Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[rhorle]

The more choices the better. Let people play however they want. If someone isn't good enough they can be let go from the group.

That doesn't work for a mass market game. Toxicity won't be dealt with as its own problem because it would be linked directly to the talent choices a person picks. If they have X, Y, Z that are known bad choices that don't produce viable performance for that spec then they won't be invited or kicked out of any group they do get it. If you don't see how balance contributes to toxicity in the game then you don't understand much about the design of the game.

Choice just for the sake of choice isn't better. Good choices is better but we know that bad choices will exist and then we fall back in to the illusion of choice. Something you may be fine with because you get "tricked" into thinking you have a real choice. But something that won't really be a choice for the performance-gated game that WoW is.

[therumblings]

Illusion of choice with 61 talent points gained every level > Illusion of choice with only 7 talent points gained every 15 levels

[Catastrophy349]

Everything I have seen for Dragonflight so far is a HUGE + for me. Obviously, many will disagree and that's fine. Fortunately, Alpha is next week (and weeks to come) so we should get a better idea of how it looks "in real time" very soon.

[Khaza-R]

Illusion of choice with 61 talent points gained every level > Illusion of choice with only 7 talent points gained every 15 levels

At the very least, it should improve the leveling experience.

The issue with leveling post-scaling is that effectively there were vast swathes where no progression happened.. You gained power but so did the mobs. You might get a few new abilities hitting a certain milestone but then get nothing else for 10 more levels. It ultimately made leveling just a pointless waste of time to fill up some arbitrary bar and that's terrible design.

The squish partially helped but there's still smaller increments where no progression is actually happening. At least with the new talents you will have actual progression every level. That and lets hope they are implementing this system with future expansions and leveling in mind.

[ZyntosAran]

That doesn't work for a mass market game. Toxicity won't be dealt with as its own problem because it would be linked directly to the talent choices a person picks. If they have X, Y, Z that are known bad choices that don't produce viable performance for that spec then they won't be invited or kicked out of any group they do get it. If you don't see how balance contributes to toxicity in the game then you don't understand much about the design of the game.

Choice just for the sake of choice isn't better. Good choices is better but we know that bad choices will exist and then we fall back in to the illusion of choice. Something you may be fine with because you get "tricked" into thinking you have a real choice. But something that won't really be a choice for the performance-gated game that WoW is.

I am mostly a Open World player. I cant wait to get my hands on the talent trees. fuck the meta, i just want to have fun with stupid builds.

[enigma77]

Illusion of choice with 61 talent points gained every level > Illusion of choice with only 7 talent points gained every 15 levels

So true, there is no real choice with the current talent "tree". You only ever change maybe 3 or 4 talents, if that.

[Catastrophy349]

I am mostly a Open World player. I cant wait to get my hands on the talent trees. fuck the meta, i just want to have fun with stupid builds.

I really want to know what that "separate team" is working on for outdoor content. HYPE

[Nymrohd]

So true, there is no real choice with the current talent "tree". You only ever change maybe 3 or 4 talents, if that.

I mean if you change 4 out of 7, that's a solid percentage.

[ZyntosAran]

I really want to know what that "separate team" is working on for outdoor content. HYPE

Me too. But if the outdoor content is anything like I hope it is (Zereth Mortis but times 10), the package we know of right now is a unreal dream for me. Talent trees back, deep Professions, Dragonriding. This exp could be huge for outdoor content enthusiasts.

[Xofoo]

While there will be "the best" talent builds for all classes and you will probably play that while doing regular content, what really excites me about the new talents is the ability to create builds for other activiteis. For exmaple building a movement speed build on my hunter for old raid farming. Or a build that beefs up my pet for soloing harder stuff. That is what I'm really looking forward to.

[Mekkle]

i just want evoker talents, but i wouldnt be suprised if that was last

[Nymrohd]

i just want evoker talents, but i wouldnt be suprised if that was last

I think it would make more sense for Evoker to be the first thing we get in Alpha. Like launch with JUST the evoker area.

[Grimmy17]

Let’s have a healthy conversation/speculation session:

Answer one or both of these questions:

1). What is something you “hope” we get or is better explained during the Alpha/Beta cycle of Dragonflight?

2). What are you “most” worried about for Dragonflight?

1. The lore behind the aspects empowerment - what potential do these 5 dragons actually have in terms of power? We never got to see them power up in Cata (Dumb Thrall) so I want to see the extent of what they can really do

2. The raids continue to devolve into some sort of stressful skill test where failing one mechanic means you wipe.
2.2. (Evoker being bad)

[Civciv]

I hope they make a Dracthyr/Evoker intro cinematic just like they did with Demon Hunters.

[Nyel]

It never even occurred to me that the Dracthyr starting zone could take place thousands of years ago, then end waking up at present day, similar to DH. That's a ton of story potential.

That most likely won't get used, lol. But it's a great idea and would be really cool.

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Illusion of choice with 61 talent points gained every level > Illusion of choice with only 7 talent points gained every 15 levels

The new trees are a better illusion nonetheless.

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i just want evoker talents, but i wouldnt be suprised if that was last

Yeah, based on how much we know about the class and how much we got told about them, it wouldn't surprise me if they come later in Alpha.

[rhorle]

I am mostly a Open World player. I cant wait to get my hands on the talent trees. fuck the meta, i just want to have fun with stupid builds.

Great for you. But that still ignores how the game isn't designed to allow "stupid builds" and will require a certain amount of performance (dps, heals, etc) to clear content. It sets up a trap for those who aren't aware and actively choosing to handicap their characters.

[Khaza-R]

I hope they make a Dracthyr/Evoker intro cinematic just like they did with Demon Hunters.

I would be pretty surprised if they didn't but I imagine cinematics are prime encryption candidates even if they aren't spoiler-y.

[Revamp Man]

Great for you. But that still ignores how the game isn't designed to allow "stupid builds" and will require a certain amount of performance (dps, heals, etc) to clear content. It sets up a trap for those who aren't aware and actively choosing to handicap their characters.

And they learn
Wanna make a crazy build that "handicaps" you just go to lfr

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i just want evoker talents, but i wouldnt be suprised if that was last

There will be a blog post for them

[rhorle]

And they learn

Right. The illusion of choice. LFR also shouldn't a place for people to use low dps, heals, or surviability specs. It already suffers from people slacking off as it is that it shouldn't be encouraged by game design.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Great for you. But that still ignores how the game isn't designed to allow "stupid builds" and will require a certain amount of performance (dps, heals, etc) to clear content. It sets up a trap for those who aren't aware and actively choosing to handicap their characters.

I haven’t done any relevant PvE in a while but Is the certain amount of performance needed to clear content actually only achievable if every one is playing the meta build or is it actually way lower but people want to be far far above it?

Like is mythic jailer I killable unless every one has the cookie cutter spec or is it just harder?