1. #58881
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    People thinking that Alpha is some kind of early access demo is exactly why we don't need Alpha.

    Majority of people don't use the alpha to bugtest, but rather to play the game early without paying for it, just to then shit about how boring it is because they've already done everything on the alpha.

    People are burned out on the game before the game is even out. Have test weekends where people can log in, do a dungeon or two to test talent builds. Have test weekends where you can test dragonflying.

    You don't need an alpha or beta to test quest chains.
    Then why have they changed the quest flow of entire zones after beta testing?

  2. #58882
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    People thinking that Alpha is some kind of early access demo is exactly why we don't need Alpha.

    Majority of people don't use the alpha to bugtest, but rather to play the game early without paying for it, just to then shit about how boring it is because they've already done everything on the alpha.
    I mean you have any proof to back it up?

    I've seen group of people on various discords dedicated to testing specific stuff, people on secrets discords testing and checking for secrets and in the same time reporting bugs with art and other stuff.

    People from various streamers discords(Towelliee for example) testing for stuff, didn't shadowlands alpha had the most involvement when it comes to bug testing during alpha with small amount of people 5-10k?

    People that were in alpha got emails from blizzard sharing the statistics about that.

    Last edited by ImTheMizAwesome; 2022-06-22 at 08:21 AM.

  3. #58883
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    People thinking that Alpha is some kind of early access demo is exactly why we don't need Alpha.

    Majority of people don't use the alpha to bugtest, but rather to play the game early without paying for it, just to then shit about how boring it is because they've already done everything on the alpha.

    People are burned out on the game before the game is even out. Have test weekends where people can log in, do a dungeon or two to test talent builds. Have test weekends where you can test dragonflying.

    You don't need an alpha or beta to test quest chains.
    Oh ye, I member when Asmon got BfA Alpha, and first thing he did was trying to climb highest mountain in Drustvar. But TBH, that is kinda expected when you give streamers access.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  4. #58884
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Then why have they changed the quest flow of entire zones after beta testing?
    What zone are you talking about?

  5. #58885
    Speculations are dangerous and only lead to people arguing about content that may not or ever even exist, all we can do is wait and see and the argue/debate that and hope Blizzard pay attention.

  6. #58886
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    What zone are you talking about?
    From betas I remember, Hellfire, Jade, Gorgrond (and I think Talador as well?)

  7. #58887
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    From betas I remember, Hellfire, Jade, Gorgrond (and I think Talador as well?)
    I don't know how Hellfire and Gorgrond had their quest flow changed exactly (Unless you refer to the OLD-OLD Gorgrond which got changed WAAAAY before there was any public testing), and while you are totally right about Jade Forest, it was probably the worst designed zone Blizzard has ever done.

  8. #58888
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I don't know how Hellfire and Gorgrond had their quest flow changed exactly (Unless you refer to the OLD-OLD Gorgrond which got changed WAAAAY before there was any public testing), and while you are totally right about Jade Forest, it was probably the worst designed zone Blizzard has ever done.
    Hellfire was weird, it was really late in the beta and they removed several questlines and replaced them (I can barely remember the old ones but I do remember having no trouble with them).

    Anyway I'm sorry but the suggestion that the alpha and beta are pointless is just . . .
    I have been in every beta except the original and Cata. I know my feedback has been useful; got quests changed, mob abilities that caused evade bugs removed, fixed terrain bugs that could drop you off the world.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-06-22 at 08:40 AM.

  9. #58889
    The people pre-ordering this already are one of the main problems why the game is the way it is.

  10. #58890
    Pre ordered the Epic Edition and got all my goodies, Dragonflight is gonna be awesome!

  11. #58891
    Elemental Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    The people pre-ordering this already are one of the main problems why the game is the way it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiriastrasza View Post
    Pre ordered the Epic Edition and got all my goodies, Dragonflight is gonna be awesome!
    This sums up last 24H pretty well.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  12. #58892
    Quote Originally Posted by Santandame View Post
    The people pre-ordering this already are one of the main problems why the game is the way it is.
    It's always frustrating when you don't like something but there are other people who do.

  13. #58893
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    It's always frustrating when you don't like something but there are other people who do.
    Snide comment aside, they aren't wrong. Although its hardly just a Blizzard problem but something pervasive throughout the industry. Giving developers money through pre-ordering doesn't exactly incentivize them to make a smooth and polished game at launch.

  14. #58894
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Pre-ordering is completely pointless and insane these days. There is no supply or shipping problems to be worried about. You can buy the game the minute it launches and be playing it as soon as the clowns who bought it 6 months ago.

  15. #58895
    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Snide comment aside, they aren't wrong. Although its hardly just a Blizzard problem but something pervasive throughout the industry. Giving developers money through pre-ordering doesn't exactly incentivize them to make a smooth and polished game at launch.
    This logic doesn't really hold up when games were riddled with bugs and lacked polish long before preorders became a common thing. Preorders being less popular in 2008 didn't stop Wrath from being absolutely riddled with bugs, or cutting/scaling back a bunch of planned features. Just like it didn't stop Fallout 3 from being unstable crashy garbage compared to 4 or 76.

    Because, vaporware indie scams aside, devs generally don't go "oh we've reached x million units, cease all testing and development". Games that are unpolished and full of bugs would have been unpolished and full of bugs regardless of preorders being open or not. Devs generally want a game to be good and well received, and executives, despite what extremely vocal people might think, also want a game to be good and well received, because preorders are always a minority total sales, and there's no point in banking on preorders to carry your game.

    Giving devs money through preorders does incentivize them to make a smooth and polished game at launch, because it gives them they are on the right track and it's okay to keep working on the things and getting them more towards a nice end product. When you tank sales (or interest), the dev is left up in the air, and feels like they shouldn't keep investing in polish and smoothing (because what is the point if people don't like the base thing?) so they start trying to hedge their bets by backing off of development of the things they've been doing (leaving them without polish) and trying to come up with some new option that also does not get full dev time, because it was started in desperation halfway+ through development.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Pre-ordering is completely pointless and insane these days. There is no supply or shipping problems to be worried about. You can buy the game the minute it launches and be playing it as soon as the clowns who bought it 6 months ago.
    Pre-ordering is entirely sensible for anything that you know you are going to be buying. I have been playing the game since 2005, and have played every expansion at launch. I know that I am going to play Dragonflight at launch, so why wait until release, having to deal with it before I log on, and potentially running into issues with busy web servers or payment processing servers, or whatever other shit when I can just buy the thing I'm gonna buy anyway at some point in the next few months?
    Last edited by Hitei; 2022-06-22 at 10:22 AM.

  16. #58896
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    When in doubt, go for nation bashing!
    Most funny is that I didn't even bought it yet and there is big chance that mr responsible consumer will buy it before me, people who must scream about it clearly are fighting with their addiction.

    I just think box price has GREAT value considering how many hours of entertain it provides, especially compared to typical AAA premiere. And for sure I hate when some loser try to spoil fun for truly passionate people.

  17. #58897
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Most funny is that I didn't even bought it yet and there is big chance that mr responsible consumer will buy it before me, people who must scream about it clearly are fighting with their addiction.

    I just think box price has GREAT value considering how many hours of entertain it provides, especially compared to typical AAA premiere. And for sure I hate when some loser try to spoil fun for truly passionate people.
    Damn bro, you don't have to show how much i hurt you with my words for some reason, going for "loser" insults and such.

    Im still waiting for some facts from you about alpha testing(because you quoted me first for some reason) and how it doesn't matter, because all what you've been doing now is playing some sort of the "passionate" victim card, when you don't have arguments.


    Another thing, comparing value of DF box to "typical AAA premiere" is really pointless, you don't get any value if you just buy the box without subscription, unless you will go for most expensive one, but if you go and buy this "typical AAA premiere" game, you get content right away, without sub.
    From MMO's GW2 for example, you buy the expansion you get value right away, the amount of hours of entertainment you will get, is not based on subscription that you're not able to play or enjoy content without.
    BOX literally gives you nothing just access to something you still have to pay for when it comes to WoW model.

    Overall using how many hours of entertainment game provides as a base for "GREAT" value is also weird, because it would seems like the ubisoft open world games are the best ever.

    You can get the same amount of value, entertaiment with the 10-20h game, just as example something like Spiderman on Playstation. ^^
    Last edited by ImTheMizAwesome; 2022-06-22 at 11:08 AM.

  18. #58898
    Quote Originally Posted by Hitei View Post
    This logic doesn't really hold up when games were riddled with bugs and lacked polish long before preorders became a common thing. Preorders being less popular in 2008 didn't stop Wrath from being absolutely riddled with bugs, or cutting/scaling back a bunch of planned features. Just like it didn't stop Fallout 3 from being unstable crashy garbage compared to 4 or 76.

    Because, vaporware indie scams aside, devs generally don't go "oh we've reached x million units, cease all testing and development". Games that are unpolished and full of bugs would have been unpolished and full of bugs regardless of preorders being open or not. Devs generally want a game to be good and well received, and executives, despite what extremely vocal people might think, also want a game to be good and well received, because preorders are always a minority total sales, and there's no point in banking on preorders to carry your game.

    Giving devs money through preorders does incentivize them to make a smooth and polished game at launch, because it gives them they are on the right track and it's okay to keep working on the things and getting them more towards a nice end product. When you tank sales (or interest), the dev is left up in the air, and feels like they shouldn't keep investing in polish and smoothing (because what is the point if people don't like the base thing?) so they start trying to hedge their bets by backing off of development of the things they've been doing (leaving them without polish) and trying to come up with some new option that also does not get full dev time, because it was started in desperation halfway+ through development.
    And yet we are dealing with the same company that just released the absolute travesty that was Reforged 3 years ago so the skepticism is entirely warranted compared to when WotLK was released. Pre-ordering can be okay when the developer has their own ethics that prevent them from releasing shoddy, unstable products. However in the case of Blizzard or even Bethseda, you cannot fault customers for not wanting to just hand them over money in good faith that they might actually deliver this time.

    And as far as the industry goes, I think you're seeing too much in terms of extremes. Its not pre-ordering means that a developer can totally scam you now that they have your money. The larger issue is that mediocrity and passibility becomes the norm for standards. Releasing something just good enough to keep consumers coming back for more. Pre-purchasing isn't the only issue here, because we saw this behavior from massive developers even more it was widespread, but it has contributed to the issue.

  19. #58899
    The Lightbringer Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Spotify TOS doesn't let me play it on radio. CDs I can use.

    All music transferring into Spotify and Amazon is fucking dreadful for this hobby.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Atleast MoP was still on CD.
    What the hell is a radio? Don't you have a phone? Or a pc? You can play music there, you know? CD's are an old medium and they are creating just more waste, spotify is far better ...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Pre-ordering is completely pointless and insane these days. There is no supply or shipping problems to be worried about. You can buy the game the minute it launches and be playing it as soon as the clowns who bought it 6 months ago.
    Wow, another great reply from you. In case you missed it, the pre-order has a limited time pet this time, and you also get the collectors edition items instantly if you pre-order. Both are reason enough to get it already. Besides that, I know I will play Dragonflight, 11.0, 12.0 and everything beyond, because I love the game. So there is literally no reason not to pre-order it. Oh, also, Dragonflight looks great already, as did the last 2 seasons of Shadowlands.

    #TEAMGIRAFFE

  20. #58900
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Spotify TOS doesn't let me play it on radio. CDs I can use.

    All music transferring into Spotify and Amazon is fucking dreadful for this hobby.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Atleast MoP was still on CD.
    I mean, no, you can't use CDs either. Public performances need express consent from the copyright holder.

    Just because you can doesn't mean you are allowed to. This thread is just baffling sometimes.
    Last edited by Makorus; 2022-06-22 at 11:04 AM.

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