1. #65261
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Well if it was in the Dragon Isles, they could not access them till now so that's solved.
    Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

    Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?
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  2. #65262
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Yeah still not buying it, just seems like more whinging. Somehow the concept of collecting 5- or 7 or whatever things to lead to something big event happening or what not isn't a bad idea. Weather its stones,gems, pillars or whatever.
    Okay, so you've edited the comment to provide some reasoning. Now, somehow the concept of collecting the artifacts that lead to a big event is a bad idea to me - and yeah, whether it's stones, gems, pillars or whatever else.
    It's the symptom of poor, formulaic writing, lack of creativity and taking the path of least resistence. Now - as I already mentioned - it can work and usually does. But it doesn't change the idea, that themes like this one might feel uninspiring and unambitious. It's like superhero movies - they're okay, they are usually fun, but it doesn't change the fact, that they are not even remotely close to ambitious cinematography.
    Nevertheless, we could go like this all day long and it's pretty much counterproductive I think. It's just my opinion, I do not set it down as a fact. You come here, flip the board upside down, and calli it "whinging".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Hey it wasn't a fanfic it was a two year long Forgotten Realms campaign
    Damn, didn't mean to offend; hope it was fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Meh. It's pretty much impossible to come up with genuinely original basic plotlines. You might as well complain about "hero fights evil, wins".
    Yes, you are right. It's hard to go without influence or inspiration. There's only so much you can come up with. But you go for a little stretch here. There's a difference between theme of good vs. evil and recurring theme of overowered artifact in every single expnasion.

  3. #65263
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Damn, didn't mean to offend; hope it was fun
    I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

    Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?
    The Dragons themselves seem to have sealed it until the time came for them to go back. They could not get back in until Stoneboi lit up the beacon.

  4. #65264
    Herald of the Titans Lady Atia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    It does feel a bit cheap. The aspects knew/had a very good guess to how to restore their powers, after sacrificing them to defeat Deathwing, but they didn't act on it till now, for some reason? Azeroth and the universe itself were in grave danger numerous times, but they just sat it out, and now, when there is no immanent danger to the world(not on the scale of the previous ones, anyway), they decide to go for it.

    Hope they give a good explanation to why it took them so long to try to reclaim their powers.
    They did help us ins BfA against N'Zoth though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.

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    The Dragons themselves seem to have sealed it until the time came for them to go back. They could not get back in until Stoneboi lit up the beacon.
    Yeah they clearly need to do more foreshadowing again. Stuff like the Jailer or now the sudden Oathstones feel like "Harry Potter" level of writing (where every book something new was introduced at the start that was the mcguffin to conclude the story at the end of each book without prior seeding so you didn't really had to know the prior books or in WoW's case the expansion I guess).
    Last edited by Lady Atia; 2022-08-05 at 08:43 AM.

  5. #65265
    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

    Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?
    The announcement cinematic starts with 'let the land slumber, hidden even from our own eyes'.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  6. #65266
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    They did help us ins BfA against N'Zoth though.

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    Yeah they clearly need to do more foreshadowing again. Stuff like the Jailer or now the sudden Oathstones feel like "Harry Potter" level of writing (where every book something new was introduced at the start that was the mcguffin to conclude the story at the end of each book without prior seeding so you didn't really had to know the prior books or in WoW's case the expansion I guess).
    They clearly plan ahead (they have to, development time for expansions requires it) but when it comes to the story they always seem to plan in very broad strokes. So they can do foreshadowing but it is limited to broad terms (and even then they always make it ambiguous since they don't want to risk things not going through).

  7. #65267
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I also used items that were legendary in the campaign (something analogous to the Holy Grail) which also makes the trope stand better. It's bad constantly coming up with the same idea of collect all the McGuffins. It's even worse when every time you just find out that these super important things exist right as the story starts. It works better if the items are established previously. They could have seeded the concept of the Pillars in lore ahead of time. It's why some artifacts immediately felt like better concepts than others; they had strong foundations in existing lore.
    Yeah, foreshadowing is a great mechanism to develop a mystery and drop some breadcrumbs for the future. Without it you lack that beautiful feeling of "OOOOOH, so that's what it was about, nice".

  8. #65268
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The announcement cinematic starts with 'let the land slumber, hidden even from our own eyes'.
    Yeah, so I guess they were shrouded by that titanic device, somehow similar to how Pandaria was.
    unclench your jaw

  9. #65269
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Yeah, so I guess they were shrouded by that titanic device, somehow similar to how Pandaria was.
    More like Uldum I guess.

  10. #65270
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Well, I must have missed that. I was left with the impression that they were already accessible, and the only reason why we're going there now is because of the beacon thing set by that titanic watcher in the cinematic.

    Does it say somewhere why they weren't accessible?
    It's literally all explained IN the cinematic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Yeah, so I guess they were shrouded by that titanic device, somehow similar to how Pandaria was.
    Pandaria was shrouded by magic mist though, not a titanic device.

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  11. #65271
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    It's literally all explained IN the cinematic.
    It's not just explained. It's literally the first thing they say in the cinematic, while they are turning off the beacon. I don't really understand how it could be possible to misunderstand Alexstrasza literally explaining how the Dragon Isles will be hidden from everyone when they turn the beacon off.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  12. #65272
    Epic! AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's not just explained. It's literally the first thing they say in the cinematic, while they are turning off the beacon. I don't really understand how it could be possible to misunderstand Alexstrasza literally explaining how the Dragon Isles will be hidden from everyone when they turn the beacon off.
    I dunno, the question does kind of make sense to me. The cinematic does explain that the Dragon Isles will be hidden & that unless Stoneboi lights up the beacon, they will forever be hidden...but it doesn't explain why they need to be hidden from even the dragons themselves when they have to leave & help us during the Sundering. Are the Isles in danger without the flights there to protect them? Are they worried enough about the problems on the Isles that they want to isolate them from the rest of the world to limit potential threats? Or are they trying to keep the source of their power hidden as a fallback in case the worst happens?

  13. #65273
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Yes, you are right. It's hard to go without influence or inspiration. There's only so much you can come up with. But you go for a little stretch here. There's a difference between theme of good vs. evil and recurring theme of overowered artifact in every single expnasion.
    I think you underestimate just how common this plot is in games.

  14. #65274
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebron View Post
    Yes, you are right. It's hard to go without influence or inspiration. There's only so much you can come up with. But you go for a little stretch here. There's a difference between theme of good vs. evil and recurring theme of overowered artifact in every single expnasion.
    Blizz stated that first tier villains aren't some generic bad guys, but instead people who took a different, not inherently evil approach.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  15. #65275
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    It's not just explained. It's literally the first thing they say in the cinematic, while they are turning off the beacon. I don't really understand how it could be possible to misunderstand Alexstrasza literally explaining how the Dragon Isles will be hidden from everyone when they turn the beacon off.
    It has been a few months since the cinematic was released, so I guess it didn't make that much of an impression on me, in order to remember it.

    My confusion was also fed by the fact, that the said cinematic makes it appear, as if Alextrazsa was already there, when the beacon was lit, since it takes her literally few seconds to grab the watcher, before he hits the ground...
    unclench your jaw

  16. #65276
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    I dunno, the question does kind of make sense to me. The cinematic does explain that the Dragon Isles will be hidden & that unless Stoneboi lights up the beacon, they will forever be hidden...but it doesn't explain why they need to be hidden from even the dragons themselves when they have to leave & help us during the Sundering. Are the Isles in danger without the flights there to protect them? Are they worried enough about the problems on the Isles that they want to isolate them from the rest of the world to limit potential threats? Or are they trying to keep the source of their power hidden as a fallback in case the worst happens?
    Given that there was a legion invasion going in at the time they likely wouldn’t want to risk the legion being able to to hop over to the island and steel some artifacts/release the primal’S and the tech they had might just not be able to distinguish.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #65277
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    What for?

    Surely Sir Pringly, Archduke of the Needle duchy, Lord of the Spikey Estate, does not need introduction.
    Just because he looks absolutely dashing!

  18. #65278
    You guys are just being picky at this point. One of the most widely beloved video games of all time is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, where the title literally contains a huge maguffin, and each of the temples literally contains the macguffin required to beat said temple. It's a common trop in video games, and has been since the 80's. This isn't just some WoW crutch, it's almost an industry requirement. Collect the thing before the other guys do to beat the other guys is the plot for almost every remotely fantasy based story ever created, dating back beyond even King Arthur.

  19. #65279
    The Insane Arafal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelldor View Post
    You guys are just being picky at this point. One of the most widely beloved video games of all time is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, where the title literally contains a huge maguffin, and each of the temples literally contains the macguffin required to beat said temple. It's a common trop in video games, and has been since the 80's. This isn't just some WoW crutch, it's almost an industry requirement. Collect the thing before the other guys do to beat the other guys is the plot for almost every remotely fantasy based story ever created, dating back beyond even King Arthur.
    The problem isn't the trope in use, the problem is that this is the third time in a row that we get this plotline instead of doing literally anything else.



  20. #65280
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelldor View Post
    You guys are just being picky at this point. One of the most widely beloved video games of all time is The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, where the title literally contains a huge maguffin, and each of the temples literally contains the macguffin required to beat said temple. It's a common trop in video games, and has been since the 80's. This isn't just some WoW crutch, it's almost an industry requirement. Collect the thing before the other guys do to beat the other guys is the plot for almost every remotely fantasy based story ever created, dating back beyond even King Arthur.
    More or less what I was thinking.
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