Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Varodoc]

N'Zoth, Zovaal, hell even Sargeras ultimately I'd say were all victims to the fact Blizz likes to just throw villains at us with no explanation, no clear motive, and a raftload of retcons to make them seem important and say "hate them."

Blizz doesn't like to do the actual seeding of their characters, and I don't mean something on the scale of, say, 10 years of buildup. They just refuse to actually show us why we should care. And considering Zovaal especially has had an entire expansion for Blizz to expand on him and make him interesting and has failed at every turn to, that's on them at this point. A better writing team could throw a new villain at us in the 10th hour and make us care enough about their character that the climax feels justified.

Agreed about the Janitor and sort of Sargeras (he just showed up at the end of Legion, said "No", and left). Disagreed about N'Zoth.

N'Zoth's build-up was done extremely well, which is why Blizzard got such a huge backlash with that travesty collectively known as the "Ny'alotha raid".

People were talking and speculating about N'Zoth since like 2010, since he was the only remaining Old God (that we knew of, then Chronicles confirmed this) and he was the orchestrator of Cataclysm. He was indeed the master behind Deathwing, who infused him with power and ordered him to invade the mortal world. The main villains of the expansion (Elementals, Naga, Twilight's Hammer, Faceless Ones) were all taking orders from him. He was the secret puppet master controlling everyone and everything from the shadows, but unlike the Janitor, this was actually good, because we knew since Classic that these ancient creatures known as "Old Gods" existed and that they were behind the corruption of Neltharion, Azshara, etc. etc. etc.

So actually N'Zoth did have 10 years of build-up. Cataclysm-End of BfA was almost precisely 10 years. And I would say that N'Zoth was EVEN MORE built-up BEFORE the Chronicles were released, since at that point it was stated that even Sargeras would beg for a quick death if he had to face the Old Gods. The Old Gods were the ultimate evil of the WC universe, before the Chronicles retconned them into minions of the real ultimate evil, the so-called Void Lords.

Meanwhile in BfA literally no one knew who the Janitor was, because he was made up. Which is why no one will care about the Janitor once he dies.

[Lamoth]

Where the hell that 10 years of build up requirement came from?

Could you point me to the troves of games and other media that have it?

Did Archimonde had 10 years of build up before appearing in Warcraft 3?

I mean that's beyond stupid, calling WoW out on continuity when in really it probably has one of the best ones ever.

Get off your hate horse and look at it realistically, all of Warcraft 3 campaigns combined have less story and buildup then just the leveling campaign of Shadowlands.

[Luck4]

It's an afterlife expansion, but it's treated just the same as Outland or Argus. Just another place.

This is one of the major reasons why I dislike Shadowlands: "this is the afterlife, but you need to remember about it all the time, otherwise, you wouldn't believe it".

They could've fixed it easily by just removing the fauna in Shadowlands. The absence of beasts running around would've created a weird feeling that something is missing, remembering us that we're not in a mortal realm.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Where the hell that 10 years of build up requirement came from?

Could you point me to the troves of games and other media that have it?

Did Archimonde had 10 years of build up before appearing in Warcraft 3?

I mean that's beyond stupid, calling WoW out on continuity when in really it probably has one of the best ones ever.

Get off your hate horse and look at it realistically, all of Warcraft 3 campaigns combined have less story and buildup then just the leveling campaign of Shadowlands.

I would not expect to have an unbiased and logical debate on this topic with the person in question.

[Hitei]

And if they really wanted to get clever with it, they could have killed these people off over the course of the preceding patches or even expansions. Kill off those characters that we enjoy and give us a gut punch, then float the possibility of bringing them back when we ourselves are killed.

But that would require planning ahead and plotting out the narrative years in advance beyond the broad strokes.

Yeah actually, why didnt Blizzard do that? It's essentially the same opening except with more imminent danger. Just have Sylvanas, the Jailer, or even just some minion of his jump through the veil and crush us. Then we wake up in the Maw and we have to do essentially the same plot except we now have more pressing stakes rather than going for a rescue operation that is immediately botched.

How is that any more pressing? Then there's zero need to save anyone at all because they're already regular dead, like Uther, Alexandros, KT, Draka, Vashj, Kael, etc. And the player is in the exact same situation except now it doesn't make any sense for them to make it back to Azeroth because they are just actually dead and belong in the Shadowlands. Which makes the whole fighting against Sylvanas thing sort of nonsense, because you are also hoping for the system to break so that you can be allowed to go back instead of being sent where you belong. Then, additionally, you have the question of why Sylvanas even needed to do this whole thing if there was just a method of escaping your assigned role in the Shadowlands and going back to Azeroth.

I swear, you dorks complain about the writing and then come up with ideas that make even less sense, are even more convoluted, and rely even more on cheap cliched writing.

The best part is I am sure Blizzard has convinced themselves that the events of WC3 through to Legion is this legendary buildup considering how often Zovaal meta-references having a secret hand in everything. I hate how harmless Zovaal is. For a brutal anti-god of death and misery he doesn't do very much. Zovaal should have murdered all the B-tier characters that Blizzard doesn't know what to do with, at least that would have set a good stage. Baine would be perfect cannon fodder for something like this, now there's a character with lots of sentimental value that we would actually care about if killed brutally.

If you kill off a bunch of characters for cheap drama, congrats, you now have a bunch of roles that need to be filled that you have to show either C list characters into or come up with some random character to take that spot, and simultaneously removed interest in the plot because the characters people know and are invested in (positively or negatively) now don't exist and it's harder to care about the new ones.

You are literally taking the biggest problem with Zovaal and trying to fix it by applying that exact same problem to dozens of other characters in the story.

[shoc]

How is that any more pressing? Then there's zero need to save anyone at all because they're already regular dead, like Uther, Alexandros, KT, Draka, Vashj, Kael, etc. And the player is in the exact same situation except now it doesn't make any sense for them to make it back to Azeroth because they are just actually dead and belong in the Shadowlands. Which makes the whole fighting against Sylvanas thing sort of nonsense, because you are also hoping for the system to break so that you can be allowed to go back instead of being sent where you belong. Then, additionally, you have the question of why Sylvanas even needed to do this whole thing if there was just a method of escaping your assigned role in the Shadowlands and going back to Azeroth.

I swear, you dorks complain about the writing and then come up with ideas that make even less sense, are even more convoluted, and rely even more on cheap cliched writing.



If you kill off a bunch of characters for cheap drama, congrats, you now have a bunch of roles that need to be filled that you have to show either C list characters into or come up with some random character to take that spot, and simultaneously removed interest in the plot because the characters people know and are invested in (positively or negatively) now don't exist and it's harder to care about the new ones.

You are literally taking the biggest problem with Zovaal and trying to fix it by applying that exact same problem to dozens of other characters in the story.

It's not like they are really dead. They are in the Shadowlands with you. Baine goes to Ardenweald, Jaina becomes Kyrian to hang with Uther. Thrall goes Necrolord to be with his Mom, and it's like they never died at all.

[Sondrelk]

How is that any more pressing? Then there's zero need to save anyone at all because they're already regular dead, like Uther, Alexandros, KT, Draka, Vashj, Kael, etc. And the player is in the exact same situation except now it doesn't make any sense for them to make it back to Azeroth because they are just actually dead and belong in the Shadowlands. Which makes the whole fighting against Sylvanas thing sort of nonsense, because you are also hoping for the system to break so that you can be allowed to go back instead of being sent where you belong. Then, additionally, you have the question of why Sylvanas even needed to do this whole thing if there was just a method of escaping your assigned role in the Shadowlands and going back to Azeroth.

I swear, you dorks complain about the writing and then come up with ideas that make even less sense, are even more convoluted, and rely even more on cheap cliched writing.



If you kill off a bunch of characters for cheap drama, congrats, you now have a bunch of roles that need to be filled that you have to show either C list characters into or come up with some random character to take that spot, and simultaneously removed interest in the plot because the characters people know and are invested in (positively or negatively) now don't exist and it's harder to care about the new ones.

You are literally taking the biggest problem with Zovaal and trying to fix it by applying that exact same problem to dozens of other characters in the story.

I suppose that is a fair point regarding gaining a whole lot of baggage that needs to be resolved in return for what is truthfully the same outcome.

- - - Updated - - -

Where the hell that 10 years of build up requirement came from?

Could you point me to the troves of games and other media that have it?

Did Archimonde had 10 years of build up before appearing in Warcraft 3?

I mean that's beyond stupid, calling WoW out on continuity when in really it probably has one of the best ones ever.

Get off your hate horse and look at it realistically, all of Warcraft 3 campaigns combined have less story and buildup then just the leveling campaign of Shadowlands.

Noone is demanding that lore buildup exceeds the length of the game. But asking that a villain that is touted as the ultimate final evil have more direct buildup than the expansion he is going to be defeated seems reasonable

It's not like there needed to be a whole lot. A few references in Legion to the flow of souls and something being hidden in the Shadowlands. Some dialogue in BfA where Sylvanas mentions a grand design requiring a large amount of souls, as well as some undisclosed entity we eventually learn is called the Jailer.
A few choice lines and references could have built up an implicit understanding that there was someone or something in the Shadowlands pulling strings behind the scenes.

More than jumping into Shadowlands and learning about a never before mentioned villain, who were behind events that were previously understood to happen for other reasons.
Sylvanas burning Teldrassil was understood in BfA to be because she threw a hissyfit and decided to be a bitch, not that she had some grand plan that demanded burning the tree with civilians inside.


Shadowlands generally comes across like it was envisioned halfway through writing BfA.
Key characters act inconsistently to prior depictions. Intentions are constantly changing. And characters and plotpoints are thrown in like we are meant to come up with our own lore that preceded it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Shadowlands generally comes across like it was envisioned halfway through writing BfA.
Key characters act inconsistently to prior depictions. Intentions are constantly changing. And characters and plotpoints are thrown in like we are meant to come up with our own lore that preceded it.

Intentions changing? No shit they change when presented with new information. Zovaal is the source of Teldrassil's burning, the Lich King and well as pointed out by Danuser the "first book of Warcraft" as in the plotlines of the Scourge, Lich King all come from him.

If anything the Shadowlands wasn't explored enough or rather what we've explored is nice but doesn't feel as much as it could of been(More afterlives to look at).

[frogboi10]

can they retcon this stupid excuse of an expansion and make us wake up after the end of 9.2 raid in front of Nzoth?

[Bsirk]

can they retcon this stupid excuse of an expansion and make us wake up after the end of 9.2 raid in front of Nzoth?

Not gonna lie...I'm onboard with this idea. lol

[ravenmoon]

I never understood why Night elf males had so many old face options... it actually ran contrary to what the lore said - especially if you are druid or highborne.

1. Arcane energies from the Well of Eternity and Moonwells boost life - moreso for night elves connected to it they would look younger
2. Nature magic is life nourishing, druids who wield it would be full of life
3. All that organic food
4. All that sleeping too - you spend thousands of years hibernating in a cave, with all the magic you are connected too, sleeping, totally protected from the elemnts
5. Your race has been immune to the effect of elements
6. If you're highborne, not only does the arcane magic you wield anti-age you, you care enough about your appearance to look good.

All these 6 points prove is that you should have more young, wrinkle free NElf faces - representing Night elf druids and mages which is actually whre the majority of the male night elves work in.


9.2 has given some new customisations:

New Night elf Faces added at last. But so hope they don't stop at 3. They need faces with less wrinkles. I would say they need to add de-wrinkled versions of 3 more.






Look at Malfurion in the cinematics.








Does anyone know if they would add the Star arcane glowing tattoos for Night Elves?
I would also very much love to see stars and arcane glowing outline options available on the tattoos for NElf males and females like Tyrande's here.




Add a setting on the tattoos section of both the males and female.

• Setting 1: Adds stars through out the tattoo areas
• Setting 2: Adds the glowy arcane silver outline to the edges of the tattoo
• Setting 3. Adds a deeper purple background of space/void and a glowy crescent moon

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not gonna lie...I'm onboard with this idea. lol

Randomly retconning an expansion does more harm then any possible good and really people exaggerate SL way too much.

[Luck4]

can they retcon this stupid excuse of an expansion and make us wake up after the end of 9.2 raid in front of Nzoth?

We could make it even better:

[Varodoc]

We could make it even better:

Khadgar genuinely looks like a crack addict in that pic, not the proudest art you could have chosen for him.

[Zers Editor]

I'm surprised they still (at least by Shadows Rising) haven't made Anduin gay, tbh. Even though he's one of the easiest to make so.

[Sondrelk]

I'm surprised they still (at least by Shadows Rising) haven't made Anduin gay, tbh. Even though he's one of the easiest to make so.

Nothing indicates he is gay outside wild reaching in his interactions with Wrathion.
He has been close to a dwarf lady, mentioned to have a thing for Draenei women, and is being hinted at getting a relationship with Talia.

[bagina]

Nothing indicates he is gay outside wild reaching in his interactions with Wrathion.
He has been close to a dwarf lady, mentioned to have a thing for Draenei women, and is being hinted at getting a relationship with Talia.

Anduin might not be homosexual, but he's definitely gay.

[Varodoc]

Anduin is obviously going to marry a girl and have kids, otherwise the Wrynn dynasty will cease to exist, and that would be catastrophic for the people of Stormwind.

Or maybe not, since the public and nobles alike LOVE Turalyon, who was granted immortality by the Naaru Xe'ra...

So maybe Anduin truly is worthless and can just die in that abyss that is known as the FillerLands (though obviously Golden won't allow it).

[Super Dickmann]

Anduin will never be gay because Golden would never let her surrogate son be a homo.

[Nyel]

Late to the party, I've been offline for some days.

Holy crap, the new Arbiter model looks hideous.

On another note: Did something interesting happen in the last days that gives us a hint for the upcoming expansion? Or still nothing going on in that regard? Can someone update me?