Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Obvious10]

Nerubian and a Plane of Light

I like it, the sooner the better.

An underground exp. would be nice and logical, in combination with a Plane of light, superb, and it would be absolutely awesome if we could meet, and play, lost found Dark Trolls of Light (in balance to Alliance) and in a cooperation with playable Ogres!!!! I hope for some holypriest Ogres, and ofc. Dark Trolls who studies the arcane, they will lead is to an alternate Time plane, and Gobelin Boss Gallywix will be our endboss, I just dont like him...

Add,
Oh yeah, perhaps some background on this?

Dark Trolls were hiding for the upper word, since the time the were defeated by the NE's, rising a strong old hate from NE's towards them, will put the war in Warcraft, and a usable link to a time (plane) aspect??

When I'm right the Ogres came to Azeroth through the Dark portal?? Well then, as they are not the smartest race...they found themselves overpowerd by the other races, and decided they could better hide and go underground. Here the DT's observed Them and decided to adopt them, because they remembered their stories about being overpowerd by the NE's way back in history......

Something like this??


Addadd,
The DT's had to come to the surface, for they need help with the growing nummers of Nerubians, perhaps because the Sword, or because of the opening of the death plane SL, some action of Jailor or something like that??

Gallywix will go made because of all the shiny gems and Nerubian scales the DT's and Ogres wear???

Adds, typos

Add-more,
From wild, savage cannibalism DT's to DT's of light?
Underground they had plenty of food, also lakes which are connected to the oceans...and murlocs ofc... :P
So there was food, and they had time to think hard, reflect, and also work on their magic, were they created?invented?found? portals to other worlds, with friendly and deadly races, so they lived their lives and developed themselves greatly.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

Nerubian and a Plane of Light

I like it, the sooner the better.

An underground exp. would be nice and logical, in combination with a Plane of light, superb, and it would be absolutely awesome if we could meet, and play, lost found Dark Trolls of Light (in balance to Alliance) and in a cooperation with playable Ogres!!!! I hope for some holypriest Ogres, and ofc. Dark Trolls who studies the arcane, they will lead is to an alternate Time plane, and Gobelin Boss Gallywix will be our endboss, I just dont like him...

Add,
Oh yeah, perhaps some background on this?

Dark Trolls were hiding for the upper word, since the time the were defeated by the NE's, rising a strong old hate from NE's towards them, will put the war in Warcraft, and a usable link to a time (plane) aspect??

When I'm right the Ogres came to Azeroth through the Dark portal?? Well then, as they are not the smartest race...they found themselves overpowerd by the other races, and decided they could better hide and go underground. Here the DT's observed Them and decided to adopt them, because they remembered their stories about being overpowerd by the NE's way back in history......

Something like this??


Addadd,
The DT's had to come to the surface, for they need help with the growing nummers of Nerubians, perhaps because the Sword, or because of the opening of the death plane SL, some action of Jailor or something like that??

Gallywix will go made because of all the shiny gems and Nerubian scales the DT's and Ogres wear???

Adds, typos

Add-more,
From wild, savage cannibalism DT's to DT's of light?
Underground they had plenty of food, also lakes which are connected to the oceans...and murlocs ofc... :P
So there was food, and they had time to think hard, reflect, and also work on their magic, were they created?invented?found? portals to other worlds, with friendly and deadly races, so they lived their lives and developed themselves greatly.

Small issue is that Dark Trolls lived in Kalimdor and, as far as we know, only one is still alive. If there are any left, they're probably deep beneath Hyjal, not Northrend, where you'd find Nerubians.

[Nyel]

Incoming blizzard twist:
We don’t kill her and she’s abandoned by the jailer realizing her mistakes and since she is about to truly die she offers to save Anduin in exchange for us not killing her. Next patch we spend our time defending Azeroth against the jailer’s forces and Sylvanas sacrifices herself to save us and she’s given a proper horde funeral and a statue in stormwind because they love genocidal maniacs that murdered their fathers and sons...oh wait it’s so Danny can RP in game

Somehow we have to bring Azeroth into the game. It would make zero sense to have Shadowlands completely disconnected from Azeroth. My issue with this is that it’s basically a rehash of 8.3 or Legion up until 7.3, when Azeroth is invaded by the Jailer / Mawsworn and we have to defend Azeroth. It would be exactly what we did in the last two expansions. In case of Legion it‘s just the opposite order, but eventually still the same.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

True, but we have to involve Azeroth somehow. Otherwise this whole expansion begs the question: Why do we even bother? To rescue the most boring characters this game has to offer from the Maw? Thanks, but no thanks. One of the things people disliked about WoD is that we spent the entire time on the past of an alternate dimension. SL shouldn't make the same mistake.

I mean if Blizz were smart they'd be able to extrapolate the fact that "If we don't resolve this now the Jailer will break through and then it'll be too late to stop him."

The problem is Blizz can't convince us of a villain's threat to save their life. And a lot of that comes from the fact we've stopped Sargeras and thus far everything's just been "kinda on that level of cosmic power."

You know, like how a certain other MMO set up Black Rose to explain why we had to go to another world for 2 years.

[Obvious10]

Small issue is that Dark Trolls lived in Kalimdor and, as far as we know, only one is still alive. If there are any left, they're probably deep beneath Hyjal, not Northrend, where you'd find Nerubians.

Indeed a small issue

According to,
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Nerubian

Nerubian are indeed native to Northrend.
But the Aqir lived on Kalimdor and fought the Trolls, later they spilt tot the North and South......do...the Nerubians could gravel back, underground, tot their ancestors place....????

[Wangming]

You seem to have missed the "leaders" part. They're important political figures. A country sending their best troops in an effort to rescue their leader is normal, not "sloppy writing".

You seem to confuse motivation to the characters with motivation to the players. Of course Characters can't bear the thought of losing Baine even though we have lost a horde leader every other expansion. And the Stormwind population wouldn't be able to contain their tears is Anduin, the king with the least peaceful reign in Azerothian history, had to be replaced by somebody else.

But what of the players? How close is our hero to these people? Depending on where they level, a new player might not even know who they are.

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You know, like how a certain other MMO set up Black Rose to explain why we had to go to another world for 2 years.

Also having taking away characters we have a reason to care about. In the middle of a war that absolutely requires them to get back soon. And coming back to the main second at the earliest possible time. Yes.

[huth]

You seem to confuse motivation to the characters with motivation to the players. Of course Characters can't bear the thought of losing Baine even though we have lost a horde leader every other expansion. And the Stormwind population wouldn't be able to contain their tears is Anduin, the king with the least peaceful reign in Azerothian history, had to be replaced by somebody else.

But what of the players? How close is our hero to these people? Depending on where they level, a new player might not even know who they are.

Motivation for the players? New content, new loot, new music. You don't need a story reason for the players to be there (because, technically, they aren't), you need one for the characters to be there. And no matter what you as a player think, there's no conceivable reason your character doesn't know about these people who, again, are the leaders of your and the biggest other faction on Azeroth.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

The problem is Blizz can't convince us of a villain's threat to save their life.

Except its pretty damn obvious, he blatently says he comes for the soul of our world. He wants Azeroth and him breaking out means Azeroth is on his agenda. Its not fucking rocket science.

[Wangming]

Motivation for the players? New content, new loot, new music. You don't need a story reason for the players to be there (because, technically, they aren't), you need one for the characters to be there. And no matter what you as a player think, there's no conceivable reason your character doesn't know about these people who, again, are the leaders of your and the biggest other faction on Azeroth.

So if they told you tomorrow that you need to goto hell to rescue Joe Biden, you would be totally ready to go?

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Except its pretty damn obvious, he blatently says he comes for the soul of our world. He wants Azeroth and him breaking out means Azeroth is on his agenda. Its not fucking rocket science.

That's the thing. We are told he is a threat. Nothing he does feels threatening so they have to tell us he is evil. And dangerous.

[Makorus]

So if they told you tomorrow that you need to goto hell to rescue Joe Biden, you would be totally ready to go?

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That's the thing. We are told he is a threat. Nothing he does feels threatening so they have to tell us he is evil. And dangerous.

He completely crippled the Shadowlands and every zone other than Ardenweald with his army? He captured every single important leader of Azeroth and corrupted Anduin and made him pretty much take out one of the leaders of the Shadowlands?

I hate that "WELL THEY ARE JUST TELLING US HE IS THREATENING!" argument because it makes no fucking sense at all.

[Wangming]

He completely crippled the Shadowlands and every zone other than Ardenweald with his army? He captured every single important leader of Azeroth and corrupted Anduin and made him pretty much take out one of the leaders of the Shadowlands?

I hate that "WELL THEY ARE JUST TELLING US HE IS THREATENING!" argument because it makes no fucking sense at all.

How much of that was really him and not one of his helpers like Kel'Thuzad, Sylvanas or Denathrius though?

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

It's not that he isn't a threat, it's just that he's so bland and uninteresting that I don't really care if he is. I'm not invested in him, I don't feel threatened.

[Cosmic Janitor]

It's not that he isn't a threat, it's just that he's so bland and uninteresting that I don't really care if he is. I'm not invested in him, I don't feel threatened.

I think they kinda ruined it the moment you see him for the first time. Whatever kind of menacing aura he might have had from the build up at Blizzcon, the moment I saw his ridiculous face, I was just rolling on the floor. The average anime muscled dragqueen parody is more menacing than him.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

It's not that he isn't a threat, it's just that he's so bland and uninteresting that I don't really care if he is. I'm not invested in him, I don't feel threatened.

And the only reason you say that is cause he's not acting sympathetic to you. Sometimes people are too far gone, its a common thing in Fantasy and its not a bad one.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

And the only reason you say that is cause he's not acting sympathetic to you. Sometimes people are too far gone, its a common thing in Fantasy and its not a bad one.

What? No. Not at all. Don't know where you got that from. There are plenty of non-sympathetic villains in media that are great. The Jailer isn't one of them.

[huth]

So if they told you tomorrow that you need to goto hell to rescue Joe Biden, you would be totally ready to go?

No because i'm neither part of my countries armed forces nor an American and thus have no reason to bother or be asked. Would you be ready to go to Hell to rescue Kim Jong Un?

Your character however, is necessarily either one of the biggest badasses the factions have or part of their armed forces with experience in going on expeditions into unknown territory.

[Wangming]

No because i'm neither part of my countries armed forces nor an American and thus have no reason to bother or be asked. Would you be ready to go to Hell to rescue Kim Jong Un?

Which is exactly how the Horde feels when being asked to go to the Shadowlands to bring back Anduin and Jaina.
But quite honestly I think it is time to agree to disagree and move on. What we aren't doing isn't really speculation abou 9.x and 10.0 anymore.

[Raetary]

And the only reason you say that is cause he's not acting sympathetic to you. Sometimes people are too far gone, its a common thing in Fantasy and its not a bad one.

Wrong character trope buddy...

The Jailer follows the ancient evil trope, he's not a sympathetic villain.
He can't be "too far gone" when there is nowhere for him to go.

[AOL Instant Messenger]

He completely crippled the Shadowlands and every zone other than Ardenweald with his army? He captured every single important leader of Azeroth and corrupted Anduin and made him pretty much take out one of the leaders of the Shadowlands?

I hate that "WELL THEY ARE JUST TELLING US HE IS THREATENING!" argument because it makes no fucking sense at all.

Well, the issue is that we have no other grounding for the Shadowlands. For one, we don't really get a good look at what it looks like normally, so it doesn't have as much impact to tell us it's broken. Furthermore, it's not so much due to actual skill on his part that his army is so powerful, it simply seems like an ass-pull. Admittedly, it is true that he technically had a good plan, but the issue is that, for one, sending everyone the Maw and making them part of his army isn't something that was hinted at all too well through the rest of the story, save for a few quotes here and there from a dying Dark Ranger and a few Purified in Drustvar.

It is true that he's had huge impact, it's just not impact we've had any reason to feel and impact without much direct build-up. He sort of comes out of nowhere after Sylvanas builds up his armies with no real interaction with his other minions other than Helya. Maybe if we were given more of his minions converging together, doing more shit actively and clearly together, then it would be more interesting. More signs of Helya through BFA collaborating with Sylvanas other than a passing mention by Odyn, more explicit Meuh'Zalah references to build up to his appearance, and eventually having them all slowly hint at the Jailor being the mastermind behind everything, with buildup maybe being given from the moment they really conceptualized him, like mentions of his name somewhere or something.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Wrong character trope buddy...

The Jailer follows the ancient evil trope, he's not a sympathetic villain.
He can't be "too far gone" when there is nowhere for him to go.

No shit, thats what I said. Too far gone meaning you can't reason with said person.

Well, the issue is that we have no other grounding for the Shadowlands. For one, we don't really get a good look at what it looks like normally, so it doesn't have as much impact to tell us it's broken. Furthermore, it's not so much due to actual skill on his part that his army is so powerful, it simply seems like an ass-pull. Admittedly, it is true that he technically had a good plan, but the issue is that, for one, sending everyone the Maw and making them part of his army isn't something that was hinted at all too well through the rest of the story, save for a few quotes here and there from a dying Dark Ranger and a few Purified in Drustvar.

An asspull would be if he suddenly killed the arbiter and not needing the sigils to break free. All of the SL story is building up to him, he himself is not an asspull, he's just been introduced in the last year or so. You aren't going to get all the info on him right away. Not like we knew who the fuck Kil'Jaeden was when we first saw him.