Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Vakir]

Afrasiabi was fired in June 2020. Well enough into development, but not 7 months after Shadowlands launched, and certainly not enough to have had a direct impact on poor writing choices they themselves made on the fly.

You also can't say someone is a toxic saboteur trying to destroy a character out of spite towards Kosack's Garrosh writing, which is the narrative posed by those same VAs, while also saying they're responsible for writing that consistently rewards and softens that same character. It's incompatible.

Delusions are delusions.

EDIT: I hope Tinkers happen so I never need to see threadshitting about them ever again.

[Ersula]

Afrasiabi was fired in June 2020. Well enough into development, but not 7 months after Shadowlands launched

I didn't say 7 months after shadowlands launched: I said 7 months into Shadowlands development, aka June 2020. They've said repeatedly they start work on the next expansion the day the previous expansion is released. 7.0, 8.0, 9.0 etc is the result of two years of work.

They've literally said in interviews that the exact lines and progression of events at the end of 9.1, let alone everything after, was decided over the course of the pandemic.

This can't keep being an excuse. They're all hacks. But you know this. You're not being sincere.

You're not being sincere. The cinematics take 6+ months plus. Zereth Mortis could have been created wholesale during 9.1, but the outline of the plot, the order of events is way more particular and would have been set in stone when Golden started the Sylvanas book back in 2020. Notice how everyone in the voice acting says the "Sepulcher" a term first introduced in 9.1 but nothing specific about Zareth Mortis.

[Sugani]

Here are the plot points of 10.0.

Gallywix uses the tech he gets from Tazavesh after his deal with the brokers as a means to get a pardon of his war crimes so that mother can use it to find the dragon isles with the help of the Tinkers Union. This is how we get tinkers.

The void will attack the dragon isles, lead by sinestra. The dragon isles are the origin of life on azeroth.

Gallywix will be a boss down the exp cycle after exploiting the isles.

Back on EK. Anduin has returned but isn't fit to rule as per his trauma. Turqlyon keep the thrown for now, yet he is pressured by the nobles to take back lorederon.

Calia and the forsaken rebuild lorederon. This will be the faction conflict. Turalyon pressured by the storm wind nobles to expand. Now that sylv is gone. Scarlet crusade joins in an uneasy alliance.

So there you go...

Dragons, tinkers, Gallywix, calia vs turalyonn, void vs life.

This all sounds absolutely awful.

[Vakir]

I didn't say 7 months after shadowlands launched: I said 7 months into Shadowlands development, aka June 2020. They've said repeatedly they start work on the next expansion the day the previous expansion is released. 7.0, 8.0, 9.0 etc is the result of two years of work.You're not being sincere. The cinematics take 6+ months plus. Zereth Mortis could have been created wholesale during 9.1, but the outline of the plot, the order of events is way more particular and would have been set in stone when Golden started the Sylvanas book back in 2020. Notice how everyone in the voice acting says the "Sepulcher" a term first introduced in 9.1 but nothing specific about Zareth Mortis.

That's just not how development works. The very specific details regarding all of this are hammered out later in the cycle. The project planning stages aren't as significantly defined and story usually takes a lower rung of development for Blizzard, particularly in regards to the patch content, which is what we're discussing. In terms of the actual cinematics, Terran Gregory and the team involved, including the voice actors, stated that they were still deciding on the exact delivery, details, and individual character beats for 9.1's finale as the patch was in the works long after launch content had been finalized mid-Pandemic, which was after he had been dropped. To say nothing of changes to SL as a whole, which they maintain was always intended to be this long, but obviously we all know better.

The Sepulcher is such a vague and non-descript term, not counting the reality that it's named for an actual real world concept, that we don't even know if Zereth Mortis as it stands right now was intended from the beginning to be what it is now. It's an ill-defined location Macguffin. It was also introduced at launch, not in 9.1, via the Primus.

The hoops you jump through to give these hacks a fair shake is legendary when they've routinely proven to be pretty bad at their job.

As it stands, if there's ever any actual facts supporting that Afrasiabi having Sylvanas torch Teldrassil was a malicious hack job, how do we reconcile that with Shadowlands taking an almost 180 on her character? Can you at least answer that?

[Varx]

This all sounds absolutely awful.

Don't look at me, that's what blizz has set up.

Gallywix is in Tazavesh having a meeting with brokers. Chances are he's getting some crazy broker/first ones tech.

If wrathion and mother are searching for help and turn to the Tinkers Union in Undermine Gallywix might show up with said tech in an attempt to pardon himself by helping the aspects find the isles. He of course runs off to exploit w/e he can, ultimately becoming a boss.

The void will probably use the rift zovaal left to use in an attempt to attack azeroth via the corruption left in the dream. Sinestra is alive and will probably lead those void forces.


As for EK. The sw nobles are in fact supporting turalyon. Anduin probably isn't in the right mind frame to rule and will take a sabbatical. Now that sylv is gone it's the perfect opportunity to take back lorederon.

Since calia is supporting the forsaken, she will prob end up standing against turalyon.

I'm just reading the terrain.

[Ersula]

so your saying hes the reason we get "i did it for the greater good" which is a big fuck you and turn around in her character
or do you really believe that they werent transitioning to allow steve to be in charge??

Do you think Afrasiasbi was planning on being fired for sexual harassment?

This is the first point in history WoW only has one game director. Ion. Traditionally one of the Game Directors takes charge of the story but they've all vanished suddenly after this scandal. Danuser didn't get promoted, yet he's suddenly in charge of the story? For all these reasons its very clear this was Afrasiasbi's baby. Especially since based on Danuser's comments he's looking forward to wiping the slate clean & starting fresh with a new story next expansion. Much like how a new showrunner on a TV show doesn't want to continue the previous' writers story threads.

That's just not how development works. The very specific details regarding all of this are hammered out later in the cycle. The project planning stages aren't as significantly defined and story usually takes a lower rung of development for Blizzard, particularly in regards to the patch content,

We're not talking about Patch content. We're talking about the Jailer & Sylvanas' story arc: The content of the book the writer started over 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure she's got to know the plan.

[Vakir]

We're not talking about Patch content. We're talking about the Jailer & Sylvanas' story arc: The content of the book the writer started over 2 years ago.

I mean, I, the only person who evidently matters here, am indeed talking about patch content. I'm talking about what they themselves said about 9.1...which is patch content. The fact that nothing about the story itself was finalized in regards to the finale cinematic of Sanctum of Domination at that time indicates that nothing else was either. Which means it was a conscious decision by the current writers to take that story direction. The Sylvanas book being written in 2020 doesn't mean that the entire manuscript or individual story details in the last chunk were finalized, especially since so much of it is contingent on flashbacks from far before SL or adaptations of actual game events that Golden can write without that knowledge.

On the topic of Sanctum and its finale:

We had the sense that players would be contending with Sylvanas for a while now, that they would be delving into and learning more about the nature of the Maw, and the Jailer’s power in this first major content update. But, the specific details of the twists and turns the story is going to take, who the bosses in the raid are, even some of the major narrative moments that we’re going to see play out in the coming weeks are things that came together at the end of last year, and the beginning of this year.

When they say "this year," this was in 2021.

It's possible Ion, the one delivering the quote, is wrong, but he also said 9.1 is the first time that development was done entirely from home, and in June 2020 development was still underway on launch content.

The simple fact is that there's clear signs of pivoting and they're at best just as bad and in some ways worse.

If Afrasiabi planned the entire story from 2020 (lol) and laid it out and they changed nothing, they're all hacks.

If they planned some of this on the fly to undo the damage from BFA and turning her into a villain caricature, but still bungled it this hard, they're all hacks.

If Afrasiabi planned to have her become a villain caricature but also made this story that suspiciously seems like a redemption arc that Danuser would write...well, he seems to have fucking Dissociative Identity Disorder then, but needless to say that he and the current team remain hacks.

There is no reality or theoretical situation here where the current people still employed leave without the presence of SOME egg on their face.

[Revamp Man]

Do you think Afrasiasbi was planning on being fired for sexual harassment?

This is the first point in history WoW only has one game director. Ion. Traditionally one of the Game Directors takes charge of the story but they've all vanished suddenly after this scandal. Danuser didn't get promoted, yet he's suddenly in charge of the story? For all these reasons its very clear this was Afrasiasbi's baby. Especially since based on Danuser's comments he's looking forward to wiping the slate clean & starting fresh with a new story next expansion. Much like how a new showrunner on a TV show doesn't want to continue the previous' writers story threads.
We're not talking about Patch content. We're talking about the Jailer & Sylvanas' story arc: The content of the book the writer started over 2 years ago. I'm pretty sure she's got to know the plan.

so you want us to believe that overnight they kicked cosby jr and redid the story team structure

and again im not singling danuser out because they all suck

[Sharby]

Do you guys think we are keeping our Covenant abilities (the utility ones) after Shadowlands? More specifically soulshape, I think it might mess with balancing, but they put so much effort into all the forms you can get just to toss it after 1 expac.



Then again the other 3 covenant utilities would be kinda crappy in comparison when there is no power involved.

[delphiskye]

Hey been on ptr last night is this new in silermoon? the blood elf priest mind controlling the two trying to warn that the city is in danger and Magisters are bad guys to the crowd. After he mcs them they start saying magic's great

[Holdodlig]

Hey been on ptr last night is this new in silermoon? the blood elf priest mind controlling the two trying to warn that the city is in danger and Magisters are bad guys to the crowd. After he mcs them they start saying magic's great

Been here since BC. Back then, Belves were shown as totalitarian who enslaves by any mean necessary their opponent. You can also find gnomes in a tailoring shop's cave.

[Syegfryed]

Tbh it was missing a class. That would have probably been enough to please most people.

just like WoD missed the train to give us ogres and another race for the alliance, shadowlands also failed in giving us necromancers

fucking missed opportunities both expansions, both ruined and cut short, both dimensional travel bs

- - - Updated - - -

Good news: The people who wrote this story were all fired for sexual harassment.

Everyone's pinning this on Danuser but he was only in charge of worldbuilding until 7 months into Shadowlands when Afrasiabi was fired, as in, after the plot is already set in stone, assuming the voice actors take on what happened is to be trusted.

are going to keep spreading this falsehood? afrasiabi was no longer in control of the story after BfA lauched, Danuser was in charge of shadowlands, he change this awful story and give us more sylvanas than any living being can swallow.

[ExiHext]

Do you guys think we are keeping our Covenant abilities (the utility ones) after Shadowlands? More specifically soulshape, I think it might mess with balancing, but they put so much effort into all the forms you can get just to toss it after 1 expac.



Then again the other 3 covenant utilities would be kinda crappy in comparison when there is no power involved.

I guess they will only work in SL content...as far as I remember Door of Shadows is used for some puzzles in Revendreth (might misremember) and the kyrian steward is used in at least one dungeon to get a buff. Don't know about the other covenants. They will likely not be usable in other content for the reasons you mentioned.

[Lahis]

Do you guys think we are keeping our Covenant abilities (the utility ones) after Shadowlands? More specifically soulshape, I think it might mess with balancing, but they put so much effort into all the forms you can get just to toss it after 1 expac.

Then again the other 3 covenant utilities would be kinda crappy in comparison when there is no power involved.

We are not keeping any of them.

And Soulshapes aren't that much work. Just take a random animal model and apply the transparent ghost effect on them.

[Kiria]

The attempts to make Sylvanas seem less like a genocidal maniac and more like some tragic victim just come off as weak and pathetic. I actually prefer the genocidal maniac.

Her character needs to be put on ice for a long time.

I'm glad her story has been fleshed out more and I would be perfectly happy to see her attend more future expansions.

[Sondrelk]

We are not keeping any of them.

And Soulshapes aren't that much work. Just take a random animal model and apply the transparent ghost effect on them.

The soulshapes are unique in how much effort you put into gathering all of them though. Seems like a waste to relegate all that effort to the bin.

The actual movement speed buff might be on the chopping block, but I would be quite annoyed if we don't at least get a toy that can be used in rested areas to show off your soulshapes.

[Lahis]

The soulshapes are unique in how much effort you put into gathering all of them though. Seems like a waste to relegate all that effort to the bin.

The actual movement speed buff might be on the chopping block, but I would be quite annoyed if we don't at least get a toy that can be used in rested areas to show off your soulshapes.

Collecting Essences was also pain in the ass, but we won't ever be seeing them again, despite the max rank even having unique spell effects.

[Cosmic Janitor]

That is, a very future expansion. 15.0. Or.. better 20.0. When she is done farming souls in the maw for redemption. Danuser calls it "Punishment". The devs called it "fun gameplay". Seems Danuser was right.

I can't help but smile at all the (unintended) meta commentary in SL's story..

[Fahrad Wagner]

I can't help but smile at all the (unintended) meta commentary in SL's story..

It really says a lot doesn't it? So much dissonance within that team... it's crazy. I really feel sometimes they forget this is supposed to be a game.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It really says a lot doesn't it? So much dissonance within that team... it's crazy. I really feel sometimes they forget this is supposed to be a game.

To be fair, half the stuff you see from the regular dev team is just ass-covering and PR nonsense anyway. Even then they themselves admitted rather early (still too late) that the maw wasn't very fun and the idea of going for something oppressive as a gameplay choice didn't work out, even if it makes sense from a narrative PoV. I think the biggest dissonance here is mostly with the type of player that WoW has acquired and the established meta gameplay that permeates the endgame structure of WoW. There is also something to be said about the narrative tools in WoW simply not being developed enough to make a hell level/dream/episode work. This can work in a game like Max Payne, Farcry 3/4, Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice or Catherine, not in a game like WoW where you are always on the clock and the moment you load in you stand there in your pink slutmog cleaving worldbosses in twain ticking your daily grind boxes.

Edit: Btw, I finally listend to the Kadghar sound file and I already dread where this shit is going. Either he will be yet again another fucking dreadlord, which was grating in Korthia and has since exponentially become more aggravating, or they plan to kill him off to replace him with their new rubbish characters that no one cares about, even if they have to force a complete 180 on his established personality.

The Sylvanas punishment was something I and others (you are welcome Blizzard) predicted/proposed long before and it was the only way to salvage this without killing her off or handwaving her crimes. Therefore I'm not surprised they went with that. That they drag this out until the 9.2.5 patch though...