Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Varodoc]

Surely people here don't expect Murozond and Vexiona to carry an entire expansion right? And who else would be there? Galakrond? A hulking brute beast? Chromatus? A beast whose entire existence revolves around him being a pawn and an experiment?

There is no other way, for a Dragon Isles expansion to be interesting, the deities of the Void will have to be involved. As cunning and mysterious as he is, in the end Murozond (the smartest of the aforementioned) is not Main Villain material, and indeed he was relegated to a mere dungeon boss in Cataclysm.

[Fahrad Wagner]

There's the various elemental languages like Kalimag which already exist and Titanic is a language as well, so Draconic is fairly low on the totem pole. It's why I figure it's deliberate foreshadowing to upcoming changes to dragon lore.

That was my thought as well, a not-so-subtle wink at players regarding what is to come!

[Pheraz]

Surely people here don't expect Murozond and Vexiona to carry an entire expansion right? And who else would be there? Galakrond? A hulking brute beast? Chromatus? A beast whose entire existence revolves around him being a pawn and an experiment?

There is no other way, for a Dragon Isles expansion to be interesting, the deities of the Void will have to be involved. As cunning and mysterious as he is, in the end Murozond (the smartest of the aforementioned) is not Main Villain material, and indeed he was relegated to a mere dungeon boss in Cataclysm.

I agree - unless Blizzard decides to move away from the us vs the uber villain expansions.
Vanilla also worked abs. fine without an uber-mega-villain at all. Just a big world, local threats, maybe some bigger threats and us exploring the world and defeating those local scumbags

[Baedril]

Just waiting for the next "big leak" to talk about. We've exhausted a lot of speculation at this point (IMO). However, I imagine as we get closer to April 19th (and if a 9.2.5 PTR goes up soonTM), this may change. Lastly, today is the Hearthstone announcement. I don't play the game, though I'm curious what gets announced.

Yeah, this. I think depending on what the hearthstone announcement is, it could flare up a lot of speculation again. Even if there's probably(?) never been a connection between a new hearthstone expansion and an unannounced wow expansion.

Iirc they already confirmed we would get a pattern of cosmic > grounded > cosmic > grounded expansions from now on.

Anyone got the quote/article where they say this?

[Ersula]

I agree - unless Blizzard decides to move away from the us vs the uber villain expansions.
Vanilla also worked abs. fine without an uber-mega-villain at all. Just a big world, local threats, maybe some bigger threats and us exploring the world and defeating those local scumbags

Honestly the Uber mega villains are their best bet, storywise. The problem is they fucked up N'zoth & The Jailer's characterization real bad. Namely that his entire premise seemed to be he wouldn't get a clear motive until the moment the Jailer died & that's a bad storytelling convention of Steven-Moffat-onian proportions.

[Varodoc]

I agree - unless Blizzard decides to move away from the us vs the uber villain expansions.
Vanilla also worked abs. fine without an uber-mega-villain at all. Just a big world, local threats, maybe some bigger threats and us exploring the world and defeating those local scumbags

Right, but then you have people here complaining that one of the flaws of Cataclysm is that the main villain was a big dumb dragon... but at the same time, they want Galakrond or Chromatus as main villain of 10.0??? Literally Deathwing was smarter than both of them combined since he was at least smart enough to manipulate the Alliance of Lordaeron for some time. So people complain that Deathwing was a bad villain but then they want an even dumber dragon as villain of 10.0

There's a reason why people want N'Zoth to come back, and it's because he had charisma, a quality that 90% of the WoW villains lack.

[Sondrelk]

Surely people here don't expect Murozond and Vexiona to carry an entire expansion right? And who else would be there? Galakrond? A hulking brute beast? Chromatus? A beast whose entire existence revolves around him being a pawn and an experiment?

There is no other way, for a Dragon Isles expansion to be interesting, the deities of the Void will have to be involved. As cunning and mysterious as he is, in the end Murozond (the smartest of the aforementioned) is not Main Villain material, and indeed he was relegated to a mere dungeon boss in Cataclysm.

I think Galakrond would be an amazing box art villain. This giant force of nature that is supported on all sides by various draconic factions.
That is afterall pretty much how Deathwing worked as a villain. He was the main box art villain we fought at the end, but we rarely actually saw or interracted with him, instead we just fought his various flunkies and occasionally got incinerates by him while levelling.

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Right, but then you have people here complaining that one of the flaws of Cataclysm is that the main villain was a big dumb dragon... but at the same time, they want Galakrond or Chromatus as main villain of 10.0??? Literally Deathwing was smarter than both of them combined since he was at least smart enough to manipulate the Alliance of Lordaeron for some time. So people complain that Deathwing was a bad villain but then they want an even dumber dragon as villain of 10.0

There's a reason why people want N'Zoth to come back, and it's because he had charisma, a quality that 90% of the WoW villains lack.

You can have both honestly. Giant big mindless force of nature dragon, but supported by various charismatic villains like Murozond.

[Varodoc]

I think Galakrond would be an amazing box art villain. This giant force of nature that is supported on all sides by various draconic factions.
That is afterall pretty much how Deathwing worked as a villain. He was the main box art villain we fought at the end, but we rarely actually saw or interracted with him, instead we just fought his various flunkies and occasionally got incinerates by him while levelling.

Yes, but when you look at the rankings of the main WoW villains, Deathwing generally ranks at the end or near the end (probably the latter, after the Jailer's introduction).

Looks like people don't like the big dumb dragon threat. It is therefore not a surprise that the community prefers villains like Azshara, Denathrius, and Lei-Shen, who frankly are the exact opposite of Deathwing and Galakrond.

This is the same for Skyrim btw, pretty much everyone agrees that Alduin is a bad villain.

You can have both honestly. Giant big mindless force of nature dragon, but supported by various charismatic villains like Murozond.

So what the Jailer was supposed to be, and that worked how so well right

The Jailer theoretically was supposed to be a major force of nature, the personification of Death, like the Night King from Game of Thrones. But he was also supposed to be charismatic, because he deceived Sylvanas and a lot of other people to serve him.

But now the Jailer is considered to be the worst villain in all of WoW ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Sondrelk]

Yes, but when you look at the rankings of the main WoW villains, Deathwing generally ranks at the end or near the end (probably the latter, after the Jailer's introduction).

Looks like people don't like the big dumb dragon threat. It is therefore not a surprise that the community prefers villains like Azshara, Denathrius, and Lei-Shen, who frankly are the exact opposite of Deathwing and Galakrond.



So what the Jailer was supposed to be, and that worked how so well right

The Jailer theoretically was supposed to be a major force of nature, the personification of Death, like the Night King from Game of Thrones. But he was also supposed to be charismatic, because he deceived Sylvanas and a lot of other people to serve him.

But now the Jailer is considered to be the worst villain in all of WoW ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well I would argue that the Jailer would have worked better if he had even less character. Just completely remove any pretense of this scheming villain and instead just make him a force of nature. Characters who help doesnt do it because he promises them riches or whatever, but because they are opportunistic.

[Pheraz]

Right, but then you have people here complaining that one of the flaws of Cataclysm is that the main villain was a big dumb dragon... but at the same time, they want Galakrond or Chromatus as main villain of 10.0??? Literally Deathwing was smarter than both of them combined since he was at least smart enough to manipulate the Alliance of Lordaeron for some time. So people complain that Deathwing was a bad villain but then they want an even dumber dragon as villain of 10.0

There's a reason why people want N'Zoth to come back, and it's because he had charisma, a quality that 90% of the WoW villains lack.

N'zoth was def. the best villain in WoW ever. Sad thing that they wasted so much potential. He could have carried at least one

[Varodoc]

N'zoth was def. the best villain in WoW ever. Sad thing that they wasted so much potential. He could have carried at least one

N'Zoth

Xal'atath (aka Knaifu)

Azshara

Denathrius

Murozond (but NOT as main villain because I don't think he's that important in the end, he was just a 5 man boss...)

Genn Greymane (cited as example of potential Alliance drama)

There's actually plenty of charismatic villains they can use in the future and all of them would make sense for a Dragon Isles expansion (maybe Denathrius also sent agents to infiltrate the domain of Life?).

Villains like Galakrond and Chromatus can also appear but, clearly, they would just be beasts, all brawns and no brain...

[Nyel]

There is no other way, for a Dragon Isles expansion to be interesting..

I think there are plenty of ways how Dragons can work without the Void. An unknown entity is killing Dragons (maybe even Aspects?) and we have to solve who it is and why it's happening. Could be completely unrelated to the Void or it's Xalatath who just returned. I think it would be a good start if one of the Aspects died, most likely Nozdormu. Alexstrasza is too popular and Wrathion too new, Ysera just died... so it leaves only Kalecgos and Nozdormu. With Wrathion being the male and Alexstrasza being the female protagonist, this leaves not many options.

Imagine this as a kind of murder mystery that unfolds over the expansion and we do not know who the killer is until the last patch. Give us an uknown villain in a MoP-type expansion and everything will be fine. Don't make it another expansion where we know right from the announcement who the endboss will be. And don't make it like BfA where you don't say who the endboss is but everything knows it because you're so bad at hiding it.

[Varodoc]

I think there are plenty of ways how Dragons can work without the Void. An unknown entity is killing Dragons (maybe even Aspects?) and we have to solve who it is and why it's happening. Could be completely unrelated to the Void or it's Xalatath who just returned. I think it would be a good start if one of the Aspects died, most likely Nozdormu. Alexstrasza is too popular and Wrathion too new, Ysera just died... so it leaves only Kalecgos and Nozdormu. With Wrathion being the male and Alexstrasza being the female protagonist, this leaves not many options.

Yeah because it worked so well the last time they asspulled an unknown entity that is threatening everything.

Xal'atah wouldn't be "unknown" (at least from a meta perspective) because players know and love her, which is why it was a smart writing decision to separate her from the blade, giving her agency in the story. Now they can use her as a villain and she is very interesting, because we don't know what she is. She could be an Old God from another world or another era.

[Nyel]

Yeah because it worked so well the last time they asspulled an unknown entity that is threatening everything.

Xal'atah wouldn't be "unknown" (at least from a meta perspective) because players know and love her, which is why it was a smart writing decision to separate her from the blade, giving her agency in the story. Now they can use her as a villain and she is very interesting, because we don't know what she is. She could be an Old God from another world or another era.

Imagine this as a kind of murder mystery that unfolds over the course of the expansion and we do not know who the killer is until the last patch. Give us an uknown villain in a MoP-type expansion and everything will be fine. Don't make it another expansion where we know right from the announcement who the endboss will be (aka Shadowlands, which was an undeniable flop from a story perspective). And don't make it like BfA where you don't say who the endboss is but everyone knows it because you're so bad at hiding it (oh and don't mix two major plots that have absolutely nothing in common).

And I said Xalatath as an example for the void being responsible for this. So it's either an unknown entity OR the Void (maybe in form of Xalatath). I wasn't referencing her as the unknown. She's cleary very popular.

[ZyntosAran]

Yeah, this. I think depending on what the hearthstone announcement is, it could flare up a lot of speculation again. Even if there's probably(?) never been a connection between a new hearthstone expansion and an unannounced wow expansion.



Anyone got the quote/article where they say this?

Hearthstone Expansion is Nazjatar.

[Nyel]

Yeah, this. I think depending on what the hearthstone announcement is, it could flare up a lot of speculation again. Even if there's probably(?) never been a connection between a new hearthstone expansion and an unannounced wow expansion.

It's Voyage to the Sunken City. Most likely Nazjatar / Naga themed, although Nazjatar isn't a sunken city (anymore). Some say it could be Nyalotha, but that doesn't make much sense either. Queen Azshara is the new Mage skin though, so it has definitely to do with Naga.

https://twitter.com/ZeddyHS/status/1...vjab_1BPgCyetg

[Varodoc]

It's Voyage to the Sunken City. Most likely Nazjatar / Naga themed, although Nazjatar isn't a sunken city (anymore). Some say it could be Nyalotha, but that doesn't make much sense either. Queen Azshara is the new Mage skin though, so it has definitely to do with Naga.

https://twitter.com/ZeddyHS/status/1...vjab_1BPgCyetg

Ah Yes, Nazjatar, the city of N'Zoth's minions, located next to N'Zoth's prison.

What is this hinting about the future of WoW?

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And btw, Ny'alotha, and not Nazjatar, is consistently referred to as the "Sunken City":

In the sunken city, he lays dreaming. (Puzzle-box of Yogg-Saron, referring to Ny'alotha and N'Zoth)

Vol'zith the Whisperer ability, Grasp of the Sunken City

[Raetary]

You can see the Nazjatar art in the background...

Anyway, its clearly Zin'azshari themed.
Which is a literal sunken city.

Hence why the hero portrait is regular Azshara and not her Naga form.

[Vakir]

Also, this week's acid trip cutscene on top of being fairly fun, also further leans into the upcoming Dragon retcon. The Oracle interfaces in several languages, Draconic being one of them. Dragons are likely to be tied more directly to elementals and from there to Life.

Yeah, I remembered it later in the thread - that proto-dragons are evolved elementals.

Maybe that means expanding from them that they'll be less boring but...(X) Doubt.

[GabrielKnight]

Someone sent me this recently, seems legit.

https://imgur.com/uG8hUuB

So basically Taelia starts to bitch too much and Bolvar goes ape shit. There's like 126 writers working on it right now, especifically chosen because they're black or women.