Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Nymrohd]

Because it's almost the same as DH, I don't get why most people don't see it. On paper Belf/Nelfs could be Demon Hunters, in practice it wasn't same as your regular Belf/Nelf with all that horns, blindfolds and tatoos. Funny enough, Dragon race also look a bit like Belf in humanoid form.

Even when we talk about specs, I doubt it was "let's think what Dragon class could do", but more "ok, DH had melee/tank, so we are gonna do range/heal this time".

Oh the range/heal probably has less to do with DH and more to do with the fact that not only have they not added ranged specs, they actually removed one over the last 18 years. And since they probably want every new class to be hybrid (so they have something to fall back to if their dps sucks and can still do content) they felt adding a healer is a better choice (since healers just get more chances at representation than tanks do, both in raids and pvp)

[Wangming]

@Wangming

MMO stories are always graded on a curve. I like a lot of WoW, but as a cohesive, continuing story it's a laughing stock that's only gotten worse about it as every expansion adds more and more parts that collapse stuff that came before. I liked SWTOR, but exclusively the base game, as Eternal Empire essentially reset the setting. Final Fantasy managing to cohere for its entire timespan with the biblical amount of text that it's in it is a selling point all on its own storywise.

Yeah that's how I feel. I know I can't speak for anyone but myself, but maintaining a story for that long is great. And when you have that much story weight for everything, simple eating out with friends gets more meaningful. It would be nice if there were more consequences for our actions though cause people come back to life so often I tend to just roll my eyes when a certain catgirl bites the dust. Still Endwalker game me a sense of satisfaction and closure that neither the last season of Game of Thrones, nor Deathly Hallows and definitely not Rise of Skywlaker brought.

I'll say this. I am a Main Tank and have been a Main Tank since Wrath (was a healer before). Most tank players are more tied to the role than to the class. While I am not switching from Paladin I will still play tank on alt nights with any of the other classes and I know many tanks who have one of each or at least have a couple of alts with a decently geared tank spec.
I think many tanks would absolutely give any new class with a tank spec a chance. The tanking playstyle is so specific and involved that it ends up being more important than your class. At the end of the day it is far easier for a tank who knows the encounters to switch to a different class and perform at a good level than it is for a dps because tank specs tend to not be as complex (because we have to deal with encounter mechanics at a deeper level particularly in M+).
On the other hand, I doubt a new class would get new people to roll tanks.

Yes I get that. Tanking is a scary pond to dip into. In FFXIV I played every job so far and I always play tanks last and least. Tankxiety is real. But it just wasn't their turn this time. I mean think about it. DK had a tanking spec. Monk had a tanking spec. Demon Hunter had a tanking spec. Guardian split from feral to be a dedicated tanking spec. Not getting another tank was one of the things I think they did right.

It is like the iconic Machiavelli line: "It is better to be feared than loved." The actual full line is: " If I can't have both, it is better to be feared than loved". So if we can't have ranged DPS, tanking AND healing, tanking is the best one to drop. And it does seem like they don't want that many specs.

[Nymrohd]

Yes I get that. Tanking is a scary pond to dip into. In FFXIV I played every job so far and I always play tanks last and least. Tankxiety is real. But it just wasn't their turn this time. I mean think about it. DK had a tanking spec. Monk had a tanking spec. Demon Hunter had a tanking spec. Guardian split from feral to be a dedicated tanking spec. Not getting another tank was one of the things I think they did right.

It is like the iconic Machiavelli line: "It is better to be feared than loved." The actual full line is: " If I can't have both, it is better to be feared than loved". So if we can't have ranged DPS, tanking AND healing, tanking is the best one to drop. And it does seem like they don't want that many specs.

Oh I get it. They wanted two specs, they definitely wanted ranged dps and the second one was best either tank or healer. Healing is actually more iconic for dragons (though mostly for reds . . .) and given they don't get a bulkier dragon form, tanking doesn't make much sense.

[Le Conceptuel]

I honestly never even understood the intentions of the Infinite. I think it would be interesting seeing them SUCCEED at changing events at point A so we could then see if they would also intervene at the new Point B of doom created and then keep intervening (which would be the deontological approach). But the way they are presented as nefarious makes you wonder if they are changing the events at point A to help the world or if they are doing it to help themselves (or due to loyalty to Murozond).

I've always found their intentions to be more implicit than explicit—I think the thing about the Infinites is that they never outwardly state their goals, but everything they do suggests some kind of benevolent intention. Perhaps this isn't on the part of Murozond, but it certainly is on the part of most of them. Firstly, I think that the set of dungeons in which we face them are good evidence of their misguided good intentions—the Culling of Stratholme, the Escape from Durnholde, and the opening of the Dark Portal at the Black Morass are all great examples of events which had terrible results ... in the short-term. The Culling of Stratholme killed many innocents and created Arthas as we know him. The Escape from Durnholde, although technically heroic, did lead to many horrible wars down the line. The opening of the Dark Portal brought the Orcs to the world and started the First War. I think these all suggest that the Infinites may be doing this out of a sincere effort to make the world a better place.

What they do not realize is that time is not always as straightforward as it seems, and sometimes the butterfly effect changes things. If the Culling of Stratholme were stopped, we'd surely not see Arthas—but Archimonde could well find another summoner, and the world may be doomed to be brought low by the Legion later down the line without the Lich King to foil their plans. Similarly, without Arthas, Illidan would've never found the Skull of Gul'Dan, nor would it have been brought to Ashenvale by the Legion in the first place. Consequently, the long-term results would be horrible. If the Escape from Durnholde were stopped, of course Thrall would never be freed and the world would remain dominated by the Alliance, but what of Blackmoore's evil plans? Without Thrall, Blackmoore well could've taken over much of Lordaeron—we see that very event occur in one alternate timeline in the books! Without the Dark Portal opening, the Legion could've found another way in, or Deathwing could've destroyed the world later down the line for the Old Gods, or any number of unforeseeable events. Every action has consequences, and this is what the Infinites wouldn't understand. Their morality strikes me as very deontological—they're not as wise as the Bronze Dragonflight, who are keen enough to realize that the timeline must be preserved, because oftentimes the consequences of destabilization are worse. This is the characterization I have taken from their actions and why I'm so interested in them.

That, and their aesthetic is cool.

[Matticus777]

Leave the current Drac'thyr model as it is

Add a bulkier options

Add Draconid allied race for base classes

Add Tuskarr allied race for base classes

Sit back and enjoy the praise from the fans

[Le Conceptuel]

With how much they were ragging on about this being a 'return to high fantasy', while I agree with you entirely about Infinite Dragons they'd want to start with something as basic as possible after where Shadowlands ended up. I'm one of the people who actually really enjoyed a lot of what Shadowlands was playing with conceptually, even if it was an unfinished mess in execution, so I can't say Explosion of Dragons is remotely my cup of tea, but 'Dragons there, go there to see dragons' is something everyone can understand.

Wholly reasonable as an objection. It certainly wouldn't sell to go straight to something akin to the most maligned expansion save for Shadowlands and possibly BfA in the common mindset right after the disaster of the last expansion. It does seem like it would be impractical to do another time travel plot.

[Wangming]

Leave the current Drac'thyr model as it is

Add a bulkier options

Add Draconid allied race for base classes

Add Tuskarr allied race for base classes

Sit back and enjoy the praise from the fans

Kinda. Of course, everything would be better than the turd we got.

[Zaganite]

These models look wat cooler then drakthyr tho lol.

But they don't? I really like the Drakthyr model and it ticks the boxes for how I'd imagine a dragon playable race. Customization looks good and I'm looking forward to giving feedback based on Alpha/Beta instead of a few second clips we got.

Not everything has to be bulky

[Chickat]

Well, for Druids that's actually not much of a change. The attunement row does just that. But it's a bit more gradual with the new system.

Sure, but you can make it even more in depth, and it adds that level of hybridness to all classes.

[Wangming]

Wholly reasonable as an objection. It certainly wouldn't sell to go straight to something akin to the most maligned expansion save for Shadowlands and possibly BfA in the common mindset right after the disaster of the last expansion. It does seem like it would be impractical to do another time travel plot.

Well, MoP started with: "Anduin is missing so go see if there is anything on this part of the map". And it ended up being great. 6.1 for Endwalker after the wrapup of the last story ac in 6.0 began with "Go someplace you haven't been to, it will be fun". So starting with: "Hey, adventurer! This is Lexi. I'm going back to the Dragon Isles. Wanna come over and see the place?" Might not be the most interesting story hook, but it does its job. And what comes after is the real question.

[Chickat]

Probably not EK/Kalimdor, but if it comes close to Northrend in scale then it's a win in my books.

Id say its probably their biggest continent not counting Draenor, Northrend of Outland. So bigger than Broken Isles, Kultiras, Zandalar, Pandaria.

If I remember correctly Northrend is 17k square pixels
Draenor without Tanaan was 14k
Outland was 15k
Pandaria and Broken Isles were both about 9-10k

Only 4 zones, I'm gonna guess something like 12k pixels. So all of Broken Isles plus the Demon hunter starting zone tacked on. Pretty big for 4 zones. Unless they are counting the Drakthyr zone, in which case its still probably about as much playable space as Broken Isles not counting the Drakthyr zone.

[Nymrohd]

That, and their aesthetic is cool.

I always thought the point of the Infinite's intervention was to stop an event that would somehow lead to their leader dying. Or possibly stop an event that would lead to their own creation. Murozond's purpose is to stop his own death. He somehow survives the End Time itself after all. It could even be something more relatable; maybe he is trying to keep Soridormi alive. So every event we are stopping could down the line enable his death. Heck maybe it is Salandria who is fated to kill him and if the First War and the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas did not happen, she'd never be orphaned and thus never become a blood knight who ends up killing Nozdormu.

[Wangming]

Id say its probably their biggest continent not counting Draenor, Northrend of Outland. So bigger than Broken Isles, Kultiras, Zandalar, Pandaria.

If I remember correctly Northrend is 17k square pixels
Draenor without Tanaan was 14k
Outland was 15k
Pandaria and Broken Isles were both about 9-10k

Only 4 zones, I'm gonna guess something like 12k pixels. So all of Broken Isles plus the Demon hunter starting zone tacked on. Pretty big for 4 zones. Unless they are counting the Drakthyr zone, in which case its still probably about as much playable space as Broken Isles not counting the Drakthyr zone.

Well they did say that the zones will be fucking massive to accommodate dragon riding.

[Chickat]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say their weapons are more than likely just going to be stat sticks like Druids.

All weapons are stat sticks in modern WoW.

[Nymrohd]

Id say its probably their biggest continent not counting Draenor, Northrend of Outland. So bigger than Broken Isles, Kultiras, Zandalar, Pandaria.

If I remember correctly Northrend is 17k square pixels
Draenor without Tanaan was 14k
Outland was 15k
Pandaria and Broken Isles were both about 9-10k

Only 4 zones, I'm gonna guess something like 12k pixels. So all of Broken Isles plus the Demon hunter starting zone tacked on. Pretty big for 4 zones. Unless they are counting the Drakthyr zone, in which case its still probably about as much playable space as Broken Isles not counting the Drakthyr zone.

They did directly say that Dragonriding was needed so as to deal with how huge the islands are. And let's not discount how larger than their surface area vertical zones can end up being, especially with plenty of overhangs and caves.

[Chickat]

But those dragons have been stuck on that island for 10 000 years. How would they have learned our current classes abilities?
Lorewise it doesn't make sense for them to be other classes than Evoker. Not in 10.0 at least.

I mean they had rogues, warriors, hunters, and mages for sure even back then.

[Nymrohd]

Btw is Dragon Riding the borrowed power of Dragonflight? Did they ever clearly say if we can take our dragon out of the Isles?

[Sondrelk]

I always thought the point of the Infinite's intervention was to stop an event that would somehow lead to their leader dying. Or possibly stop an event that would lead to their own creation. Murozond's purpose is to stop his own death. He somehow survives the End Time itself after all. It could even be something more relatable; maybe he is trying to keep Soridormi alive. So every event we are stopping could down the line enable his death. Heck maybe it is Salandria who is fated to kill him and if the First War and the Scourge invasion of Quel'thalas did not happen, she'd never be orphaned and thus never become a blood knight who ends up killing Nozdormu.

Wasn't it explained somewhere that if the Infinite Dragonflight managed to change the timeline then it would just kinda collapse in on itself?

I feel like that was an explanation somewhere. The Infinite Dragonflight tries to change pivotal moments of Wzeroths history, which just so happens to usually mean bad things like the Orc invasion, or the Culling of Stratholme.

[Nymrohd]

I mean they had rogues, warriors, hunters, and mages for sure even back then.

Greens have been druids since day one as well. They pretty much created druidism.

[ImTheMizAwesome]

But they don't? I really like the Drakthyr model and it ticks the boxes for how I'd imagine a dragon playable race. Customization looks good and I'm looking forward to giving feedback based on Alpha/Beta instead of a few second clips we got.

Not everything has to be bulky

Not everything has to be bulky, but everything should have an option, don't you agree? Since they don't have female/male dragon options at least add 1 different body type.
Out of dragon form they reuse human and BE model anyway.

It's a video game afterall, especially after they were being so hyped about "you can be anything you like!" at the roundtable.