Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[mr2t]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/sire-de...poilers-321895

Well, this is the confirmation the Dreadlords' true master is Denathrius, rather than anyone else like the Jailer.

Every time you think it can't get any worse.. it gets worse.

[Le Conceptuel]

Every time you think it can't get any worse.. it gets worse.

I mean, Denathrius is a charismatic villain, if very small relative to the other villains that could've been behind it all. Although I was hoping for there to secretly be a super-evil Dreadlord king hiding out somewhere who was responsible for everything from Denathrius to the corruption of Sargeras or something of the sort, I admit that Denathrius is a good choice, if underwhelming. I suppose he wouldn't make a bad villain for the Nathrezim expansion, if there ever is one. (Or if Shadowlands doesn't end up being the Dreadlord expansion, at least)

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I mean, Denathrius is a charismatic villain, if very small relative to the other villains that could've been behind it all. Although I was hoping for there to secretly be a super-evil Dreadlord king hiding out somewhere who was responsible for everything from Denathrius to the corruption of Sargeras or something of the sort, I admit that Denathrius is a good choice, if underwhelming. I suppose he wouldn't make a bad villain for the Nathrezim expansion, if there ever is one. (Or if Shadowlands doesn't end up being the Dreadlord expansion, at least)

People love him, so he's kinda getting more spotlight, originally we were supposed to kill him in Nathria.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Blizz: "We could tell cool new stories."

Also Blizz: "Or we could just tell Sire Denathrius again in the same expansion."

[huth]

I mean, Denathrius is a charismatic villain, if very small relative to the other villains that could've been behind it all. Although I was hoping for there to secretly be a super-evil Dreadlord king hiding out somewhere who was responsible for everything from Denathrius to the corruption of Sargeras or something of the sort, I admit that Denathrius is a good choice, if underwhelming. I suppose he wouldn't make a bad villain for the Nathrezim expansion, if there ever is one. (Or if Shadowlands doesn't end up being the Dreadlord expansion, at least)

I mean, Denathrius basically was that until we found out. You could even make an argument that he is responsible for himself.

[TheFirstOnes]

The Venthyr and Dreadlord death animations are quite similar

Saw that with Mal'ganis' death yesterday! I AM SO HAPPY!!!!!!

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Blizz: "We could tell cool new stories."

Also Blizz: "Or we could just tell Sire Denathrius again in the same expansion."

The dude is literally a side character lmaooo

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Like, the most we'll see of him is that he'll be freed, and then we'll kill him. Then bam, Sargeras' vampire cousin from another Pantheon is dead.

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I mean, Denathrius is a charismatic villain, if very small relative to the other villains that could've been behind it all. Although I was hoping for there to secretly be a super-evil Dreadlord king hiding out somewhere who was responsible for everything from Denathrius to the corruption of Sargeras or something of the sort, I admit that Denathrius is a good choice, if underwhelming. I suppose he wouldn't make a bad villain for the Nathrezim expansion, if there ever is one. (Or if Shadowlands doesn't end up being the Dreadlord expansion, at least)

Except what you just said there was literally Denathrius. The dude actually caused his Cosmic Cousin to go insane and start the Burning Crusade, though it was more indirect.

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Because remember, Denathrius can't just go to the Great Dark and tell Sargeras "oh yeah btw Void bad cuz dis". The dude still has a job to do.

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https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/sire-de...poilers-321895

Well, this is the confirmation the Dreadlords' true master is Denathrius, rather than anyone else like the Jailer.

Well, of course. However, the plan itself is still the Jailer's. Denathrius just carried out the Enemy Infiltration plot to his Dreadlords, is all. Especially considering the Jailer was...well...trapped in the Maw.

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Also, do we know if there's another Enemy Infiltration book?

[Le Conceptuel]

Except what you just said there was literally Denathrius. The dude actually caused his Cosmic Cousin to go insane and start the Burning Crusade, though it was more indirect.

Well, I rather meant more in the sense of a very relevant Dreadlord King figure. More like a universal conqueror or master sorcerer, think like Azshara with wings, than just the equivalent of a Titan Keeper for the afterlife. He is powerful, but not particularly relevant in terms of what he does.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, I rather meant more in the sense of a very relevant Dreadlord King figure. More like a universal conqueror or master sorcerer, think like Azshara with wings, than just the equivalent of a Titan Keeper for the afterlife. He is powerful, but not particularly relevant in terms of what he does.

I never got why people are saying he's akin to a Titan Keeper. He's more akin to a Titan. The whole Titan Keeper thing was a weird thing Steve Danuser said in June or July of 2020, that got kinda BTFO'd soon after, with Ion, another guy, and Steve Danuser himself basically comparing them to the Titans and other Cosmic Pantheons like that in Cosmic ranking.

Also, if you want a "universal conqueror"...well...

The Jailer. LMAO

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The ONE thing that could maybe help your argument that he's akin to a Keeper would be that weird Odyn thing, where they try to play him off like he's threatening, even though he's literally a fucking tool and is SOMEHOW still sending people to the Maw instead of going there himself. Like, fucker, you're literally freed from the curse. Piss off, ya dick. I could solo you now.

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Man, fuck Odyn.

[Le Conceptuel]

I never got why people are saying he's akin to a Titan Keeper. He's more akin to a Titan. The whole Titan Keeper thing was a weird thing Steve Danuser said in June or July of 2020, that got kinda BTFO'd soon after, with Ion, another guy, and Steve Danuser himself basically comparing them to the Titans and other Cosmic Pantheons like that in Cosmic ranking.

Also, if you want a "universal conqueror"...well...

The Jailer. LMAO

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The ONE thing that could maybe help your argument that he's akin to a Keeper would be that weird Odyn thing, where they try to play him off like he's threatening, even though he's literally a fucking tool and is SOMEHOW still sending people to the Maw instead of going there himself. Like, fucker, you're literally freed from the curse. Piss off, ya dick. I could solo you now.

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Man, fuck Odyn.

Well, the thing is that we've seen Denathrius be curbstomped by ten people. Even a Titan neonate had to have its respective coterie of ten psychotics empowered by all the other living Titans and repeatedly resurrected.

[huth]

Well, I rather meant more in the sense of a very relevant Dreadlord King figure. More like a universal conqueror or master sorcerer, think like Azshara with wings, than just the equivalent of a Titan Keeper for the afterlife. He is powerful, but not particularly relevant in terms of what he does.

Wouldn't that be inherently at odds with their nature? We're looking at an entire species of dedicated infiltrators and deceivers.

[Le Conceptuel]

Wouldn't that be inherently at odds with their nature? We're looking at an entire species of dedicated infiltrators and deceivers.

True. I suppose power's not much of a relevant factor here. Still, it does feel odd to have this nobody have his fingers in everything.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, the thing is that we've seen Denathrius be curbstomped by ten people. Even a Titan neonate had to have its respective coterie of ten psychotics empowered by all the other living Titans and repeatedly resurrected.

You gotta understand that we're pretty powerful by the time we fight Denathrius. We had the Torghast Legendaries, the conduit amps, and some other stuff. And who knows just how big those amps were. The Artifacts and the HoA were HUGE because it was the first time players wielded such powerful tools. Now...it's not that big of a thing to talk about, since we're used to it.

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Also, us battling Argus and being amp'd by the Titan Spirits was basically us taking our first steps into the realm of the Cosmic Pantheons and the forces they rule over. SL is the first extension of that.

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True. I suppose power's not much of a relevant factor here. Still, it does feel odd to have this nobody have his fingers in everything.

I wouldn't say he's a "nobody". To other Cosmic Pantheons, Sargeras is likely seen as a damn raging baby, and that's it, using that same logic.

[Le Conceptuel]

You gotta understand that we're pretty powerful by the time we fight Denathrius. We had the Torghast Legendaries, the conduit amps, and some other stuff. And who knows just how big those amps were. The Artifacts and the HoA were HUGE because it was the first time players wielded such powerful tools. Now...it's not that big of a thing to talk about, since we're used to it.

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Also, us battling Argus and being amp'd by the Titan Spirits was basically us taking our first steps into the realm of the Cosmic Pantheons and the forces they rule over. SL is the first extension of that.

Well, "who knows" has a problem, and it's exactly what it says on the tin. "Who knows?" We can't really tell for sure one way or another.

Furthermore, there's something narratively dissatisfying about having defeated the big baddy of the universe with a one-two punch in some castle in the afterlife.

It also sort of ties into how he's probably doing this on Zovaal's payroll, and Zovaal's simply a very disinteresting villain.

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, "who knows" has a problem, and it's exactly what it says on the tin. "Who knows?" We can't really tell for sure one way or another.

Furthermore, there's something narratively dissatisfying about having defeated the big baddy of the universe with a one-two punch in some castle in the afterlife.

It also sort of ties into how he's probably doing this on Zovaal's payroll, and Zovaal's simply a very disinteresting villain.

Well, Denathrius isn't the big bad of the Warcraft Universe. Zovaal is. Denathrius is basically Cosmic Dracula. And all we did was destroy his physical body.

"Zovaal's simply a very disinteresting villain." Tbf here, we have like no showcase of his power. The guy so far, motivation wise, feels more akin to Darkseid than anything.

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"Well, "who knows" has a problem, and it's exactly what it says on the tin." This is true. Also kinda weird how they're making Odyn seem threatening, even though he himself is fodder asf, and at most made a bitch-made, smaller version of Bastion's Spires of Ascension.

But, considering they're from a cosmic realm, I'd like to assume they share more potential than the weapons made in reality.

[Le Conceptuel]

Well, Denathrius isn't the big bad of the Warcraft Universe. Zovaal is. Denathrius is basically Cosmic Dracula. And all we did was destroy his physical body.

"Zovaal's simply a very disinteresting villain." Tbf here, we have like no showcase of his power. The guy so far, motivation wise, feels more akin to Darkseid than anything.

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"Well, "who knows" has a problem, and it's exactly what it says on the tin." This is true. Also kinda weird how they're making Odyn seem threatening, even though he himself is fodder asf, and at most made a bitch-made, smaller version of Bastion's Spires of Ascension.

Well, it's not about showcases of Zovaal's power. He's disinteresting overall. The entire plot of Shadowlands had a lot more potential and they plain wasted it on a rather pointless villain and using the afterlife, which should be one of the single most relevant things in lore, as a sequence of levelling zones.

Maldraxxus, Bastion, Ardenweald, and Revendreth all could well have carried an Argus-sized minicontinent on their own. But I digress.

The point is that Zovaal is just a big bald dude with no real defining personality other than "evil lol".

[TheFirstOnes]

Well, it's not about showcases of Zovaal's power. He's disinteresting overall. The entire plot of Shadowlands had a lot more potential and they plain wasted it on a rather pointless villain and using the afterlife, which should be one of the single most relevant things in lore, as a sequence of levelling zones.

Maldraxxus, Bastion, Ardenweald, and Revendreth all could well have carried an Argus-sized minicontinent on their own. But I digress.

The point is that Zovaal is just a big bald dude with no real defining personality other than "evil lol".

I kinda like that he's just evil. Lots of characters like Sargeras and even the Old Gods are just Cosmic Forces that think they're right in shit. Makes things kinda tiring. I just want an evil guy.

But I agree, the Jailer's kinda fuckin bland atm. At least he's chadding out this patch.

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[Le Conceptuel]

I kinda like that he's just evil. Lots of characters like Sargeras and even the Old Gods are just Cosmic Forces that think they're right in shit. Makes things kinda tiring. I just want an evil guy.

But I agree, the Jailer's kinda fuckin bland atm. At least he's chadding out this patch.

Honestly, I think that him being just evil isn't a problem at all. It's that he's banal to tears about it. All deep-voiced and dangerous. Maybe if he had Denathrius' voice or mannerisms, that would be more fun.

[TheFirstOnes]

Honestly, I think that him being just evil isn't a problem at all. It's that he's banal to tears about it. All deep-voiced and dangerous. Maybe if he had Denathrius' voice or mannerisms, that would be more fun.

Personally, I think it fits. He's WoW's Satan. He's, imo, supposed to be extremely OP and have a deep voice. Dude's Warcraft's definition of Evil.

[huth]

True. I suppose power's not much of a relevant factor here. Still, it does feel odd to have this nobody have his fingers in everything.

That he has his fingers in everything means he's not actually a nobody, but at the same time, he would most definitely want to be seen as one.

[razorpax]

Interesting little thing I read elsewhere.

With The Nine boss encounter, we learn the name of the last of Sylvanas' nine Val'kyr, Skyja. Skyja's apparently called "The First", as she was the first to swear to the Maw and the Jailer.

This may actually mesh with one of N'Zoth's whispers from the Crucible of Storms:

"She is not the last, but the first. Drown her and you will see."

Skyja's the last Val'kyr we encounter, but she's actually the First of them to join the Jailer. As for drowning her though...well, I guess we'll see?

Of course it could also just be that the whisper is vague enough to fit the situation, as prophecies can tend to be.

Drowning in terms of the whispers mean dying/killing

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Welp, I guess that means that the San'layn really are WoW's vampires, if the Venthyr are Dreadlord's creations

They aren’t
They were created by denathrius