Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Zulggun]

I don't like idea of Turalyon being corrupted one way or another, I like the guy. But what I fear the most is if Blizzard attempts to get into faction war again.

[Wangming]

Oh that definitely, what I'm saying is I hope they remember all of that and not rewrite he as just the life counterpart of WQueen

Get me into Blizzard and i will make sure you get what you want. I'm a cisgender, heterosexual white male, so I should be okay.

[draugril]

To be honest only thing too far was WQueen referencing her as sister, but even that doesn't mean her actual sister. She probably meant that in the way that both of them are strongly tied to nature.

Her allowing nelf souls to pass through the afterlife and not stopping the burning is at least well explained that she would help her sister in a time of need (drought) by bringing more souls, but not even she knew that all souls are going to the maw.

Personally, a lot of the draw that Elune had was because she was seemingly disconnected from the cosmology that we knew of. Essentially, the Tom Bombadil of WarCraft.

[Shadochi]

Personally, a lot of the draw that Elune had was because she was seemingly disconnected from the cosmology that we knew of. Essentially, the Tom Bombadil of WarCraft.

Was she disconnected? I would more say unaligned. But even that is a far stretch with her helping Titans in Legion.

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Also, blizzard keeps improving the cutscenes. The cutscenes we get now are IMO better done than the first cinematics (non CGI) we got

[Lahis]

In SL we find out she can choose if Nelf souls go to the shadowlands or not.

No she doesn't. She just thought that letting Teldrassil happen would help Ardenweald since most of the dying Nelves would end up in there.

[Kiivar86]

Also, blizzard keeps improving the cutscenes. The cutscenes we get now are IMO better done than the first cinematics (non CGI) we got

Yeah, I thought the same too. In BfA this sort of cutscene would've been like the one where Sylvanas takes Baine captive, with no real lip synching and using default animations.

They've upgraded, its good. Still a bit jank in a few places but good overall.

[draugril]

No she doesn't. She just thought that letting Teldrassil happen would help Ardenweald since most of the dying Nelves would end up in there.

Did we collectively forget that wisps are a thing? Including Blizzard themselves?

[Lady Atia]

Was she disconnected? I would more say unaligned. But even that is a far stretch with her helping Titans in Legion.

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Also, blizzard keeps improving the cutscenes. The cutscenes we get now are IMO better done than the first cinematics (non CGI) we got

This! Both the Pelagos and Sylvanas cutscenes aswell as that weird acid dream with the orcale were top notch and I hope that's the standard of them going forward. Lets hope they find a way to really incorperate player characters in these as well!

[SunspotAnims]

Also, blizzard keeps improving the cutscenes. The cutscenes we get now are IMO better done than the first cinematics (non CGI) we got

The fully animated in-engine cutscenes are so cool. I'm hoping the handful we've gotten in Shadowlands are a prelude to going all-out with them in 10.0, especially if they figure out a way to give player models the same animation treatment.

In a perfect world, we'd be seeing these types of cutscenes used to more frequently tell stories in a cinematic way while requiring a portion of the dev resources as the pre-rendered game cinematics.

[Lahis]

Lets hope they find a way to really incorperate player characters in these as well!

They can't do that. Every time they have had a good looking and well animated NPC in Shadowlands cutscenes, it has been a custom model with handcrafted animations made only for the cutscene.

The fact that there are 17 unique races models for two genders means player character can never do anything besides hacked together emote aninations in cutscenes.

[Shadochi]

This! Bothhe Pelagos and Sylvanas cutscenes aswell as that weird acid dream with the orcale were top notch and I hope that's the standard of them going forward. Lets hope they find a way to really incorperate player characters in these as well!

Oh this has been one of my favorite new reddit trends, when the PC is incorporated to have the most out of place tmog.

But I assume you mean the facial expression that are improved.

This would probably require them to update player rigs. But not to the level of NPCs as we will never have players voice acted in cutscenes.

I feel like what they are doing with cutscenes is getting better, telling a story where otherwise it would be the player just standing in place while two NPCs in front of the player walk and talk (like in the boring quests where we have to hear X's plans for something)

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The fully animated in-engine cutscenes are so cool. I'm hoping the handful we've gotten in Shadowlands are a prelude to going all-out with them in 10.0, especially if they figure out a way to give player models the same animation treatment.

In a perfect world, we'd be seeing these types of cutscenes used to more frequently tell stories in a cinematic way while requiring a portion of the dev resources as the pre-rendered game cinematics.

Exactly, these cutscenes definitely have a place where to play them for better storytelling

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They can't do that. Every time they have had a good looking and well animated NPC in Shadowlands cutscenes, it has been a custom model with handcrafted animations made only for the cutscene.

The fact that there are 17 unique races models for two genders means player character can never do anything besides hacked together emote aninations in cutscenes.

I assume just adding better facial expressions and animations to the PC would be enough. Not custom animations for each new cinematic like Sylvi and Tyrande got for faces and hands

[Wangming]

Personally, a lot of the draw that Elune had was because she was seemingly disconnected from the cosmology that we knew of. Essentially, the Tom Bombadil of WarCraft.

Or rather his way too hot wife.

[Lahis]

I assume just adding better facial expressions and animations to the PC would be enough. Not custom animations for each new cinematic like Sylvi and Tyrande got for faces and hands

That is still 34 new faces to animate for each cutscene instead of the 2 or 3 they do now.

[Wangming]

They can't do that. Every time they have had a good looking and well animated NPC in Shadowlands cutscenes, it has been a custom model with handcrafted animations made only for the cutscene.

The fact that there are 17 unique races models for two genders means player character can never do anything besides hacked together emote aninations in cutscenes.

Are you sure it isn't possible? FFXIV has two kinds of cutscenes. The first type is basically an ingame event where everyone is just doing actual emotes. Handing over stuff just looks super silly. But the second type uses totally custom animations, even for the player characters. So, yeah. It should be possible

[Khaza-R]

Eternity's End OST now up on Spotify.

https://open.spotify.com/album/33js6...QU6PueCcr04qFA

Say what you will about the Shadowlands. The music has been great at least. Chains of Domination was excellent imo.

[SunspotAnims]

They can't do that. Every time they have had a good looking and well animated NPC in Shadowlands cutscenes, it has been a custom model with handcrafted animations made only for the cutscene.

The fact that there are 17 unique races models for two genders means player character can never do anything besides hacked together emote aninations in cutscenes.

It's not quite as simple as that. Yes there would be a too many models to animate if we assume every player model needed to be independently animated, but I don't think it has worked that way since MoP. I believe it was with monks initially where a system was made to transfer animations between similar rigs, so monk animations needed to be made once and then they were applied to every other race, including races that couldn't be monks. It was the same system that facilitated the reworked combat/casting animations in Legion and BfA.

For sure there are still hurdles that'd need to be figured out. For one, the animation transfer probably isn't seamless and would need some slight manual tweaking in certain cases. I'm also assuming the system wouldn't work with facial animations and those would probably be better served by a procedural face animation system for each race (and I'm kinda shocked WoW doesn't seem to have one yet). Similarly, they'd need to design some sort of smart camera that can adjust to the height and proportions of the character model.

Overall though I don't see it as being outside the realm of possibility.

[Lahis]

Are you sure it isn't possible? FFXIV has two kinds of cutscenes. The first type is basically an ingame event where everyone is just doing actual emotes. Handing over stuff just looks super silly. But the second type uses totally custom animations, even for the player characters. So, yeah. It should be possible

FF14 has only 8 races, one of which is still monogendered.

WoW has 17 unique* races with two genders each. That is 34 different models to animate for each cutscene.

*Most, but not all, ARs have identical rig to a parent race, thus not unique in animation department.

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It's not quite as simple as that. Yes there would be a too many models to animate if we assume every player model needed to be independently animated, but I don't think it has worked that way since MoP. I believe it was with monks initially where a system was made to transfer animations between similar rigs, so monk animations needed to be made once and then they were applied to every other race, including races that couldn't be monks. It was the same system that facilitated the reworked combat/casting animations in Legion and BfA.

For sure there are still hurdles that'd need to be figured out; I'm assuming the system wouldn't work with facial animations and those would probably be better served by a procedural face animation system for each race (and I'm kinda shocked WoW doesn't seem to have one yet). Similarly, they'd need to design some sort of smart camera that can adjust to the height and proportions of the character model.

Overall though I don't see it as being outside the realm of possibility.

Slapping same combat animation on Gnome and Tauren just about works. Slapping same "interact with environment and/or character" on Gnome and Tauren will never work.

[Wangming]

FF14 has only 8 races, one of which is still monogendered.

WoW has 17 unique* races with two genders each. That is 34 different models to animate for each cutscene.

Not if they don't use racial animations. In proper cutscenes you are put in situations that are flat out impossible with emotes. Like when you are captured by the guards in 2.55. There is no emote for "Lying on your side with your hands bound behind your back".

[huth]

FF14 has only 8 races, one of which is still monogendered.

WoW has 17 unique* races with two genders each. That is 34 different models to animate for each cutscene.

*Most, but not all, ARs have identical rig to a parent race, thus not unique in animation department.

FF14 races are also nowhere near as diverse modelwise. Most of them are just humans with bits and pieces added on.

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Not if they don't use racial animations. In proper cutscenes you are put in situations that are flat out impossible with emotes. Like when you are captured by the guards in 2.55. There is no emote for "Lying on your side with your hands bound behind your back".

That's not helping things. WoW would need somewhere around 30 different animations for that. FF14 needs less than 10.

[SunspotAnims]

Slapping same combat animation on Gnome and Tauren just about works. Slapping same "interact with environment and/or character" on Gnome and Tauren will never work.

I wouldn't say "never". I'm not denying that there'd be inherit limitations due to the disparity in character sizes and proportions, but animators work around dumb limitations all the time. If an animator can't reasonably make a universal animation for the player character picking up something from a table, because the each race might have a drastically different proportion to the table, then they just won't animate that and figure out a different way to convey the same idea.

There are still plenty of applicable situations where one universal animation plus procedural face animations can cover just about all gaps in animating for every race.