Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Raetary]

If a planet houses a world soul...is there is any chance it houses 2 world souls? like twins?

What if Azeroth isn't corrupted but divided in 2...if Sargeras sword is a mourneblade...it can divide Azeroth...

Titan planets aren't impregnated, the planet forms as a protective layer over the world soul.

And why would the sword be a mournblade?

[Ilir]

They announced to remove borrowed power. And forget to mention they also remove hundreds of hours of gameplay in matchmade or solo content they had implmeneted in 3 expacs before.

Just imagine: There is nothing that replaces the gameplay of Islands, Warfronts and Torghast in Dragonflight. Torghast actually was not that bad, it could have worked if it dropped real gear.

Probably that is just another double edged sword we know the devs for for years.

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Imagine you only had world quests as gameplay in WoW. Would you continue to play it?

Just another stunt to reduce development effort. And close to noone even realizes it during the hype. Exactly that is the reason i ask people to always check for downsides in anything people like Hazzikostas announce. They sell you a deevolution as a new feature.

But it's not only world quests.

he said there will be loads of stuff to unlock via reputation (renown), exploration and rewards for dragonriding.

He said he will based the end game "casual content" like Zereth Mortis and zones will have stuff to unlock/discover etc.

If it's only WQ, then I agree with you but it doesn't seem that way from what they said.

[boyzma]

Mythic+ and Raiding exists. It's never been easier than it is now to start doing it.

He's just complaining to complain. Blizzard could give everyone and their dog exactly everything they want and he would still find something to bitch about.

[Alanar]

Who wants to bet they designed unique hairstyles for the Venthyr because they intended to reuse them for Darkfallen?



The Venthyr women even use a few blood elf hairstyles so they must have compatible phrenology.

How did you come to this conclusion? they are not that similar tbh.

[Varodoc]

Yeah, it makes sense in so many ways that's hard to imagine something else.

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I can see her taking a form of an elf, but surely not of a void one since titans are Order beings, not Void ones. But I think it's unlikely because an elf form would trigger some people while something based on Greek/Norse mythology, which also happens to be the general rule for titans/watchers/stone ppl, wouldn't.

Btw, does anybody knows if Argus was based on Egyptian mythology?

They are beings of Order, but they can also be twisted by other forces.

Sargeras the Order Titan was twisted by the Fel, and his form reflects that, with flaming hair, beard, eyes, demonic horns, and charred torso:




The Old Gods have been drawing their strength from Azeroth's earth for countless ages. In BfA, the Old God N'Zoth began merging Ny'alotha with the very Chamber of the Heart of Azeroth. The whisper from Il'gynoth clearly and explicitly confirms that the Old Gods have been drawing their strength from the "earth", obviously referring to Azeroth. It's safe to say that this would have left a mark on the Titan, hence the "Void" part.

We cannot expect this to simply be ignored. The Old Gods are specifically designed to be parasites, and they have been leeching onto Azeroth's earth for many ages. Yes, I expect her to be physically changed in some form by the Void. Like Alleria and her kin.

[rhorle]

We cannot expect this to simply be ignored. The Old Gods are specifically designed to be parasites, and they have been leeching onto Azeroth's earth for many ages. Yes, I expect her to be physically changed in some form by the Void. Like Alleria and her kin.

You also can't ignore how the Old Gods would have corrupted a Titan if what you say is true. Which is what we've learned is a supremely bad thing to have happen.

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A lot of specs could, BM comes to mind as well. But then again it was never tuned so that's like expecting a raid to be balanced at release state. Not really a fault of the system though, more the lack of effort into balancing it.

I think it is reflective of the system. Because solo challenges require individual tuning because of how varied the kit of each class is. When you don't tune individually you get things like Visions and Torghast that allow some classes or specs to have an easier time compared to others. Even the Mage Tower challenges that is more built around individual specs has a varying degree of challenge based on the class.

[Nightshade711]

Why are people trying to debate with someone who's answer for everything is Void Elf lmao

Little did you know there is a third secret void elf spec for the Evokers because of the corruption of the black dragonflight and clearly alleria will teach them how to control it hince the blood (void) elf form

[Therougetitan]

Something I noted in the Holinka interview is them mixing up the green and red flight. They mention how "Ysera" is the one who healed people in Wrathgate when it was Alexstraza and the red flight. It is a shame that the red flight isn't the healing one as it is in lore. If I had to guess it is because of the similar reason why Mistweavers were originally Chi-ji themed but they didn't like red spell effects for healers so they made it jade serpent.

Linked time for reference:
https://youtu.be/6p7_6zBe7Lk?t=300

[Edoll]

How did you come to this conclusion? they are not that similar tbh.

It’s Ersula. They’re a very high level troll. They’re always posting random things that aren’t true in order to start a conversation and never backs up any of their blatantly wrong assumptions.

[Ersula]

Was Argus shown without his helm on?

That's not a helm. That's Argus' head. The Titans don't wear clothes. The fact that when you remove it half his head is just GONE tells you that.

How did you come to this conclusion? they are not that similar tbh.

What conclusion? This was just an observation. Venthyr use a few blood elf hairstyles.

It’s Ersula. They’re a very high level troll. They’re always posting random things that aren’t true in order to start a conversation and never backs up any of their blatantly wrong assumptions.

Your mother.

Why are people trying to debate with someone who's answer for everything is Void Elf lmao

Then Argus would have also looked like an Elemental & he didn't.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Then Argus would have also looked like an Elemental & he didn't.

You know that has nothing to do with what I am saying.

[rhorle]

That's not a helm. That's Argus' head. The Titans don't wear clothes. The fact that when you remove it half his head is just GONE tells you that.

Blizzard not giving a model a part that will never be seen is not proof that titans don't wear clothing. It is clear that Titans can choose how they manifest since they have variations. You have no evidence to suggest that Titans can not wear clothing or that the two that wear helms have no top half of their skull. Argus looks a lot like Aggramar who also was corrupted by the Legion and would have been present during his "hatching" and corruption. We also have art of pre-corruption Sargeras so we do know that they can at least change when getting corrupted.

This is still very far away from "It looks like a dreanei because of ears and horns which were not present. So far that has been no link between the state of the planets creatures and what a Titan looks like.

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Then Argus would have also looked like an Elemental & he didn't.

Why would Argus have to be an elemental just because Azeroth could look like an elemental because of lore? We don't know enough about Argus, the planet, to know what non corrupted form he would have manifested as. Besides we do know that he didn't manifest as some weird demon creature but similar to Aggramar. So either way it still means that a Void Elf is no where near possible.

[Chickat]

It was described as a different wing so it will probably be separate although they could rework the old one anyways

They actually said in an interview that it's both. Said the new staff room is super cool looking. The one where you put the thing to fight the titan keeper.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Titan planets aren't impregnated, the planet forms as a protective layer over the world soul.

And why would the sword be a mournblade?

Dreadlords? They apparently did everything ever so it wouldn't be much of a stretch. I think Blizzard even abandoned most of the Gorshalach lore and made Taeshalach and Goribaal their own things, and since I doubt it looked like that while Sargeras was still part of the Pantheon I could easily see the Dreadlords influence him to carve a couple runes on it. Heck they could have done so while he got crushed in the portal. Certainly not the biggest stretch in recent lore. Not saying I like it though...

[Ersula]

For example? What will casual gamers have to do outside of world quests? Farm dragon food?

Ok. So where is the new Torghast? Where are the new Islands? And where are the new Warfronts?

Crafting as solo play is the idea. They create a crafting model that can create the strongest gear in the game & emulate FFXIV's crafting system, which while it doesn't seem like it, is actually really fun. Some people just craft in FFXIV & that's what Dragonflight is trying to emulate.

[Lorca]

When could we expect the 9.2.5 patch to be released?

[Ersula]

The crafting in WoW never was really anything beside farming and getting mats from the open world, dungeons or raids .So the solution to replace Torghast, Warfronts and Islands is mats farming?

I was pessimistic about it too. But when the people doing high keys & mythic raiding would just not do this content, or be forced to do it & complain, you might as well just remove it. Islands & Warfronts had the most casual retention because of the transmogs, so to go with that they announced a plethora of crafting related transmog items.

Where are details about how crafting is being implemented as like in FFXIV as you talk about, how is the acquisition of mats being changed it could replace Torghast, Islands or Warfronts, and how should it replace instanced solo queue gameplay?

I mean it's not instanced but gathering always has been the quintessential solo activity in wow. But coincidently they also added solo queue ranked pvp.

[Drcidoc]

I would simply give a shit about what a few mythic+ and raid players complain about and give normal players useful progression systems. In the end it is the everyday player that pays wows development, and not the few premade group players.

Beside that i do not think that farming and crafting 100 versions of "Green leggings of the gnome hunter" will add any fun to WoWs gameplay or could replace instanced solo queue content like Torghast successfully.

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Yep, and thats the problem. In the end, the developers replace instanced Torghast with bosses and interesting game mechanics with .. farming.

Really, Blizzard?

I get belly aches from reading your comments, the game was just ANNOUNCED, it’s a whole year until release. You’re talking like the game will be out tomorrow man, calm the hell down.

[Ersula]

I would simply give a shit about what a few mythic+ and raid players complain about and give normal players useful progression systems. In the end it is the everyday player that pays wows development, and not the few premade group players.

Beside that i do not think that farming and crafting 100 versions of "Green leggings of the gnome hunter" will add any fun to WoWs gameplay or could replace instanced solo queue content like Torghast successfully.

You seem to be missing the "Crafting will be able to make the strongest gear in the game" part of Dragonflight crafting.

Farm the mats, make the gear; That's a progression system. It's been far less gratifying all these years because it's always had a hard cap on it so they're getting rid of that cap.

And if you absolutely need your solo play to be in the form of a dungeon, they want to convince you to group up. Dungeons are supposed to be social & this is their idea to encourage more community without alienating people who feel like playing alone. Push the people who want to do dungeons to be more social & push the people who want to play solo to try more crafting.

Literally everyone was complaining about Torghast. If you actually felt it was rewarding gameplay you should have been more vocal about it about a year ago.

[Nymrohd]

I often advocate for challenging solo content that offers its own progression route.

Visions did have some very solid rewards but for very limited slots (I think you only got gear for the 5-non azerite armor slots, no cloaks, jewelry, trinkets weapons). And that's OK because some specs had a far harder time than others.

Torghast was supposed to be that as well. If you look at the original presentation during Blizzcon, Torghast was supposed to unlock loot at the Vault, presumable at different ilvls (with the Vault back then also having the Coin functionality were you would be able to spend coins to target specific boss lootables for Vault slots). What Torghast could solve however was that it had myriads of levers to balance the solo capabilities of different specs. Is a spec crap at solo? Give it overpowered Anima powers to make up for the weakness it has. After all what makes specific specs weak is not that they don't have throughput, it's lack of defensives, CC and/or mobility as well as slower dps build up, all of which could be solved with Anima powers.

The other solution is not to offer instanced content specific for solo but to reward world content. Up until MoP that was the standard. Between reps and Valor you could get multiple gear pieces at normal raid level. And keep in mind with Mythic not existing that meant you were just a single tier of ilvl below the dedicated raiders. This made the gear feel powerful. The trade off was a much slower rate of gaining gear than any raider would get but you would get there eventually (and that kept you subbed so you could get Valor cap every week). Pair this off with the most alt friendly expac ever (Double Valor and Rep gain on alts) for one of the best casual progression systems.

I think the next xpac that was very friendly to casuals in gear progression was BfA. Emissaries, HC Warfronts and War Mode giving Conquest meant that half way though the tier you would be at heroic ilvl, something not possible in Legion (were TF was the only way for casuals to get great gear) or SL. SL does let you get decent gear, half way over Normal. Very easy to do in 9.2, extremely grindy but possible (and for all slots) for 9.1

Another issue for casual players is dungeons. Back when we had Valor and M+ did not exist, running a few LFG dungeons a week was part of your gameplay. Now heroics are completely worthless, with gear far weaker than catchup, world quest or crafted gear. Casuals barely run them in Legion and BfA and only run them a bit in early SL to unlock anima powers.

On what I'd like to see; honestly I think we need every version of world content to be rewarding.
By every version I include War Mode. I should be able to get Conquest up to a cap in War Mode and be rewarded for it else War Mode has very little value. BfA imo did it perfectly. You had to do a decent amount of War Mode content to cap. If you did, you would slowly get gear up to a very solid level. You could again tie it to the Vault. There was a variety of War Mode content to do and patches added more. The rewards were good enough that people actually did world pvp throughout the xpac with the zone assaults and Naz'jatar PvP both being very rewarding. Only thing the system needs is a better way to balance representation.

Casual world content should be able to slowly reward good gear. This could be with a completely random system like Emissaries granting good gear again with a limited ability to choose like we had with Legion and moreso with BfA. Or it could be with a reward track (could be Valor, could be something else) that unlocks gear slots at the Vault.

Dungeons should feel more accessible. Realistically they ARE accessible for everyone but tanks. People will not really look that much into anything but ilvl for low level keys and you can then use those to level up (well not on Alliance side since there aren't enough keys but soon!). Still making base Mythic available via Matchmaking and letting it open Vault slots (LFR does . . .) would help (and make Dungeon week very popular).

And ofc you could have challenging solo content.
First option is instanced. Imo if that was to happen, it should be with an evergreen system so Blizzard doesn't feel like they have to reinvent it every xpac. That doesn't mean it has to be thematically constrained. You'd just tie it to a specific system so the UI can stay the same while using different content in each xpac (and if possibly add at patches). Imo this could be linked to a new organization that sends people to explore the world, under the Archeology system, through the Bronze Flight. Whatever the system is it should have ways to tune it for individual specs to make up for weaknesses to soloing.
The other alternative would be to make it an opt-in world mode. Just like you can opt in for War Mode, make a Heroic? Mode for world content. You choose it, you unlock a spec-specific passive that tunes up some abilities to make you a bit better for solo (and then you can aggressively choose solo-effective talents in the new tree). And then the entire world becomes much more challenging, every pull requiring some effort, consumables and/or help from other players pretty much required to kill rares. Add environmental effects that make AFKing outside a town madness. Perhaps even no flight allowed (or limited flight like Dragonriding). But everything you do while in Heroic mode fills up the reward track for the week and at the end you can get Heroic ilvl loot from the Vault.

As for why I keep mentioning the Vault, it's because if they use the Vault for EVERYTHING instead of adding multiple reward systems then people who just log in to raid/do M+/rated pvp will be able to completely ignore the casual/solo activities. If you do instanced content you'd already get higher ilvl loot in your vault so any of these options would just be a downgrade. Thus you'd minimize the issue of needing to do content you don't like to be competitive.