Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nyel]

Also weren’t you part of the “no 8.3” group?

So what? It's getting tiring to here this again and again. Yes, I said there is no 8.3 because the whole expansion was a storytelling mess. I was wrong, I acknowledge it. So what?

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I’m guessing 2023 because of patch lengths
You say 2022 because WoD

I don't say 2022 because of WoD. I say 2022 because

a) it lines up perfectly with ending Shadowlands on 9.2,
b) it being the financially better solution,
c) 9.1 being more like a .2 patch and wrapping up lose ends while acting as an interlude to the finale and
d) WoD as a precedent especially during an (ongoing) pandemic that delayed everything.

By the way, when you say you're guessing 2023 because of patch lenghts you even (partially) agree on a).

[Makabreska]

So what? It's getting tiring to here this again and again. Yes, I said there is no 8.3 because the whole expansion was a storytelling mess. I was wrong, I acknowledge it. So what?

Because you repeat exact same shit again. You spew out guesses and present them as facts that are "obvious to see". Again. And then you can't get it why others make fun of you.

[Sondrelk]

Indeed.

I don't think many players dislike alternative advancement systems, inherently. They dislike their place in the metastructure of the game's cycle. There's a reason we retitled the concept as "borrowed power." Because that is precisely what it is. If they gave us something more generic that we could progress over the years, that could be iterated upon and improved, that wouldn't have to be redone every two years... Artifacts/Azerite/Covenants would be one of the most lauded features of the game.

Horizontal progression is something WoW hasn't attempted since AQ40, and that's a shame.

I guess you might be onto something. External power systems don't stay the same for long periods of time before we get a completely new iteration. Artifact weapons were too static, but instead of changing that aspect we got Azerite power that felt only tangentially similar. Not to mention layered systems within an expansion, like the almost complete disconnect between Azerite Armor and Azerite Essences, or even how th netherlight crucible in Legion felt more like an addon instead of a natural growth of Artifact conduits.
This is definitely not a problem that Tier sets didnt have, where even though they were the quintessential borrowed power, giving cool powers in the moment but screwing up the natural gear progression more often than not, they were still the same over time, meaning problems were smoothed out instead of removed.

Still though, I think borrowed power needs to be in the game in some way. Trinkets already work like borrowed powers in a sense, but I feel an expansion needs some kind of identity in gearing that makes gear not so much rote numbers on the screen, and instead tangible increases in power.

Personally though I recently came to the conclusion that I wonder if Blizzard paradoxically makes worse systems the more effort they put into them. Soulbinds for instance I wonder if would be even better if the class specific abilities were gone for instance. Though that could be an erroneous conclusion. It certainly does clash with my other theory that it would be better to have another talent row for level 60 and leave coevnant active abilities as overworld fluff abilities in lieu of balancing.

[Wangming]

Indeed.

I don't think many players dislike alternative advancement systems, inherently. They dislike their place in the metastructure of the game's cycle. There's a reason we retitled the concept as "borrowed power." Because that is precisely what it is. If they gave us something more generic that we could progress over the years, that could be iterated upon and improved, that wouldn't have to be redone every two years... Artifacts/Azerite/Covenants would be one of the most lauded features of the game.

Horizontal progression is something WoW hasn't attempted since AQ40, and that's a shame.

Absolutely I agree. Over on Taliesin's FFXIV stream he had a disagreement with the commenters on this. To him Relic weapons are just as much borrowed power as say Artifact Weapons or the Heart of Azeroth. Well I don't see my relics loosing power once I step into an expansion zone.

As you said less is more. Maybe if they didn't want to creat the next big feature and just put all their efforts into zones, dungeons, class balance and a proper story, we would have very different discussions now.

[draugril]

Absolutely I agree. Over on Taliesin's FFXIV stream he had a disagreement with the commenters on this. To him Relic weapons are just as much borrowed power as say Artifact Weapons or the Heart of Azeroth. Well I don't see my relics loosing power once I step into an expansion zone.

As you said less is more. Maybe if they didn't want to creat the next big feature and just put all their efforts into zones, dungeons, class balance and a proper story, we would have very different discussions now.

Add in that the process for obtaining relics is never trivialized and that we actually continued progress on the same artifact weapon in the next expansion, allowing us to skip several steps... there's continuity there. It has become much the same as any other itemization recently, but then you get into the discussion of whether or not itemization is "borrowed power," which is generally an asinine attempt of the masses to trivialize concerns people have with borrowed power by painting the concept with too broad a stroke.

But yeah, that's neither here nor there. They need to focus on what works. Iterate, do not reinvent. Their systems - from itemization to progression to questing to raiding - will never be perfect. The solution is never to scrap a system wholesale and start over entirely. And it certainly isn't design a system with planned obsolescence in mind. I'd rather see a little effort be made to improve an imperfect system every expansion than see all the efforts spent redesigning half their game for the same purpose. They change everything to change nothing, in the big picture. Thus, long term players are burning out since the formula hasn't changed for the better part of a decade. All their resources are spent recreating the same experience we had last expansion rather than giving us anything truly new to enjoy.

[Revamp Man]

So what? It's getting tiring to here this again and again. Yes, I said there is no 8.3 because the whole expansion was a storytelling mess. I was wrong, I acknowledge it. So what?

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I don't say 2022 because of WoD. I say 2022 because

a) it lines up perfectly with ending Shadowlands on 9.2,
b) it being the financially better solution,
c) 9.1 being more like a .2 patch and wrapping up lose ends while acting as an interlude to the finale and
d) WoD as a precedent especially during an (ongoing) pandemic that delayed everything.

By the way, when you say you're guessing 2023 because of patch lenghts you even (partially) agree on a).

1. I mention it because you use the same crap for now as you did then.

2. You say you aren’t using WoD but you are using it as a precedent which it can’t be due to the fact that it’s situation as far as we know was completely different

3. Yes if the patch cycle doesn’t have 9.3 then there is the cycle of: 7 months, 7 months, 10 months.

4. 9.1 storywise is like 8.1

5. Financially a patch still generates revenue as I’ve said time and time again it’s not 9.3 OR 10.0 it’s 9.3 AND 10.0 VS 10.0.

[Dracullus]

I wondered if it's Activision-Blizzard or Blizzard confirmed for summer games fest. But I checked event page and yeah - there are two separate logos for Activision and Blizzard.

Imo it will be something like last year gamescom, so few minutes for Blizz on opening stream - for 9.1 (short trailer with mixed scenes for all 9.1 cinematics + date) or Diablo II. Or both.

[Revamp Man]

I wondered if it's Activision-Blizzard or Blizzard confirmed for summer games fest. But I checked event page and yeah - there are two separate logos for Activision and Blizzard.

Imo it will be something like last year gamescom, so few minutes for Blizz on opening stream - for 9.1 (short trailer with mixed scenes for all 9.1 cinematics + date) or Diablo II. Or both.

Don’t forget OW2

[Dracullus]

Don’t forget OW2

They likely will have few minutes, so I narrow it to things that could come in near future. It won't be stream for Blizzard fanbase, it would be embarassing if "news" will be Overwatch preorder and release window. Honestly only release day it's something worth to show to broader audience.

And yes I know Diablo Immortal fits there. I exluded it from obvious reasons.

[Sondrelk]

I wondered if it's Activision-Blizzard or Blizzard confirmed for summer games fest. But I checked event page and yeah - there are two separate logos for Activision and Blizzard.

Imo it will be something like last year gamescom, so few minutes for Blizz on opening stream - for 9.1 (short trailer with mixed scenes for all 9.1 cinematics + date) or Diablo II. Or both.

Activision and Blizzard are just owned by the same joint parent company, they don't actually have any real link between them beyond having the same CEO.
If a panel lists Activision then Blizzard showing up would be absurd, same with the reverse.

If Blizzard is listed as showing up then unless they cancel then they are showing. No clue what they could showcase though unless they ahve mentioned somethign specific.

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And it seems I am as sleep deprived as I feel, seeing as I completely missed the gist of what you were saying.

But I would imagine a Shaowlands patch teaser at least. Nothing substantial, but maybe a logo and a trailer at best.

[Revamp Man]

They likely will have few minutes, so I narrow it to things that could come in near future. It won't be stream for Blizzard fanbase, it would be embarassing if "news" will be Overwatch preorder and release window. Honestly only release day it's something worth to show to broader audience.

And yes I know Diablo Immortal fits there. I exluded it from obvious reasons.

Anything blizzard fits really

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I wondered if it's Activision-Blizzard or Blizzard confirmed for summer games fest. But I checked event page and yeah - there are two separate logos for Activision and Blizzard.

Imo it will be something like last year gamescom, so few minutes for Blizz on opening stream - for 9.1 (short trailer with mixed scenes for all 9.1 cinematics + date) or Diablo II. Or both.

Separate logos seems like maybe whatever Cod they are pushing out will show there maybe? And obviously Blizz will show more SL stuff, maybe Overwatch, Diablo 4. The regular.

[Nyel]

4. 9.1 storywise is like 8.1

4. Absolutely not. Not even in the slightest. 9.1 is like 8.2, from a story perspective (acting as an interlude to the finale of the expansion) and even from a gameplay perspective (bringing in a new zone and mega dungeon). 9.1 and 8.1 have nothing in common.

I don't want to discuss the other things again and again and again, it's just making this thread worse overall. Let's wait for news and see what happens. But 4. is so obvious that even you can't tell me otherwise. Bellular, Taliesin and most other WoW content creators agree on this fact.

[Revamp Man]

1. I did not.

2. Yeah, the COVID situation now is way worse and would legitimate it even more.

3. Yes.

4. Absolutely not. Not even in the slightest. 9.1 is like 8.2.

5. A patch doesn't generate revenue. A patch is at best keeping subs, an expansion brings expansions sales AND new subs.

Subs are revenue
Also token sales for players who wanna buy the new gear

As for the argument of no 8.3...ya did

We don’t know the nature of why WoD development was cut short therefore comparing it to now makes no sense other than the fact we were told 7.0 was already in development at the time of 6.0 launch meaning that we can assume the same here so 10.0 has been in development and has suffered delays as well so stuffing the SL team into 10.0 development doesn’t solve anything. It makes more sense to allow the developers to capitalize on the delays and use them to allow more work on 10.0 without cutting the content that keeps players subbed.

8.1 wrapped up the opening conflicts of BfA
The horde recruited zandalar and the alliance needed to destroy their fleet and that’s what happened
9.1 wraps up the banshee queen and the 9.0 storylines in the same fashion.

The fact you agree about 7 7 10 means you acknowledge the fact that no 9.3 places 10.0 in the holiday season again which is something they stated they didn’t wanna do so they have 2 choices
1 shorten 9.2 by a month which would be near impossible with all the delays studios are still experiencing
Or
2 launch 10.0 after the new year which means more sub losses and no sales in the holidays

By adding the extra 7 months with 9.3 it places 10.0 around the release of most recent expansions and doesn’t cut any content short while also capitalizing on the lost 10.0 development Time by adding the 7 months

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Wednesday should be the 2 week announcement

[Lady Atia]

I wondered if it's Activision-Blizzard or Blizzard confirmed for summer games fest. But I checked event page and yeah - there are two separate logos for Activision and Blizzard.

Imo it will be something like last year gamescom, so few minutes for Blizz on opening stream - for 9.1 (short trailer with mixed scenes for all 9.1 cinematics + date) or Diablo II. Or both.

We will also (probably) get two new promotional mounts via prime gaming, so I would expect something from WoW. Probably patch release date, maybe even a little preview of 9.2?

[Nyel]

We will also (probably) get two new promotional mounts via prime gaming, so I would expect something from WoW. Probably patch release date, maybe even a little preview of 9.2?

Yeah, I pretty much expect them to announce the release date for 9.1. Not sure if they're announcing 9.2 just yet, it would mean they're spoilering the ending and aftermath of 9.1.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah, I pretty much expect them to announce the release date for 9.1. Not sure if they're announcing 9.2 just yet, it would mean they're spoilering the ending and aftermath of 9.1.

Not really - we already know that we won't fight Anduin/Jailer directly during the Sylvanas encounter. And they already told us the Jailer would be the last Boss of Shadowlands. Soooo it's already implied we will lose at the end of SoD. They just don't have to spoil the fate of Sylvanas. Or they could do it similiar to the MoP trailer that released before Dragonsoul and just say "and now we are bringing the fight to the Sanctum of Domination - but are we truly prepared for the full might of the Jailer?" followed by something unrelated. Of course this would work better if we are getting 9.3 with 9.2 being some side story - maybe Drust.

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That said, I'm actually a bit worried that Blizzard hasn't announced anything for that event yet. A little bluepost teasing and revealing the promotional mounts would make sense, no?

[Dracullus]

That said, I'm actually a bit worried that Blizzard hasn't announced anything for that event yet. A little bluepost teasing and revealing the promotional mounts would make sense, no?

Don't remember any post before Gamescom last year. Remember that Blizzard will get just few minutes, that's why I only hope for reveal for DII and/or 9.1 release date.

Even 9.1 isn't something that general audience care about, but this time patch is super late, so I guess Blizz could use this event to reach people that don't follow WoW news.

[Lady Atia]

Don't remember any post before Gamescom last year. Remember that Blizzard will get just few minutes, that's why I only hope for reveal for DII and/or 9.1 release date.

Even 9.1 isn't something that general audience care about, but this time patch is super late, so I guess Blizz could use this event to reach people that don't follow WoW news.

Are we sure they aren't doing a panel down the line to focus on their stuff? Would be weird to only have them appear during the opening ceremony.

[Dracullus]

Are we sure they aren't doing a panel down the line to focus on their stuff? Would be weird to only have them appear during the opening ceremony.

There is no info, it's all speculations, we only know Blizz is official partner. And it wouldn't be weird cause we already had same thing last year on gamescom online.