Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Zankai27]

Except you're not seeming to get it; The Brewmaster and its abilities and Chen Stormstout along with the Pandaren and Pandaria set up a lore basis for the eventual Monk class in WoW.

We DON'T have that for Bards in ANY sense. We never have. Further, unlike Wrathion, Mekkatorque, Anduin, or Velen, Blizzard has never built up a Bard lore hero in WoW. They have had decades to do so.

My dude, they have bits and pieces to pull from wherever they want. Russel the Bard, the Bard April Fools joke, random Bards. You're dramatically overselling the forethought put into Pandaren lore in Warcraft 3.

You really shouldn't argue so hard with *me*, considering my initial post was in *defense* of new class ideas. It wasn't directed at you, just because you want a specific two class(es) and don't like when other people have other ideas. I'm one of the people who is completely for new class ideas. In all senses.

Lore explanations are easy. All of these points aside, give it up. You have to stop taking the lore and "things being set up" so seriously, anyway, because obviously the writers don't.

[Teriz]

My dude, they have bits and pieces to pull from wherever they want. Russel the Bard, the Bard April Fools joke, random Bards. You're dramatically overselling the forethought put into Pandaren lore in Warcraft 3.

And let's compare your items here;

Russell the Bard has done what exactly? Has he gone on any missions? Has he participated in any major events? Has he traveled anywhere beyond his tavern?

Compare that to Chen Stormstout; Savior of Ogrimmar, champion of the Horde for helping Thrall defeat Admiral Proudmoore.

There's really no comparison.

You really shouldn't argue so hard with *me*, considering my initial post was in *defense* of new class ideas. It wasn't directed at you, just because you want a specific two class(es) and don't like when other people have other ideas. I'm one of the people who is completely for new class ideas. In all senses.

Who's arguing hard? I'm merely pointing out that you're comparing a highly established class concept with a non-existent one.

- - - Updated - - -

Bards are a standard fantasy/rpg/DnD class, so I don't understand how anyone can adamantly claim they will never be in WoW.

Because in order to be an expansion class in WoW you have to be linked to a lore hero, of which Bards have none.

[Ersula]

The Steamscale was a BFA shop mount, coming at the tail end of the expansion. Again, it appeared to merge the two major themes that were hinted at throughout BFA; Gnome/Goblin Technology and Dragons. I have no idea what it foreshadows, but it along with the Timeless Mechanical Dragonling are foreshadowing something.

BFA and Shadowlands both had exactly two dragons. Or are you saying the appearance of a dragon is supposed to foreshadow future dragon appearences? Because every Expansion has had a dragon at some point.

And bonus, the last two expansions had more bards than dragons. My divining rod is pointing towards my own butthole.

[Nightshade711]

Except you're not seeming to get it; The Brewmaster, Chen Stormstout , the Pandaren, and Pandaria in WC3 set up a lore basis for the eventual Monk class in WoW.

We DON'T have that for Bards in ANY sense. We never have. Further, unlike Wrathion, Mekkatorque, Anduin, or Velen, Blizzard has never built up a Bard lore hero in WoW. They have had decades to do so.

Wow has plenty of bards.
Including ETC and Blight Boar, etc.
Also they have ETC in HotS that they can pull from in terms of a class, because didn’t you say HotS could be used for the basis of a class?

[Trumpwonumad]

Because in order to be an expansion class in WoW you have to be linked to a lore hero, of which Bards have none.

In your opinion. Sorry your not a dev

[Hitei]

ok before going to sleep I wanted to take a look at the ashes of galakaros leak and ok... it's very convincing. The fact that the guy talks about overwatch 2 prepatxh, new warcraft app, etc. It sells the whole thing.

I'm would be a bit disappointed if it ends up being the true expac just because I would have liked to still be surprised ^^ It says a lot on how real it felt

He was literally wrong about every date, and we have known for YEARS about a mobile warcraft in the works.

[Trazzle]

I wonder, could the steamscale be indicating/suggesting that tinkers/engineers/artificers are advancing in what their tech/science is capable of?

Maybe experimenting with high power/volatile sources, like a demon soul, could lead them to a breakthrough with X power source introduced in 10.0 narrative. Heck could simply be a refined/manipulated azerite crystal.

Either way, super excited to have a date and know that the horizon of what’s next is near. Hype!

[Kiria]

Uh, there’s leaks and threads containing the concept coming out of 4chan, Reddit, Wowhead, the official forums, etc. You think MMOC is pushing all of that?

I mean we have people doing stuff like this;

https://mobile.twitter.com/handclaw/...86048649453578

That has way more influence than some posts on a forum.

I see you are still pushing the narrative EVERYONE wants Tinker, hate to tell you bud but that "art" in your own link is over a year old with a total of 85 likes... that does not scream majority to me.

[Teriz]

BFA and Shadowlands both had exactly two dragons. Or are you saying the appearance of a dragon is supposed to foreshadow future dragon appearences? Because every Expansion has had a dragon at some point.

I'm saying that alongside Wrathion, Wrathion searching for the dragon isles, a new dragon flight having evolved from N'zoth, a new chromatic dragon being discovered during Island Expeditions, Vexonia, the uncorrupted Voidwing, the Steamscale Incinerator, the Timeless Mechanical Dragonling, Time Cap'n Hooktail, the dragon pack, and the encrypted mount certainly seem to indicate dragons.....

- - - Updated - - -

Wow has plenty of bards.
Including ETC and Blight Boar, etc.
Also they have ETC in HotS that they can pull from in terms of a class, because didn’t you say HotS could be used for the basis of a class?

Yeah, let's show the lore of ETC;

Elite Tauren Chieftain (abbreviated for simplicity as ETC; for other and previous names see below) is an American band comprised of employees of Blizzard Entertainment. The band's virtual alter ego, The Tauren Chieftains and the Elite Tauren Chieftain,[1] appear in World of Warcraft as a band comprised of members of the Horde, and retain the logo used by the Level 70 Elite incarnation of the real-life band. Their gimmick revolves around writing content that is based on mainly subjects related to the Warcraft universe, though they have more recently extended into StarCraft and Diablo lore as well. The band debuted in 2003 with their first song, "Power of the Horde", which was featured in the credits of Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne and Warcraft III: Reforged.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Eli...ain%20(L70ETC)

You want to build a class and expansion lore around that?

[Trazzle]

I’d consider an expansion that’d lead us/allow Tinkers would be as polarizing as MoP. Great expansion in ways, but thematically distinct.

[Zankai27]

And let's compare your items here;

Russell the Bard has done what exactly? Has he gone on any missions? Has he participated in any major events? Has he traveled anywhere beyond his tavern?

Compare that to Chen Stormstout; Savior of Ogrimmar, champion of the Horde for helping Thrall defeat Admiral Proudmoore.

There's really no comparison.



Who's arguing hard? I'm merely pointing out that you're comparing a highly established class concept with a non-existent one.

- - - Updated - - -



Because in order to be an expansion class in WoW you have to be linked to a lore hero, of which Bards have none.

I knew this would be where we'd get. But you purposefully ignore every potential "Bard" reference in WoW (the two bands, the April Fool's Joke, Russel the Bard, nameless Bards, a popular character in HotS (which is most of the structure for your Dragonborne class, so that has to count too.)) just because it doesn't fit your criteria. You seem to be under the impression that Blizzard has strict rules about what can and can't be a class, and as someone who actually knows a two people on the dev team, you're way, way overthinking it.

You also seem to be under the impression that it has to either be your two ideas or nothing. Frankly, I'd like multiple new ideas and welcome all of them. Let's get Tinkers, Dragons, Bards *and* anything else.

You really shouldn't look at things as definitively having to work a certain way though, or that the dev team literally needs to do something one way, unless you want to look back on 2015 Teriz' Demon Hunter opinions.

[Teriz]

I wonder, could the steamscale be indicating/suggesting that tinkers/engineers/artificers are advancing in what their tech/science is capable of?

Maybe experimenting with high power/volatile sources, like a demon soul, could lead them to a breakthrough with X power source introduced in 10.0 narrative. Heck could simply be a refined/manipulated azerite crystal.

Either way, super excited to have a date and know that the horizon of what’s next is near. Hype!

That's what I'm saying; You can take the clue literally or figuratively, but it's definitely a clue that should be considered, because it and the TMD is sort of floating outside the lore for some reason.

[Ersula]

Because in order to be an expansion class in WoW you have to be linked to a lore hero, of which Bards have none.

The Wow Classes more closely resemble the Dungeons & Dragons classes than Warcraft 3 classes, with the exception of Hero Classes (which have been pretty much phased out, since they removed their iconic requirements & increased starting level) Priests got nothing from Tyrande. Rogues were created wholesale. Hunters only resemble Rexxar in that they have a pet & none of his abilities. Etc.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Eli...ain%20(L70ETC)

You want to build a class and expansion lore around that?

Yes. But also, a.) why would an expansion need to revolve around the new class? There's a lot of aesthetic similarity between a new class & the expansion they were added, but the story absolutely did not revolve around that class. And b.) I sense a lot of denial about how much WoW lifts directly from Wizards of the Coasts properties. Google what the moon goddess is named in the Forgotten Realms. Or where the term Shadowlands comes from.

That's what I'm saying; You can take the clue literally or figuratively, but it's definitely a clue that should be considered, because it and the TMD is sort of floating outside the lore for some reason.

Remember when they added Tyreal's Charger & they had a Diablo themed expansion? That was my favorite. With the Winged Guardian shop mount expansion being a close second.

[Teriz]

I knew this would be where we'd get. But you purposefully ignore every potential "Bard" reference in WoW (the two bands, the April Fool's Joke, Russel the Bard, nameless Bards, a popular character in HotS (which is most of the structure for your Dragonborne class, so that has to count too.)) just because it doesn't fit your criteria. You seem to be under the impression that Blizzard has strict rules about what can and can't be a class, and as someone who actually knows a two people on the dev team, you're way, way overthinking it.

No, my structure for a dragonborne class is numerous draconic characters in WoW lore who disguise themselves as mortals. We're talking about major characters like Wrathion, Chromie, and Alexstraza. Now once again, compare them to Russell the Bard. You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask again; What has he done exactly? Has he gone on any missions? Has he participated in any major events? Has he traveled anywhere beyond his tavern?

And I'll ask this question as well; Name some unique Bard abilities. Demon Hunters had Metamorphosis and Mana Burn. Death Knights had Death Pact and Unholy Aura. Monks had Breath of Fire and Drunken Haze. What's a unique Bard ability?

You also seem to be under the impression that it has to either be your two ideas or nothing. Frankly, I'd like multiple new ideas and welcome all of them. Let's get Tinkers, Dragons, Bards *and* anything else.

I'd like to see multiple new ideas as well, however, we should also recognize why Blizzard has only released 3 new class in the span of almost 20 years; It's because they're very conservative about their classes, and only certain classes make sense in WoW. That is by design.

You really shouldn't look at things as definitively having to work a certain way though, or that the dev team literally needs to do something one way, unless you want to look back on 2015 Teriz' Demon Hunter opinions.

And I stand by those opinions. I predicted that the Demon Hunter would be a shallow class that hinged largely on Metamorphosis, and I was correct. You'll pardon me if I didn't believe that Blizzard would purposely gut a popular Warlock spec to bring DHs in the game.

[Blackwald]

Hey Teriz,

Were I to fast forward a couple of days and see what you're reaction was like to a hypothetical expansion reveal that had literally no connection to dragons or tinkers, what would it look like?

[Teriz]

The Wow Classes more closely resemble the Dungeons & Dragons classes than Warcraft 3 classes, with the exception of Hero Classes (which have been pretty much phased out, since they removed their iconic requirements & increased starting level) Priests got nothing from Tyrande.

Vanilla NE Priests had a version of Starfall.

Rogues were created wholesale.

Nah, they were based largely on Wardens. In WC3 Wardens were originally Assassins, but Blizzard altered their lore and changed their name, but retained their abilities. Hence why Rogues got quite a few of their abilities. In addition there was the halfocren Rogue Garona.

Hunters only resemble Rexxar in that they have a pet & none of his abilities. Etc.

Stampede is a Beastmaster talent, and the entire concept of melee hunters comes from Rexxar.

Yes. But also, a.) why would an expansion need to revolve around the new class? There's a lot of aesthetic similarity between a new class & the expansion they were added, but the story absolutely did not revolve around that class. And b.) I sense a lot of denial about how much WoW lifts directly from Wizards of the Coasts properties. Google what the moon goddess is named in the Forgotten Realms. Or where the term Shadowlands comes from.

Because a new class is a pretty big deal, and needs to make sense within the expansion of its release. Also every class had some level of connection to the expansion it was released in. It certainly helps that the major characters of those expansions; LK, Chen, and Illidan were members of the new class.

Remember when they added Tyreal's Charger & they had a Diablo themed expansion? That was my favorite. With the Winged Guardian shop mount expansion being a close second.

I missed the part where I said that EVERY mount released is related to the next expansion....

[Zankai27]

No, my structure for a dragonborne class is numerous draconic characters in WoW lore who disguise themselves as mortals. We're talking about major characters like Wrathion, Chromie, and Alexstraza. Now once again, compare them to Russell the Bard. You didn't answer my question, so I'll ask again; What has he done exactly? Has he gone on any missions? Has he participated in any major events? Has he traveled anywhere beyond his tavern?

Nope, but there's plenty of time to explore that in the future. To say it can't happen, given that Bards are the last remaining classical DnD class (something foundational for WoW's creation) is just as silly as saying they'll never do Demon Hunters. Why do you think they even thought of an April Fool's joke for Bards in the first place?

And I'll ask this question as well; Name some unique Bard abilities. Demon Hunters had Metamorphosis and Mana Burn. Death Knights had Death Pact and Unholy Aura. Monks had Breath of Fire and Drunken Haze. What's a unique Bard ability?

ETC's got Stage Dive, Face Melt, Mosh Pit, any of those could be utilized or repurposed for whatever flavor of Bard they'd use.

My point isn't that they'll do it *now*, I don't think that in the slightest, but setup can be done any time they want.

I'd like to see multiple new ideas as well, however, we should also recognize why Blizzard has only released 3 new class in the span of almost 20 years; It's because they're very conservative about their classes, and only certain classes make sense in WoW. That is by design.

And then it shouldn't surprise you plenty of people only care about something like Bard, given it's a classical RPG class. If there's a few slots, people want it given to whatever they're most familiar with. Most people don't give a damn about "setup" and I wish you'd realize that. Setup can be done when it's time, anyway.

And I stand by those opinions. I predicted that the Demon Hunter would be a shallow class that hinged largely on Metamorphosis, and I was correct. You'll pardon me if I didn't believe that Blizzard would purposely gut a popular Warlock spec to bring DHs in the game.

Wrong is still wrong, man. We said it could happen, and it did. Blizzard will do whatever they want to establish whatever they want. I was right about Void Elves, too.

Nah, they were based largely on Wardens.

Citation needed. They were based on run-of-the-mill bandits and Outlaws. They didn't get Warden flavor until BC.

Stampede is a Beastmaster talent, and the entire concept of melee hunters comes from Rexxar.

Stampede was added way, WAY later. Like, waaaay later. MoP later. It's hardly comparable to Hunters in Vanilla, who shared nothing with Rexxar.

[Teriz]

Hey Teriz,

Were I to fast forward a couple of days and see what you're reaction was like to a hypothetical expansion reveal that had literally no connection to dragons or tinkers, what would it look like?

Excitement for a new expansion.

[Triceron]

And you know this how exactly?



Any future expansion that we know of.




There's a history of WoW mounts and pets foreshadowing future content. In this case, we have both a mount and a pet.

- - - Updated - - -



The difference here is that we got both a mount and a pet utilizing the same skin. There is a history of WoW mounts showing aspects of future content, and we have a history of pets outright foreshadowing future content (Pandaren Monk Pet WotLK). As I said in another post, in the case of the mechanical dragons, not only do we have a mount and a pet, but they're connected because the pet is the companion to the mount.

Yes, and they are pretty specific to the mounts datamined shortly prior to the next expansions. This is whyy no one would use an example like the Steamscale or Dreadwake mounts in this conversation. We aren't just talking about any shop mount for the sake of being a shop mount.

[Blackwald]

Well that's always great to see. Hype feels good.

You wouldn't feel silly about the thousands of pages of discussion insisting on the dragon stuff?