intervened because BC had a few hints that Draenor had old gods via the black blood of Draenor and some of the Arrakoa worshipping the old gods to the point of trying to summon one to Outland.
But I don’t think WoD expanded on that.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

So.....why were the Titans building fascilities on Draenor? Clearly not as much of a priority as other planets, but we see in Gorgrond they were involved in the development of the planet.

Could be just me, but once Chronicle Vol 2 came out and we got the backstory of the Evergrowth and Gorgrond, those Titan facilities just seemed like the means of that.

Aggramar creating Grond, was Eonar was even brought by him to help? That, or she couldn't come when he asked her too.

And then The Titans are just very keen on shaping the worlds they come across and seeding them with life, with Draenor in particular being doomed to the Sporemounds if they didn't intervene. So I've assumed there was a bit of that going on- which would explain more of the facilities.

[Ersula]

Know that I respect your decision, I just want you to know that the Story proves you wrong.

The thing about N'Zoth is that he is so smart and manipulative, so 2342423IQ light years ahead of everyone else, that even when his butler literally said "hey, N'Zoth is going to manipulate Magni into filling the Heart of Azeroth to free himself", no one still had any clue about what N'Zoth was planning.

Well, almost no one. I have a sensation that the Ren'dorei secretly knew or guessed what N'Zoth was planning. But I digress on another topic.

Anyway it is not a coincidence that N'Zoth's body is literally a giant brain

Be aware however that your choice to ignore Canon is noted.

This is Sherlock 4x04 logic. "The characterization of Magni, the Titans & N'zoth is bad ON PURPOSE" No, their writing was just bad.

[Varodoc]

This is Sherlock 4x04 logic. "The characterization of Magni, the Titans & N'zoth is bad ON PURPOSE" No, their writing was just bad.

I don't understand what this "post" is supposed to mean, at all.

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Is there any way they could have easily hidden the Zovaal loot-corpse model until that fight was added?
It was probably just the regular datamining, but boy was that ending spoiled by them. So much so, that there was a corner of me that thought it was possibly a red-herring to throw off dataminers.

Just seems odd to have this 1-week lockout for the last 3 bosses on the basis of narrative delivery, but they'd let THAT spoiler just be revealed months prior.

Could almost see them just basically letting it go in to 'soften the blow' for some who would otherwise be way in over their head about 'what's to come' lol.. like myself.