Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

"The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness." Turalyon is coming...get ready. Anduin practically confirms this from the Epilogue today.

Can always be Calia.

[Fahrad Wagner]

Eh, I would be more convinced Turalyon is the next bad if we weren't moving away from a faction war.

If he is then I think its going to be more like a Onyxia scenario where he's flirting with the enemy behind the scenes most of the expansion.

I don't think they'll make him a big bad just yet, but definitely it's going to change the dynamic within the Alliance...

[Catastrophy349]

Eh, I would be more convinced Turalyon is the next bad if we weren't moving away from a faction war.

If he is then I think its going to be more like a Onyxia scenario where he's flirting with the enemy behind the scenes most of the expansion.

Nope. He is bad. Naughty. He will usher in the darkness.

[Marlamin]

What was @PhillyCheese banned for?

In most cases where bans aren't tracable to a specific post, they're usually ban evading.

[draugril]

Eh, I would be more convinced Turalyon is the next bad if we weren't moving away from a faction war.

If he is then I think its going to be more like a Onyxia scenario where he's flirting with the enemy behind the scenes most of the expansion.

Eh, we wouldn't need a faction war. We could be going full SoO and have the Alliance raid their own leader like the Horde was forced to do.

[Sondrelk]

Eh, I would be more convinced Turalyon is the next bad if we weren't moving away from a faction war.

If he is then I think its going to be more like a Onyxia scenario where he's flirting with the enemy behind the scenes most of the expansion.

Faction war doesnt necessarily preclude evil subfactions though, even if the explanation is a bit janky.
Just have Tyralyon ally with the Scarlet Crusade remnants because of Lothraxion, and suddenly we have the ability to have a pseudo-evil Alliance to defeat. Possibly even in a Stormwind raid if we are lucky.

[Le Conceptuel]

Eh, we wouldn't need a faction war. We could be going full SoO and have the Alliance raid their own leader like the Horde was forced to do.

I rather don't like that idea. I'd like to see Turalyon stick around as a strong leader.

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Are those two really that powerful as nations, though?

Zandalar is an island and their reach seems to be mostly around there. Kind of how an island nation on Earth can depict themselves as a kingdom or an empire, but everyone else are like 'aaw'.

Suramar feels like a city-state at best, with no one to trade with and nowhere to expand to. No doubt a powerful city full of sorcerers capable of inflicting great damage to anybody who would threaten them. But it's kind of a remnant of a failed civilization.

Suramar is as much a remnant of a failed civilization as the Byzantine Empire was. They may not have the scale they used to, but they have all the wealth, military power, and seemingly a fairly thriving population for a city-state that just came out of a serious war. Their power is definitely enough to put them back in the spotlight.

As for Zandalar, they also have absolute authority over every other Troll empire, which means that anyone still left in Stranglethorn or Zul'Aman are completely submissive to them. This definitely means that the combined Troll race is all on the same faction—even if their empires have failed individually, they're still going pretty strong by default just given how prolific Trolls are.

[Makabreska]

The Horde also has massively changed. Unlike the Alliance were most of the Allied Races are very minor players, the Horde got two superpowers with extremely advanced civilizations in the form of Zandalar and Nightborne. It would just feel very weird to make them feel like struggling survivors at this point (and it does requires that the story of some of the races move forward; perhaps with the Darkspear getting a proper home and the Tauren actually being depicted as much more successful).

Zandaalar ceased to be a superpower ages ago. They have been in a steady decline for so long, and Cataclysm wrecked their homeland. Majority of their fleet was also destroyed in 8.1. Kul Tirans are superior naval force to them. Suramar has sick magic, but just came back from a civil war that fucked lots of their forces.

[Khaza-R]

Eh, we wouldn't need a faction war. We could be going full SoO and have the Alliance raid their own leader like the Horde was forced to do.

Yeah but that requires build up to get that point. It doesn't just go zero to sixty we need to kill our new faction leader unless he actually ends up doing some terrible things.

I guess his victims could be the Alliance themselves but that seems unlikely. I also don't see the entire Alliance turning on him if he decides to purge Lordaeron of all the Forsaken.

[Catastrophy349]

Turalyon could also be made a pawn, or simply, be the reason why the darkness seeps in. The quote, "The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness," does not "technically" say whether the golden one is the darkness or will be the reason for it occurring. Perhaps Turalyon isn't bad BUT his position of power causes something evil to happen as a result. For example, Turalyon being on the throne instead of Genn, Anduin, or someone else, may have ramifications for some unknown reason we just don't know yet.

[Le Conceptuel]

Yeah but that requires build up to get that point. It doesn't just go zero to sixty we need to kill our new faction leader unless he actually ends up doing some terrible things.

I guess his victims could be the Alliance themselves but that seems unlikely. I also don't see the entire Alliance turning on him if he decides to purge Lordaeron of all the Forsaken.

I maintain Turalyon will just be a quasi-benevolent military dictator who gives the Alliance a pair.

[draugril]

Faction war doesnt necessarily preclude evil subfactions though, even if the explanation is a bit janky.
Just have Tyralyon ally with the Scarlet Crusade remnants because of Lothraxion, and suddenly we have the ability to have a pseudo-evil Alliance to defeat. Possibly even in a Stormwind raid if we are lucky.

I was hopeful that WoD was going to culminate with an inversion of the first WarCraft - with the (alternate) Alliance invading Draenor to put the Iron Horde (and any other warmongers present) down before we could bring the conflict to alternate Azeroth. There are so many ways that the Alliance could be positioned as the antagonist - I wish they'd take the opportunity to do so. The current stable of writers, however, seems to have prescribed to a surface level understanding of the lore: that the Horde are the villains and the Alliance are the heroes. So I won't hold my breath.

[Le Conceptuel]

Turalyon could also be made a pawn, or simply, be the reason why the darkness seeps in.

You mean Alleria "I totally have control over the Cosmic Horror guys!" Windrunner might actually be a threat to the Alliance because she's a walking portal to the Void who nearly caused an outright invasion the moment she came close to the Sunwell, which she still seems intent on reclaiming?

[Makabreska]

As for Zandalar, they also have absolute authority over every other Troll empire, which means that anyone still left in Stranglethorn or Zul'Aman are completely submissive to them. This definitely means that the combined Troll race is all on the same faction—even if their empires have failed individually, they're still going pretty strong by default just given how prolific Trolls are.

Wut? Where this supreme control comes from? Vol'jin instantly turned his back on them in Cata Rise of the Zandalari.

[GabrielKnight]

turalyon could also be made a pawn, or simply, be the reason why the darkness seeps in. The quote, "the golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness," does not "technically" say whether the golden one is the darkness or will be the reason for it occurring. Perhaps turalyon isn't bad but his position of power causes something evil to happen as a result. For example, turalyon being on the throne instead of genn, anduin, or someone else, may have ramifications for some unknown reason we just don't know yet.

omg it was the jailor all along!11 again!!!!!!1

[Skytotem]

Are those two really that powerful as nations, though?

Zandalar is an island and their reach seems to be mostly around there. Kind of how an island nation on Earth can depict themselves as a kingdom or an empire, but everyone else are like 'aaw'.

Suramar feels like a city-state at best, with no one to trade with and nowhere to expand to. No doubt a powerful city full of sorcerers capable of inflicting great damage to anybody who would threaten them. But it's kind of a remnant of a failed civilization.

I mean britain was an island and projected power all over the world at the height of its empire. Japan is also a major power despite being an island.

Magical/Technological and industrial/economic development can still make them VERY influential and powerful.

[Le Conceptuel]

Wut? Where this supreme control comes from? Vol'jin instantly turned his back on them in Cata Rise of the Zandalari.

See: Zuldazar, filled with the remnants of the Amani, Gurubashi and every other given Empire or Tribe present. Vol'Jin was an outlier who had a different superpower behind him. Unless, for whatever reason, the Alliance tries to back a Troll tribe, I highly doubt any of them will try to secede from Zuldazar's oversight.

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I mean britain was an island and projected power all over the world at the height of its empire. Japan is also a major power despite being an island.

Magical/Technological and industrial/economic development can still make them VERY influential and powerful.

That's precisely what I'm thinking in regards to Suramar, at least. I think Zandalar is more powerful because of its connections to the other Troll tribes and general influence—economic and technological development are more the forte of Suramar, though, for sure. I definitely think they're an emergent power.

[Nymrohd]

Turalyon could also be made a pawn, or simply, be the reason why the darkness seeps in. The quote, "The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness," does not "technically" say whether the golden one is the darkness or will be the reason for it occurring. Perhaps Turalyon isn't bad BUT his position of power causes something evil to happen as a result. For example, Turalyon being on the throne instead of Genn, Anduin, or someone else, may have ramifications for some unknown reason we just don't know yet.

I mean in a potential Yrel storyline we could have Turalyon and indeed most of the Alliance agree with her early on and then slowly but surely start questioning her and then joining the Horde against her by the mid point of the expansion. Turalyon could still be the one who opens the way for her.

[Kiivar86]

Can always be Calia.

Or Pelagos. I mean they're literally golden now and their crown is pretty light.

"The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all", is it alluding to the fabled 7th force, maybe?

I always took that to be referring to Z'rali in Revendreth making a bargain with the Venthyr (as the force of Death itself could be seen as an "enemy of all" at the time due to the Jailer's machinations).

(See also how the whispers of the Void reacted to Sylvanas in that comic)

[Makabreska]

See: Zuldazar, filled with the remnants of the Amani, Gurubashi and every other given Empire or Tribe present. Vol'Jin was an outlier who had a different superpower behind him. Unless, for whatever reason, the Alliance tries to back a Troll tribe, I highly doubt any of them will try to secede from Zuldazar's oversight.

I did not do Zandalar questing, but how for example Amani react to teaming up with Blood Elves? Really weird to have all these hostile tribes being ok with the Horde now.