Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Hugnomo]

It isn't that much different. The world quest system isn't bad, just a small amount of world content.




Why? There's no evidence for "Nothing groundbreaking." Its just cynicism cause reasons. Keep in mind if people really want a system with no power related rewards the cypher of the first ones should do well. Emphasis on should.

It was more that I recognize that it's a big ask. A lot of people in this community tend to over hype themselves with wishful thinking or speculation, and ultimately end up disappointed and frustrated over the high expectations they created.
I'm not pessimistic, I always like to think about what amazing things they can create for us. It's just that I won't feel entitled to them if they don't happen.

[Dhomeli]

It isn't that much different. The world quest system isn't bad, just a small amount of world content.

I enjoy world quests fine, but I’d like to see the return of story driven reputation and dailies here and there. It was cool how different rep thresholds led to quest lines and additional dailies in zones like Isle of Thunder and Suramar.

[Sondrelk]

I enjoy world quests fine, but I’d like to see the return of story driven reputation and dailies here and there. It was cool how different rep thresholds led to quest lines and additional dailies in zones like Isle of Thunder and Suramar.

Dailies were hardly needed for the story driven reputations. Suramar showed reputation gated storylines worked just as well with World Quests.

But yeah, unlocking more open world content as you keep going should be encouraged. Shadowlands did flirt with the idea with the Anima Streamers, but that was limited by the covenant system, so hopefully a future version would be something similar to the Anima Streamers except on a larger scale.

[AngerFork]

It was more that I recognize that it's a big ask. A lot of people in this community tend to over hype themselves with wishful thinking or speculation, and ultimately end up disappointed and frustrated over the high expectations they created.
I'm not pessimistic, I always like to think about what amazing things they can create for us. It's just that I won't feel entitled to them if they don't happen.

That over hyping wishlist ideas absolutely leads to player base frustration & disappointment when new expansions are announced. I caught myself doing that when BfA was first announced. People had ideas for a subrace for every race in the game, so when we got the announcement of only 6 subraces to start, there was a weird disappointment rather than the "awesome, 6 new races instead of 2!" I should have felt.

That being said, it's still fun to think about the amazing things that could be created and/or what I'd try to push for if I were in that office. Gives a sort of pre-gift hype, so long as you can maintain that level of excitement when you get a different gift than you described.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

That over hyping wishlist ideas absolutely leads to player base frustration & disappointment when new expansions are announced. I caught myself doing that when BfA was first announced. People had ideas for a subrace for every race in the game, so when we got the announcement of only 6 subraces to start, there was a weird disappointment rather than the "awesome, 6 new races instead of 2!" I should have felt.

That being said, it's still fun to think about the amazing things that could be created and/or what I'd try to push for if I were in that office. Gives a sort of pre-gift hype, so long as you can maintain that level of excitement when you get a different gift than you described.

Well Allied races could of been other races so I can understand thinking of stuff Blizzard may not of thought of. On that note though, cautious and I mean cautious on world revamp, don't fall into the hype hole. Its big.

[Foreign Exchange Ztudent]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJnrodjsXM&t=18s

Game over. Everyone lost.

[Super Dickmann]

Game over. Everyone lost.

Aggressively dull and capping it all of as we began, with an undercooked retcon to an undercooked baddie. It's like poetry, it rhymes.

[KainneAbsolute]

I preferred an ending where also the other Eternals were evil.

[Zers Editor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJnrodjsXM&t=18s

Game over. Everyone lost.

All it says is that the Jailer is defeated. Wasn't that known already?

Also, about him dying. There were leaks going around that in fact he was allowed to exist simply to let the other Eternal Ones to change and grow and that before dying he becomes content with it, apparently.

[Sondrelk]

Aggressively dull and capping it all of as we began, with an undercooked retcon to an undercooked baddie. It's like poetry, it rhymes.

We started this expansion with a villain who was supposedly all-powerful and who has been working behind the scenes since the beginning, and now said villain is gone.

I find it pretty funny how inconsequential this expansion really ended up being in the grand scheme. The First Ones is probably going to be the only thing of narrative value being carried forwards other than smaller stuff like Sylvanas likely not going back to Azeroth, and Bolvar being free.

In the end this supposed grand finale ended up being about on the same level of importance to the narrative as WoD.
An insubstantial expulsion of gas whose main praise is that it looked really good in the absence of anything of much value actually being added to the game.

[Vakir]

All it says is that the Jailer is destroyed. Wasn't that known already?

The point is it's dull as dishwaster. People also had pet theories about him triggering a new revamp and that was never going to happen in that way.

[Sondrelk]

All it says is that the Jailer is destroyed. Wasn't that known already?

No, it was a tossup whether he was killed or simply recaptured.
One means his involvement in the actual plot started and ended in this very expansion, the other at least means he could return in some grand comic book fashion, maybe teaming up with Sargeras or something.

[Hugnomo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nJnrodjsXM&t=18s

Game over. Everyone lost.

Ughhh ... Oh well. Sensing it's going to be a similarly uneventful finale like BfA and N'zoth. Unfortunately. :/

[Super Dickmann]

In the end this supposed grand finale ended up being about on the same level of importance to the narrative as WoD.
An insubstantial expulsion of gas whose main praise is that it looked really good in the absence of anything of much value actually being added to the game.

WoD had the much better setting and actually produced AU Gul'dan, one of the best villains the game has had, as well as reintegrating later with the Mag'har, transferring all its solid orc lore into the main universe. This is closer to Cataclysm's main plot, without the benefit of the revamp content. Complete with being primarily based around the pet character of one of the main writers who used to be Horde Warchief being put in a cosmic plot they had no association with prior to this and a villain who's cast as a cunning manipulator but ends up being more Godzilla and going out like a wet fart while their actions are hastily stapled over. It's more technically competent and the things it wastes are largely inconsequential since little of this will ever come up again, so it's less negative on paper, but it also has none of the revamp content and actual world progression that made Cataclysm's lore outside the main plot so good.

This whole thing, beyond being cut short as rapidly as possible to reach deadlines, looks to be doing little more than doing the heavy lifting for eventual First One content, as you point out. The entirety of the treatment of the Bald Man in particular just baffles me, reconstructing what they were thinking will be a trip once it's all out.

[AngerFork]

Well Allied races could of been other races so I can understand thinking of stuff Blizzard may not of thought of. On that note though, cautious and I mean cautious on world revamp, don't fall into the hype hole. Its big.

I think that's more what I was trying to say. There's always something to be said for thinking of something Blizz may have thought of or missed, but when you start to get too excited about your own ideas it's easy to be disappointed when what is announced misses your expectations. I think world revamp is a major spot where this could occur. There's a lot of world to revamp should that happen & a lot of worry about what could be changed, especially when people have their own head canon of what has happened on Azeroth since Cata.

[UndedoKoleda]

The point is it's dull as dishwaster. People also had pet theories about him triggering a new revamp and that was never going to happen in that way.

People also had theories(and many actually believed them!) that Jaina, Genn and even Tyrande set Teldrassil on fire.

I'm actually glad that we're getting rid of the Jailer, I wouldn't stand seeing him around after all this, similar to Sylvanas after BFA.

Plus this expansion we've got the First Ones, which are a big deal. Denathrius survived and is more than likely to re-appear in the mortal world in a future content focused on Natherezim. There is a chance that we'll bring back to the living world at least some major character, that have died in the past.

So all in all, considering that the damage is already done, in terms on impact on the overall lore, I think that this expansion is in the right spot at the moment.

[Super Dickmann]

Plus this expansion we've got the First Ones, which are a big deal. Denathrius survived and is more than likely to re-appear in the mortal world in a future content focused on Natherezim. There is a chance that we'll bring back to the living world at least some major character, that have died in the past.

This is the main benefit. If they don't kill off Denathrius in a side gig, then the Dreadlords are back and they've introduced what are basically the pre-Chronicle Titans, returning two elements exhausted in Chronicle/Legion that can be used in a future plots. We've wrapped up Sylvanas and Bolvar and they might actually change Anduin up and give him some flaws. Everything else is filler and much like the infinite Legion in all timelines or Thrall's trip through time while becoming a pseudo-Aspect will be ditched and go undiscussed as soon as this expansion is over. They did some good work on a few old characters like Kael and Uther while completely fucking up others, Kel'thuzad being the most galling example.

Past that, a humongous waste of time introducing pointless retcons from the small ones like the Kyrian/Spirit Healer connection to everything concerning the Bald Man mostly to achieve fuck all. The only thing to be said to its credit is that unlike its immediate predecessor it didn't fuck up elements that'll still be relevant later, like BFA completely wrecked both factions and wasted all established threats, and unlike Cataclysm at least its cardboard cutout villain was a new guy and not someone who genuinely deserved better like Deathwing. Having less terrible consequences than the expansion with the worst long term effects on the plot isn't a badge of honor though, no more is having a villain as wretched as Cata Deathwing, without the entire rest of Cataclysm to allow one to overlook the hacked up main storyline. WoD's plot and setting were both better, 'Draenor is free' and all.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

People really overhype themselves(I'm excited to but man don't go crazy).

Gul'dan came to Azeroth. But in terms of big plot stuff that happened nothing really moved forwards when it came to the main plot.

Gul'dan coming to Azeroth is a big fucking deal I don't know about you. You can't just downplay that. Its big and that ending showed Gul'Dan wasn't finished and the pact between him and the Legion was relevant.

[Sondrelk]

WoD had the much better setting and actually produced AU Gul'dan, one of the best villains the game has had, as well as reintegrating later with the Mag'har, transferring all its solid orc lore into the main universe. This is closer to Cataclysm's main plot, without the benefit of the revamp content. Complete with being primarily based around the pet character of one of the main writers who used to be Horde Warchief being put in a cosmic plot they had no association with prior to this and a villain who's cast as a cunning manipulator but ends up being more Godzilla and going out like a wet fart while their actions are hastily stapled over. It's more technically competent and the things it wastes are largely inconsequential since little of this will ever come up again, so it's less negative on paper, but it also has none of the revamp content and actual world progression that made Cataclysm's lore outside the main plot so good.

This whole thing, beyond being cut short as rapidly as possible to reach deadlines, looks to be doing little more than doing the heavy lifting for eventual First One content, as you point out. The entirety of the treatment of the Bald Man in particular just baffles me, reconstructing what they were thinking will be a trip once it's all out.

Point is that the "main" plot barely progresses forwards outside its own bubble.
BfA moved the plot forwards by leaps and bounds. Forsaken being forced to leave Undercity, Nelves losing Teldrassil, Gallywix being forced to leave, Kul Tiras rejoining the Alliance.

SL moves the plot forwards, but mostly just to singular characters or to plot that only really pertains to this expansion.
The Arbiter being changed is technically a big change, but when is it ever going to be relevant again? Same with the Kyrian accepting those that wish to keep their memories. It's big changes to the Shadowlands narrative, but it won't really matter once we leave.

Same thing in WoD. Some characters died, and Gul'dan came to Azeroth. But in terms of big plot stuff that happened nothing really moved forwards when it came to the main plot.

[Makorus]

Call it copium, but I feel like that voiceline is a red herring.

Something like that would be in an actual cinematic, not some random voiced line. Maybe we build some epic machinery and think we will kill the Jailer with it, but it's just some Dreadlord disguised as him and we wasted all this effort for nothing.