Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Vakir]

Other than aesthetic (because they're giant flying reptiles that breathe elements), I dunno anyone who doesn't find dragons boring at this stage in the story.

I'm just trying to find a way to cope with it because of the emerald dragon datamine.

I can't imagine clearing out the maw of souls will be as time consuming as say, Illidan standing vigil over Sargeras for all of eternity. She could be back halfway into the next expansion.

If that's the case, which it won't be, doesn't that imply it's not a significant enough penance?

Why give a karmic consequence in the first place if it turns out to be the most lukewarm shit?

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

I still genuinely believe that we will help Sylvanas in the Maw and finish up her judgment and then she will just swoop to Azeroth and chill at Windrunner Spire drinking tea with her sisters and eating mana cakes.

There's no shot in hell that she's left in the Maw unless her being locked behind in the Shadowlands and her becoming some weird cosmic traveller type character for later on. But, I still don't believe that stasis argument as it would not make sense with the Narrative Teams' current ambitions.

[Vakir]

I still genuinely believe that we will help Sylvanas in the Maw and finish up her judgment and then she will just swoop to Azeroth and chill at Windrunner Spire drinking tea with her sisters and eating mana cakes.

But why tho. One final fuck you?

[Super Dickmann]

warcraft dragons are very interesting in the books (at least knaak's books) but as soon as they're part of any storyline in wow they loose all that made them interesting and charismatic. But that doesn't mean that they are not able to bring something worthwhile to the warcraft story

On paper, the idea of making most dragons friendly guardians of different aspects of the world is interesting. But for the needs of the MMO they have to actually be able to get into some kind of conflict, which is antithetical to having only one flight, the black one, be hostile. So you're left with an endless procession of other dragon types going mad and failing or creating new purple dragonflight variants who's only trait is that they're hostile. It isn't helped by how their designs are simply visually boring with every flight being a straight recolor of the next and their most obtuse powers being nixed after Cataclysm. This isn't helped by dragons in Warcraft not having threat or mystique because in the Knaak and up to Cataclysm-era they were basically everywhere and we've kicked their asses countless times.

@Foreign Exchange Ztudent

I'll withdraw all good things I've said about Shadowlands if Sylvanas features in the next expansion and declare a fatwah on every future script. Shelving Sylvanas in the Maw to free souls and find Nathanos is about as good an ending this shambles of a character arc can produce.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

But why tho. One final fuck you?

I mean, I don't know what is going on in Team 2s' head anymore. They seem to basically have moved to be completely unpredictable in their actions as of late. I expect therefore more decisions that makes completely zero sense to occur as it seems extremely likely to continue in that direction for the foreseeable future.

It doesn't make much sense to me to leave Sylvanas in the Shadowlands unless the Narrative Team are forced to move her out of the story due to higher ups. Obviously, if we follow patterns she would become some type of Alleria type character but again it is already done.

The likeliest scenario is that we help her during the 9.2.5 Epilogue Campaign and she just wooshes into nothingness. They could leave that to interpretation on both cosmic side or Azerothian side. Maybe some sort of speech before she vanishes after she's got ball form Nathanos by her side or some shtick.

At least that's what I would do and hopefully they don't put her in the next Expansion Cinematic!

@Foreign Exchange Ztudent

I'll withdraw all good things I've said about Shadowlands if Sylvanas features in the next expansion and declare a fatwah on every future script. Shelving Sylvanas in the Maw to free souls and find Nathanos is about as good an ending this shambles of a character arc can produce.

Absolutely, I would really want the whole stasis theory to be true instead and she's actually just going to become some sort of Cosmic Explorer type that shows up later on within gods knows how many expansions as it would at least leave her stuck and out of the canon for a while since it is unlikely that the Narrative Team would kill her at this point in time.

The best option is that we never ended up in the current narrative awkwardness in the first place and the Narrative Team killed her before she ended up in a situation where there's no active threat that can end her life since Tyrande was deactivated and turned into a meek kitten subservient to a goddess that is a robot who decided not to help because she wanted to help her sister who hated her because she was allegedly "kidnapped"/"Ran away".

[Pheraz]

But why tho. One final fuck you?

I fear the worst when it comes to Sylvanas. Just watch post-anduin-boss-fight-cinematic. She is already chaotic good. She runs to anduin and screams "annnduinn". She tried to rescue him. We will be annoyed by Sylvanas for at least one more expansion maybe until someone at blizzard really stands up to steve danuser and says "hey! please stop this! the players and us... we've seen enough sylvanas. it's enough. please stop!"

[Super Dickmann]

Absolutely, I would really want the whole stasis theory to be true instead and she's actually just going to become some sort of Cosmic Explorer type that shows up later on within gods knows how many expansions as it would at least leave her stuck and out of the canon for a while since it is unlikely that the Narrative Team would kill her at this point in time.

The best option is that we never ended up in the current narrative awkwardness in the first place and the Narrative Team killed her before she ended up in a situation where there's no active threat that can end her life since Tyrande was deactivated and turned into a meek kitten subservient to a goddess that is a robot who decided not to help because she wanted to help her sister who hated her because she was allegedly "kidnapped"/"Ran away".

The only glue holding the remains of this dumb storyline together is finality. Once it's done, it's done and we don't have to bother with this bullshit again. Wrapping up this character arc and shelving the character in something that's basically indefinite prison until she cools off and can be used again. To build up towards this, go through with it and then backtrack five minutes later wouldn't be surprising for Blizzard but I can't think of timing that would be worse for them. The Bald Man storytelling screams trying to wrap this crap up as soon as possible, as is cutting the datamined bits about Orgrimmar and even any use of Sylvanas's prisoner model.

Of course, ideally you never would have come to this position and you'd first not have written Sylvanas as a prop for all of BFA and then not have based her entire war crime of a character arc on the basis of the blandest villain imaginable and on her characterization from ten lines in three missions of Warcraft III. The absolute best route going off of BFA would be to make her the only villain or be using the Bald Man, have her be genuine and plausible in achieving her aim, which would be based on the Edge of Night status quo of herself and the undead being damned by default and then have her be the end boss because whatever means she uses to solve this problem aren't worth the cost.

[Vakir]

Wait. Datamined Orgrimmar stuff? I know the Sylvanas prisoner costume of course.

[Super Dickmann]

Wait. Datamined Orgrimmar stuff?

There were strings with "Sylvanas Orgrimmar" in the PTR and she has that prisoner model. Danuser also said we'd 'explore' how she got to that point. But it looks like all of this got cut since she only ever uses her ranger outfit in the game, which convinces me that we're doing a speedrun of this arc so we can be done with it. Now don't interrupt me, I need another barrel of copium, my supplies are running dangerously low.

[Vakir]

I bet that fucker had this "epic tearjerker" scene planned where she has this "glorious" speech about the renewal of her heroism and from rags dons the old Ranger General armor to the delight of like, 3 people.

I've rarely been happy when art falls victim to deadlines and pipelines, but...

[Futhark]

At this point, it would be really interesting if the Aspects have reflected on the Age of Mortals and realized it was a huge mistake. Deathwing might have been an oopsie, but other than that, they held things together for Azeroth for thousands of years. Since they gave up their powers, we've resurrected two Old Golds, merged with an alternate timeline, brought another Legion invasion and almost got reality destroyed by the realm of Death. In, like, a 10 year timespan!

Maybe they have had enough. Why wouldn't they view us Mortals(death elementals, really) as the bad guys and try to stop us? How neat would an expansion be where we are viewed as the antagonists, maybe not just of the Aspects, but Azeroth herself?

[Super Dickmann]

I bet that fucker had this "epic tearjerker" scene planned where she has this "glorious" speech about the renewal of her heroism and from rags dons the old Ranger General armor to the delight of like, 3 people.

I've rarely been happy when art falls victim to deadlines and pipelines, but...

One extreme benefit of SL getting cut short is that we didn't get a full high definition multimillion dollar Sylvanas cinematic series like BFA's Sadfang Chronicles.

[Vakir]

@Futhark

Perhaps from that they shall seek to form an...Empire?

Oh, right. >_>

I mean, it makes sense. I wouldn't trust us with the keys at this point. BFA confirmed that both world superpowers are immensely stupid and fickle, and then SL proceeded to confirm we are too with bringing the last Sigil to the Jailer's mancave.

One extreme benefit of SL getting cut short is that we didn't get a full high definition multimillion dollar Sylvanas cinematic series like BFA's Sadfang Chronicles.

What is this emotion I'm feeling? I almost want to see it. Just to see if someone can topple Neil Breen, satirical or not.

[Sondrelk]

There were strings with "Sylvanas Orgrimmar" in the PTR and she has that prisoner model. Danuser also said we'd 'explore' how she got to that point. But it looks like all of this got cut since she only ever uses her ranger outfit in the game, which convinces me that we're doing a speedrun of this arc so we can be done with it. Now don't interrupt me, I need another barrel of copium, my supplies are running dangerously low.

Don't forget how we are not actually given any explanation for why Sylvanas is in the raid, or what she expects to be avle to do. Bolvar talks big about how "it's a bad idea to trust her", and Uther replies that he stakes his honour on it working, and then nothing really happens.
Seems to me like this was originally intended to be the beginning to a more Bluevanas-centric plotline where we maybe do some quests with her, but nothing, the quest just does something else and suddenly Bluevanas is in the raid.

If I were to guess I would say that Blizzard had started making the Anduin cinematic, and couldn't really excise Bluevanas from the raid without creating plotholes, so they just had to cram her in despite it not really being set up at all.



Or maybe it will be a part of a later questline. The whole epilogue questline wasn't shown on the PTR, and while I have been burned on this before with the Sanctum epilogue, I could see the quest being a bit more elaborate.

[Super Dickmann]

At this point, it would be really interesting if the Aspects have reflected on the Age of Mortals and realized it was a huge mistake. Deathwing might have been an oopsie, but other than that, they held things together for Azeroth for thousands of years. Since they gave up their powers, we've resurrected two Old Golds, merged with an alternate timeline, brought another Legion invasion and almost got reality destroyed by the realm of Death. In, like, a 10 year timespan!

Maybe they have had enough. Why wouldn't they view us Mortals(death elementals, really) as the bad guys and try to stop us? How neat would an expansion be where we are viewed as the antagonists, maybe not just of the Aspects, but Azeroth herself?

Odyn is the one who really had it all figured out. He knew that empowering the Dragons would completely fuck up because they're untrustworthy and that people were unreliable morons who'd doom the universe, which is why he cut the Curse of Flesh out of the equation by making everyone a golden robot bodybuilder. Being constantly proven right over the millennia must weigh on him.

@Sondrelk

I remain 100% convinced there was an extra patch and that the gap after Anduin is an extremely cut down version of whatever would have happened over that patch's storyline character-wise. The entire bit with Sylvanas being there to 'activate' Anduin and help him break free and Anduin knowing how to counteract domination magic except not really are the results of the writers hastily stitching it back together enough for it to ship. It's why such a big deal is made out of how we must save Anduin so he can help us figure out the rest, only for Anduin to quite reasonably know absolutely fuck all and us asking the Primus instead.

I suspect there'll be a short questline before Tyrande punts Sylvanas into the Maw, but at best as many quests as a standard questline. It could also just be the intro and then hell.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

The only glue holding the remains of this dumb storyline together is finality. Once it's done, it's done and we don't have to bother with this bullshit again. Wrapping up this character arc and shelving the character in something that's basically indefinite prison until she cools off and can be used again. To build up towards this, go through with it and then backtrack five minutes later wouldn't be surprising for Blizzard but I can't think of timing that would be worse for them. The Bald Man storytelling screams trying to wrap this crap up as soon as possible, as is cutting the datamined bits about Orgrimmar and even any use of Sylvanas's prisoner model.

Of course, ideally you never would have come to this position and you'd first not have written Sylvanas as a prop for all of BFA and then not have based her entire war crime of a character arc on the basis of the blandest villain imaginable and on her characterization from ten lines in three missions of Warcraft III. The absolute best route going off of BFA would be to make her the only villain or be using the Bald Man, have her be genuine and plausible in achieving her aim, which would be based on the Edge of Night status quo of herself and the undead being damned by default and then have her be the end boss because whatever means she uses to solve this problem aren't worth the cost.

I mean it still contradicts the whole "GALACTUS IS COMING BTW" hint hint nudge nudge that the Narrative Team has been playing up. Obviously, I was expecting Bald Man to actually do something and or at least showcase the damage that Bald Man did aka showcasing the "Fracture" in the Pattern. But, none of it happened beyond a really confusing scene where Bald Man evaporates before our eyes without any context as to why he does beyond beaten by some adventurers from Azeroth redoing the whole shtick about us always winning.

It just seems like they realized they could have some room to play with the Sylvanas storyline due to everyone telling them to do a epilogue chapter and now they seem to've established that there are going to be epilogue chapters in the final patch of the expansion moving forward. As always, I think the whole situation is goofy but I think the Narrative Team really wants to make sure she's safe and sound no matter what as it currently stands.

Don't forget how we are not actually given any explanation for why Sylvanas is in the raid, or what she expects to be avle to do. Bolvar talks big about how "it's a bad idea to trust her", and Uther replies that he stakes his honour on it working, and then nothing really happens.
Seems to me like this was originally intended to be the beginning to a more Bluevanas-centric plotline where we maybe do some quests with her, but nothing, the quest just does something else and suddenly Bluevanas is in the raid.

If I were to guess I would say that Blizzard had started making the Anduin cinematic, and couldn't really excise Bluevanas from the raid without creating plotholes, so they just had to cram her in despite it not really being set up at all.



Or maybe it will be a part of a later questline. The whole epilogue questline wasn't shown on the PTR, and while I have been burned on this before with the Sanctum epilogue, I could see the quest being a bit more elaborate.

I feel like things got out of hand internally around the time this would've been in production. Also again, it is pretty obvious that the Zovaal Cinematic being shorter than N'zoth cinematic by 13 seconds that something was amiss with the entire raid.

Obviously, they've never been good at adding lore characters to the mix of dungeons and raids and especially once they've started using them in cinematics for the raid as they always seem comedically like puppets for the maestro to play rather than actual characters.

It could be that they intended for her to sacrifice herself but realized that would be a bad idea. But, at the same time I don't really believe in that theory at all. Considering they always planned for her to be spared by Tyrande Whisperwind and nothing on the PTR seemed to indicate she wouldn't survive the raid.

[Sondrelk]

I bet that fucker had this "epic tearjerker" scene planned where she has this "glorious" speech about the renewal of her heroism and from rags dons the old Ranger General armor to the delight of like, 3 people.

I've rarely been happy when art falls victim to deadlines and pipelines, but...

Or maybe they realized they were about to crash horribly and decided to course correct to the best of their abilities by removing all Sylvanas stuff that wasn't strictly necessary to the assets already made.

Imagine for instance they saw the absolutely horrendous backlash to the whole Bluevanas cinematic, realized a redemption arc would just make things worse, but couldn't completely remove her as that would just leave massive gals in the story, not to mention they wouldn't have had anything to replace it with. So as a compromise solution they just removed all quests with her in it.

[ercarp]

Here's a fun recompilation of therewillbedragons's 'leaks'. I do find these ones kind of interesting, they're keeping up their claim lol

The continent/landmass/islands seems fun!

Thanks for compiling them.

Even if this is fake, which it probably is, it's kind of funny (or sad, depending on your perspective) that the fans always seem to put way more thought and creativity into making these leaks than Blizzard puts into the actual story. I've seen so many good leaks over the years that make sense, and then when the actual expansion comes out, it's just filled with retcons, plot holes, wasted potential, and a story written by a 6-year-old.

So if one wanted to make a BELIEVABLE leak, they would have to channel the inner stupidity of Danuser's writing and Hazzikostas's anti-fun game design philosophy to come up with something mediocre.

[Shadochi]

At this point, it would be really interesting if the Aspects have reflected on the Age of Mortals and realized it was a huge mistake. Deathwing might have been an oopsie, but other than that, they held things together for Azeroth for thousands of years. Since they gave up their powers, we've resurrected two Old Golds, merged with an alternate timeline, brought another Legion invasion and almost got reality destroyed by the realm of Death. In, like, a 10 year timespan!

Maybe they have had enough. Why wouldn't they view us Mortals(death elementals, really) as the bad guys and try to stop us? How neat would an expansion be where we are viewed as the antagonists, maybe not just of the Aspects, but Azeroth herself?

And to be honest since then mortals caused to death of one of the former Aspects (Ysera).
But I was also thinking this morning that an expansion where we are viewed as antagonists would be interesting. But this feels more like something for a Singleplayer game story than for an MMO since im not sure how that would work for launch and 2-3 patches besides us or the getting cleansed from whatever mystery corruption in .1 or .2

[Sondrelk]

One extreme benefit of SL getting cut short is that we didn't get a full high definition multimillion dollar Sylvanas cinematic series like BFA's Sadfang Chronicles.

I already feel bad for the cinematic team having to create the Sadfang stuff just to prop up such a doomed project. Demanding they try to redeem someone as unredeemable as Sylvanas would just be sad.