Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Izalla]

MoP release date: Sept 25
Mogu'shan Normal date: October 2

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-raid-schedule

Incredible. No idea how I managed to be ready for that.

[Nymrohd]

Incredible. No idea how I managed to be ready for that.

I remember Mogu'shan vault being very easy (Emerald Nightmare easy). I guess neither of us was particularly ready

[Lady Atia]

Incredible. No idea how I managed to be ready for that.

Well to be fair, Mogu'shan Vault was a small entry raid without tier items - HoF and Terasse came later. Compare it with Castle Nathria which was basically a normal big (and hard) tier right from the start.

[Grimbold21]

PTR build has a new little stable model for that updated area in SW next to the mage district and stockade

As someone who's fresh into their 3D journey, it always intrigues me how much detail is actually just texture work, instead of actual individually modelled pieces

[Nymrohd]

Well to be fair, Mogu'shan Vault was a small entry raid without tier items - HoF and Terasse came later. Compare it with Castle Nathria which was basically a normal big tier right from the start.

Yeah I think Mogu'shan Vault, Emerald Nightmare and I suppose Highmaul were all designed to be entry raid tiers. None of them really had their own mogs and I guess they were all easier than average.

[Lady Atia]

Yeah I think Mogu'shan Vault, Emerald Nightmare and I suppose Highmaul were all designed to be entry raid tiers. None of them really had their own mogs and I guess they were all easier than average.

Honestly I wish they would tune back the difficulty a bit more from the start. The current trend of overtune everything for world first guilds and dumbing it down afterwards feels super bad. I rather take a somewhat easier, but more fun and better tuned tier than what we have right now. Sanctum was fine besides the painsmith wall though. And I guess Sepulcher right now after the Halondrus changes is tuned quite well, but still, it took us far too long to get here.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly I wish they would tune back the difficulty a bit more from the start. The current trend of overtune everything for world first guilds and dumbing it down afterwards feels super bad. I rather take a somewhat easier, but more fun and better tuned tier than what we have right now. Sanctum was fine besides the painsmith wall though. And I guess Sepulcher right now after the Halondrus changes is tuned quite well, but still, it took us far too long to get here.

It's a challenge to be sure. The skill levels in the raiding community vary wildly and the difficulties that exist cannot hope to match that. But really the issue is often that the skill level within the group varies wildly as well.

[Lady Atia]

It's a challenge to be sure. The skill levels in the raiding community vary wildly and the difficulties that exist cannot hope to match that. But really the issue is often that the skill level within the group varies wildly as well.

Yeah but that's like the oldest "issue" with wow raiding. You will never ever have everyone being on the same skill level and honestly, isn't that what makes raiding interesting? That you have to work together with 19 other people? It isn't you alone that kills a boss, it's your guild.

What the current version of "overtuning > nerfing harsh" does it makes you feel like you wasted your time earlier on. Instead of progressing naturally via gear upgrades you hit a wall 'till they decide to nerf it. So here's the question? Why do we need the "super hard version of mythic" at the start if they nerf it anyways down the line? It feels like an arms race against the few world first guilds tbh. But I think if they would tune Mythic from the start to make it more accessible for the "normal mythic" guilds, well it would be far healthier for the game in the long turn. And the recent race to world first showed that no one wants a slodgy 3+ weeks tier anyways (besides that it's promoting super unhealthy behavier similiar to the removed server first achievements).

[Nymrohd]

Yeah but that's like the oldest "issue" with wow raiding. You will never ever have everyone being on the same skill level and honestly, isn't that what makes raiding interesting? That you have to work together with 19 other people? It isn't you alone that kills a boss, it's your guild.

What the current version of "overtuning > nerfing harsh" does it makes you feel like you wasted your time earlier on. Instead of progressing naturally via gear upgrades you hit a wall 'till they decide to nerf it. So here's the question? Why do we need the "super hard version of mythic" at the start if they nerf it anyways down the line? It feels like an arms race against the few world first guilds tbh. But I think if they would tune Mythic from the start to make it more accessible for the "normal mythic" guilds, well it would be far healthier for the game in the long turn. And the recent race to world first showed that no one wants a slodgy 3+ weeks tier anyways (besides that it's promoting super unhealthy behavier similiar to the removed server first achievements).

Eh I don't think that's what is making raiding interesting if anything it is making it frustrating. Every raiding guild I've seen fall apart fell apart because of that issue at least to some extent.

[Lady Atia]

Eh I don't think that's what is making raiding interesting if anything it is making it frustrating. Every raiding guild I've seen fall apart fell apart because of that issue at least to some extent.

Yeah because quite often you have some elitist people who think they are better than anyone else, without realizing that it's a group effort. And the better your world ranking, the more of these people you will potentially have.

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Oh and also, the main issue my last guild had was that it was impossible to recruit new people without turning the game into a full time job. Making mythic more accessible would help with that problem quite well imo.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah because quite often you have some elitist people who think they are better than anyone else, without realizing that it's a group effort. And the better your world ranking, the more of these people you will potentially have.

Or you know, they get tired of progression not depending on people learning the encounter but rather depending on which attempt won't have the mechanics targeting the wrong people so they don't wipe.

[Lady Atia]

Or you know, they get tired of progression not depending on people learning the encounter but rather depending on which attempt won't have the mechanics targeting the wrong people so they don't wipe.

Haha well, I never have that problem. In my guild everyone fails from time to time. To quote Ion, if the boss has to target the right people, frankly that's a skill issue?^^

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Also, from my experience it's not the mechanics that are the problem, but overtuned numbers.

[Nyel]

Players come up with ideas like this: https://www.wowhead.com/news/fan-mad...26723#comments

And Blizzard gives us something as boring, uninspired and ugly as a Dracthyr Evoker. I have no idea why the community of this game seems so much more engaged and talented in creating new and interesting stuff compared to the devs. It's sad.

[Nymrohd]

Haha well, I never have that problem. In my guild everyone fails from time to time. To quote Ion, if the boss has to target the right people, frankly that's a skill issue?^^

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Also, from my experience it's not the mechanics that are the problem, but overtuned numbers.

See, if everyone fails from time to time than that means your guild is mostly on the same skill level. Which is great. I've had raid groups with people who should be doing Mythic or at least have Heroic on farm in the first month and people who could barely do normal. I've LED raid groups like this. And it just sucks for everyone involved. It probably has to do with being on Alliance side and on an RP server so having a shallow pool.

[Lady Atia]

Players come up with ideas like this: https://www.wowhead.com/news/fan-mad...26723#comments

And Blizzard gives us something as boring, uninspired and ugly as a Dracthyr Evoker. I have no idea why the community of this game seems so much more engaged and talented in creating new and interesting stuff compared to the devs. It's sad.

I love the dracthyr, they are super cute. You don't have to like everything, that's ok.

But yeah, the glyph concepts are quite good.

[Nymrohd]

Players come up with ideas like this: https://www.wowhead.com/news/fan-mad...26723#comments

And Blizzard gives us something as boring, uninspired and ugly as a Dracthyr Evoker. I have no idea why the community of this game seems so much more engaged and talented in creating new and interesting stuff compared to the devs. It's sad.

Eh, most of those are models already made by Blizzard. The few that are just reskinned WoW models almost all look back (the fossil elemental looks cool, I'll give them that).

Still, we do need Class customization. Much of what this player suggests is fucking hard and expensive; Blizzard would never just reskin sfx from frost into beer piss (which is not at all as easy as turning a slider in photoshop like that person did, thus their effect looking poor); they'd rebuild things from scratch to make them look good. The only things that might work are simply making more existing models available.

[Lady Atia]

See, if everyone fails from time to time than that means your guild is mostly on the same skill level. Which is great. I've had raid groups with people who should be doing Mythic or at least have Heroic on farm in the first month and people who could barely do normal. I've LED raid groups like this. And it just sucks for everyone involved. It probably has to do with being on Alliance side and on an RP server so having a shallow pool.

Yeah, let's hope that crossfaction raiding will help with that. They still need to either change hall of fame to be community based, or do crossfaction guilds with 10.0 to make it work for mythic though.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah, let's hope that crossfaction raiding will help with that. They still need to either change hall of fame to be community based, or do crossfaction guilds with 10.0 to make it work for mythic though.

Honestly I fear it will just make the problem worse.
Sure you will find raids easier, but without cross-faction guilds I fear it will just lead to more Alliance players leaving.

[Lady Atia]

Honestly I fear it will just make the problem worse.
Sure you will find raids easier, but without cross-faction guilds I fear it will just lead to more Alliance players leaving.

Yeah, hence they should start to work on their spaghetti code asap.

[Nymrohd]

Honestly I fear it will just make the problem worse.
Sure you will find raids easier, but without cross-faction guilds I fear it will just lead to more Alliance players leaving.

I'd say they should just abandon the guild concept and just find a way to migrate guild benefits into communities. They are the better designed social feature. I think far too much about guilds is hardcoded so making them cross faction will be hard, not to even consider things like letting people join multiple guilds.