Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[olddog]

The star chart is like a titan's remains, not its soul.

That is world soul. The soul of Titan. You mean world soul is not a soul?

[Vakir]

Also, why the red burst from it? I get that Argus goes red in the Mythic phase, but it really more resembles Revendreth-aligned anima.

But let's be fair, they didn't know what put the Arbiter out of commission when they wrote all this.

[Chickat]

So this kinda makes sense. The Argus thing.

Sylvanas didn't start acting crazy until BFA. Her character change and everything leading up to Shadowlands was reactionary rather than planned. It makes it feel more human and imo better that way.

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This was my reaction back when the voice lines were datamined, Pelagos feels like such a random pick that I cannot find any other explanation than he being a last-minute replacement.

It could also be that the arbiter can only be replaced at the Sepulcher? Pelagos is the only pick if that's the case tbh.

[Revamp Man]

Spoilers i found on twitter, seems like a fan theory was confirmed

https://twitter.com/keyboardturn/sta...31702344450055

Can’t see it because they have me blocked
Apparently pointing out that blaming a player who doesn’t play the game anymore for the game having toxic players was a toxic thing to do wasn’t appreciated

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Didn’t they say really powerful souls tied to different magics go to there own areas in death not the shadow lands? Shouldn’t argus go to the arcane plain or what ever?

HA I CALLED IT!!

Argus isn’t a regular Titan
He is a first one and so is Azeroth which is the exact reason those waystones work

[Lorgar Aurelian]

HA I CALLED IT!!

Argus isn’t a regular Titan
He is a first one and so is Azeroth which is the exact reason those waystones work

Has there been any thing pointing to titan/first one overlap or even that there are different kinds of titans?

[Super Dickmann]

Has there been any thing pointing to titan/first one overlap or even that there are different kinds of titans?

No, but I'd be interested in how this story would have gone over if the First Ones were just what the Shadowlands dwellers called the Titans rather than actually being an entirely new element. I get the impression I mind the idea of new progenitors a lot less than most people, but it would have tied the whole business together a lot better and meshed with that Grimoire splash page with Order at the side.

As regards the Argus reveal, it reeks of a last minute addition, even if it makes sense, in as much as Argus is the first mostly mature Titan we've seen die and that it ties the Bald Man into using titans both to initiate and end his plan. The Titans didn't actually die since their deaths and transfers of memories/fragments were retconned as soon as they were introduced and were actually on Argus all along and the only other Titan we know was killed was the baby that Sargeras killed before it reached awareness. I do agree with @Vakir though that they likely hadn't settled on anything and just went with that. The red visual effect and the fact that this isn't brought up otherwise with Denathrius being blamed for the drought makes me figure they intended for it to be Denathrius blasting the robot with his gathered anima, hence the red orb, but never actually spelled it out and since people kept asking they used a popular fan explanation instead.

The Bald Man's actual intro speech is the most boring bit of dialogue ever put to video and I've absolutely no idea why that's a cutscene at all. It's like an AI put together this dude's dialogue. There's a strong case to be made that if you cut every single line of dialogue he has, without exception, not only would the plot come through just as well, he would exponentially improve because then his visual design, minions and context'd speak for him instead of lines that don't even rise to the level of exposition as they don't inform us of anything.

Edit: As with the datamined dialogue about Sylvanas and arrows, nevermind. The quest doesn't explicitly say that Argus knocked out the Arbiter, only that the Dreadlords mean to stick his soul into the Arbiter template being prepared to hijack the process. So stick with the bit above about world souls and them going for a popular fan option, but it's just wowhead clickbaiting again. It's a fine enough explanation if it is more explicitly stated in the actual campaign, even if so late by now that it hardly matters. The Arbiter could've had to shut down to install updates and got stopped at an infinite loading screen and the plot would continue as is. Hell, hear me out on this, that's actually better as then it'd even give a reason why the automa decide to let Pelagos get a spin on it, as nothing really requires the Arbiter to be a person rather than a robot.

[Revamp Man]

Has there been any thing pointing to titan/first one overlap or even that there are different kinds of titans?

According to the weird broker book the titans are children of order
Now as for what points to Azeroth and Argus not being a titan
“She is not the last but the first” while back in MoP a titan posessed Wrathion “we must assemble the final titan”

The eternal ones were originally described as beings beyond titans and later the pantheon of death

Now if we look at azerite powers there’s a lot of mention of creation and presumably you can infer that Azeroth was a being of creation which isn’t something in order

Argus also doesn’t have the power of order but instead a big link to death

[Hitei]

According to the weird broker book the titans are children of order
Now as for what points to Azeroth and Argus not being a titan
“She is not the last but the first” while back in MoP a titan posessed Wrathion “we must assemble the final titan”

The eternal ones were originally described as beings beyond titans and later the pantheon of death

Now if we look at azerite powers there’s a lot of mention of creation and presumably you can infer that Azeroth was a being of creation which isn’t something in order

Argus also doesn’t have the power of order but instead a big link to death

None of this correct.

Just because she is the first doesn't mean that she is not a titan. She could easily just have been the first Titan to form primordially, or be created by the First Ones, but the last one to wake up. Yes, Wrathion mentions rebuilding, that does not mean the Final Titan is some other Titan. The whole purpose of the reorigination system located across Uldum and Ulduar is to destroy Azeroth down to the most basic particles and rebuild it. It is the failsafe for everything going wrong.

Why on earth would you think that creation is not "something in order" or unrelated to the Titans? Half of the races on the planet were created by the Titans. One of the pantheon, Eonar, is entirely based around creating life and nature. They created secondary elemental planes to imprison the Elementals when they ordered the planet. Aggramar created the giants on Draenor. They spend most of their time creating or building shit.

Yes. Argus is linked to death... and Eonar is linked to life. And Sargeras became the primary leader of Disorder. That doesn't make Eonar and Sargeras secretly not Titans. None of the cosmic factions exist in complete isolation. Did you not notice the entire zone in the Shadowlands about growing and fostering Life as part of the cycle of Life and Death? Or that Naaru, beings of pure light, turn to Void creatures when they die?

[Foolicious]

To be the Arbiter means to be a literal mindless NPC, doing a menial job for all eternity. Dunno where this idea that it's some great "honor" and "privilege" came from. Sounds unironically like hell. The character doesn't really faze me as much as the choice to introduce a new arbiter instead of doing away with that position entirely. Shadowlands are still a nightmarish realm and I hate that all living beings in Warcraft will end up there.

I mean the new arbiter looks like he fits right into a nightmarish realm.

I havent keeping up with every detail, but i still don't get why there is such an emphasis on "the voice" of the arbiter. From my understanding there is the construct that does the soulsorting stuff automatically and the voice to speak to others is an attendant which now seems to be useless since the new arbiter according to the cinematics is still himself but locked in the crucible and able to speak on its own behalf.
Like is there a real need for someone to sacrifice himself for the arbiter to work at all?

[Grimbold21]

Blizzard has finally done it... Finally... Lava lash is back to spreading flame shock, i can now return to wow

[Ersula]

That is world soul. The soul of Titan. You mean world soul is not a soul?

It's the mortal package. It's what you see when you're in the mortal plane. It's a world soul but you're seeing the wrapping paper. You normally can't see souls in the world of the living unless somethings gone terribly wrong. This is the only explanation that makes sense. Soul-splitting is a Morneblade thing. Titans' "species" is essentially called a "world soul" but the world, the planet, isn't their body. Their body turns into that starlight thing when they're defeated, essentially a corpse.

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Argus isn’t a regular Titan
He is a first one and so is Azeroth which is the exact reason those waystones work

Argus definitely isn't a first one as he's explicitly YOUNGER than the other titans.

Argus IS a regular titan. But Titans aren't supposed to die. This goes to my theory that cosmic beings have very different concepts of mortality but normally they just go into a regenerative cycle if they are destroyed, which Sargeras used to corrupt them. The Pantheon powering up the players killed Argus for real, sending him to the Arbiter: Something that was never supposed to happen.

[huth]

Argus definitely isn't a first one as he's explicitly YOUNGER than the other titans.

Argus IS a regular titan. But Titans aren't supposed to die. This goes to my theory that cosmic beings have very different concepts of mortality but normally they just go into a regenerative cycle if they are destroyed, which Sargeras used to corrupt them. The Pantheon powering up the players killed Argus for real, sending him to the Arbiter: Something that was never supposed to happen.

Well, it's pretty clear Denathrius and his Unseen Guests were involved in this, so there's also the possibility that he wouldn't normally have gone there at all. Would also explain why it looked like Revendreth aligned Anima.

[Zers Editor]

The (previously datamined) Azeroth globe, and probably also the siphoning azerite essence from the globe animation (looks like the Jailer starts the channel/animation/spell in this cinematic), are indeed at the middle of the Jailers boss room.

Azeroth really is the centre of everything important in the universe, it seems.

I do love how he's literally waiting for us to come and end him. As if he knows he's gonna bite it, but he just doesn't care.

[Makorus]

Dunno about turning the FTM trans character into a character that was previously female and still has a very female form though Kinda sus ngl.

Anyway, really disappointed with the "Oh, it was Argus somehow" explanation. Got a feeling they just pulled it out of their ass because it was the biggest fan theory.

That turns the Jailers 5D chess into like 10D chess, because the fact that we killed Argus, or even went to Argus to begin with was so slim, it's unbelievable. We literally went against prophecy (the whole Illidan thing) to get Argus killed. Just very stupid.

[Sentynel]

Dunno about turning the FTM trans character into a character that was previously female and still has a very female form though Kinda sus ngl.

Anyway, really disappointed with the "Oh, it was Argus somehow" explanation. Got a feeling they just pulled it out of their ass because it was the biggest fan theory.

That turns the Jailers 5D chess into like 10D chess, because the fact that we killed Argus, or even went to Argus to begin with was so slim, it's unbelievable. We literally went against prophecy (the whole Illidan thing) to get Argus killed. Just very stupid.

But this was all planned since Warcraft 3 according to a certain dev

[Makabreska]

Blizzard has finally done it... Finally... Lava lash is back to spreading flame shock, i can now return to wow

Aw shieet, here we WoD again.

[Makorus]

But this was all planned since Warcraft 3 according to a certain dev

Damn, misquoting and deliberately misinterpreting interviews is so cringe.

It's not a personality.

[draugril]

Aw shieet, here we WoD again.

My subscription lapsed awhile ago and I haven't felt the need to jump back in... but this small change is legitimately interesting. Particularly as an Enhancement Shaman that went Necrolord for RP reason. It felt awful to actually play, though.

[Kiivar86]

“She is not the last but the first” while back in MoP a titan posessed Wrathion “we must assemble the final titan”

Personally felt that that line was in reference to Skyja of the nine Val'kyr. She's the last Val'kyr we encounter but she was the first to join the Jailer, and her title even is "The First."

Anyway, looking at the newest build, I had thought that all those mounts you could create were just placeholder for getting them elsewhere but given the achievements put in for crafting fifty protoform creatures...guess not.

[Alanar]

The star chart is like a titan's remains, not its soul.

Where was this stated?