Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Edward Wu]

His closed vision of Warcraft. Somehow adding some space elements(Its been there since TBC) and I don't think the themes are pushing people away.

If you don't get how TBC was relatable in a way that Shadowlands isn't, then there is absolutely no point further in replying to you. You clearly don't.

[Makabreska]

Let me take a guess for patch 10.0:

1.) New borrowed power currencies called "Dragon dust" and "Dragon Bonesplinters", which you get from time gated redone world content in other phases, which allows you to buy generic cosmetics like "Dragon horn hat #23" or "Dragonkin like mount" in a full color range from RGB 0,0,0 to RGB 255,255,255 (withtout transparency)
2.) No new continent, because, hey, the devs discovered they only would need a 10th of the time to create dumb new world quests which have the difficulty of tying your shoes in regions that already exist. Witness the power of the dragon hordes invading .. Elwyn. Well, and Durotar. You know, home, sweet home, and noone really loves to travel a lot.
3.) New raids. Yes, fully new. No reused assets. Because Ion loves new raids. And he does everything for his organized raiding bros. Because, you know, they are the most loyal players Ion would ever create a game for. Yes, there is LFR, but it is not fun. Sorry, millions of players. Next expac. Promised. As usual.
4.) New dungeons. Yes, fully new. With new assets. Because Ion loves mythic+. And only mythic+.
5.) No new battleground. Ion hates PVP.
6.) Dragon covenants (or whatever word Ion comes up with.. Swarm? YES!). You can join the red, green, black, yellow and that new fluffy pink dragonswarm. Last offers ponies as playable race, the other ones colored dragonkins. Chose wisely, because this time it'll be about character power tied to the covenant.. ehm.. swarm. You know, as like the last time, when almost all streamers complained people would chose the most effective rather than what they like. Oh yes, Ion, that is what happens if you create a game that is all about competition. You know.. effectiveness becomes more interesting than appearance if players over-compete.

This Ion fixation is starting to get out of hand. You gonna blame him next time you spill your drink?

[Super Dickmann]

I would imagine the themes are pretty alienating to a lot fans. Simulated realities, 3D printed gods, etc themes otherwise so divorced from classical fantasy I can get why some people say it "doesn't feel like WarCraft".

But I don't think that's really the main issue with Zereth Mortis. Its just really, really boring looking. Netherstorm in TBC was pretty out in comparison to the standard WarCrafts setting at that point, but at least it was still intriguing looking.

The biggest issue with big parts of Shadowlands, as much as it goes too far is that it doesn't go far enough. The very first expansion had the Light turn out to originate from glass windchimes driving space ships that get turned into factories and Galactus as a 5-man quest mob. Shadowlands faffs about with these big concepts, but doesn't actually play them to the hilt favoring instead some banal personal drama in terms of plot and a well-rendered but in no way unique aesthetic for the zone itself. The closest they come to fully committing to their ideas are the bits of various animals and items that look like fractal patterns or untextured areas, but they're few and far between compared to what's basically the Titan aesthetic with more balls.

It's good looking, but it doesn't scream 'God's design doc' so much as 'Titan Workshop 5.0'.

[Firstonessuck]

The biggest issue with big parts of Shadowlands, as much as it goes too far is that it doesn't go far enough. The very first expansion had the Light turn out to originate from glass windchimes driving space ships that get turned into factories and Galactus as a 5-man quest mob. Shadowlands faffs about with these big concepts, but doesn't actually play them to the hilt favoring instead some banal personal drama in terms of plot and a well-rendered but in no way unique aesthetic for the zone itself. The closest they come to fully committing to their ideas are the bits of various animals and items that look like fractal patterns or untextured areas, but they're few and far between compared to what's basically the Titan aesthetic with more balls.

It's good looking, but it doesn't scream 'God's design doc' so much as 'Titan Workshop 5.0'.

Do you think they will try to salvage the First Ones and their aesthetic/lore for future expansions or will they get shelved indefinitely? There aren't really any plot hooks in the zone itself (on PTR at least) and the Raid very likely may not have big changes based on how calm everyone seems to be during the Epilogue.

[Super Dickmann]

Do you think they will try to salvage the First Ones and their aesthetic/lore for future expansions or will they get shelved indefinitely? There aren't really any plot hooks in the zone itself (on PTR at least) and the Raid very likely may not have big changes based on how calm everyone seems to be during the Epilogue.

The only element to be fully binned at any point was Med'an and the New Council of Tirisfal and they were comic-exclusive. Everything else that was in game appears at the very least in references. WoD, which was the last expansion to have SL's lifecycle and non-popularity still had its most useful elements like the Mag'har transposed into the MU Horde while Yrel was salvaged. Both by Danuser funnily enough. Everything else, popular or not got shot out of a cannon to avoid taint by association. I think something similar is in store for Shadowlands. The Covenants and the afterlives are unlikely to show up again with Death sealed up. The chances that the Jailer comes up again are next to nill given how thoroughly the plot wraps him up and how even 9.2 seems extremely tired of him and doesn't even bother trying to make a good villain out of him at the last minute.

The First Ones and the idea of other Zereths I both think and hope don't appear again, at least not in some form. I'm actually one of the few people who really likes the idea of Zereth Mortis and I think the concepts SL is playing with, poorly as it does, are fairly interesting but as you point out in your earlier posts, the aesthetic is extremely focused and lacks any chance for branching points. They're blowing their load on it now and I see them using the fact that most of the lore is from a character instead of omniscient perspective to be able to say that, for example, the First Ones were Titans or whatever and Zereth Mortis is the only one. Some elements will recur. The chances that Sylvanas appears again are 100% and Denathrius and the dreadlords are no-brainers.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This Ion fixation is starting to get out of hand. You gonna blame him next time you spill your drink?

It already got out of hand, he's the source of all problems these days.


Not that I believe that but its the vibe I get here.

Now here I am talking about how stuff LOOKS, not the zone design/layout/how it plays, just purely on cosmetic appearance.

Its not Maldraxxus. Its an improvement, yeah I know. I don't care much for Maldraxxus too much. I enjoyed being there but it wanes on you fast. That said I rather be in SL then Boralus Harbor all the time.

[Shadochi]

yeah I don't think they've done one thing that is artistically pleasing this xpac. maybe nathria and even that was very one note.

For me personally the launch zones and dungeons were nice artistically, would like to have seen a zone more bit toned down but it was nice to have these for a change. With 9.1 is where the zone has gotten really bad and not even artistically nice. Raid was okay but by that point nothing new, still not bad between the art of the raid and the updated maw area. Would've like to see the Oribos style built upon and expanded instead of using what we already had but broken down. Tazavesh was pleasing as well.
For 9.2 I like that the general area is a bit more toned down and we get grasslands and deserts without being too vibrant, however the Proginator architecture artstyle is one of my least favorite ones so far out of the recent expansion. They tried to make it nice by it being simple and magic-tech based but it just looks like they were making stuff out of basic shapes with glowing lines over them.

Now here I am talking about how stuff LOOKS, not the zone design/layout/how it plays, just purely on cosmetic appearance.

[Khaza-R]

The biggest issue with big parts of Shadowlands, as much as it goes too far is that it doesn't go far enough. The very first expansion had the Light turn out to originate from glass windchimes driving space ships that get turned into factories and Galactus as a 5-man quest mob. Shadowlands faffs about with these big concepts, but doesn't actually play them to the hilt favoring instead some banal personal drama in terms of plot and a well-rendered but in no way unique aesthetic for the zone itself. The closest they come to fully committing to their ideas are the bits of various animals and items that look like fractal patterns or untextured areas, but they're few and far between compared to what's basically the Titan aesthetic with more balls.

It's good looking, but it doesn't scream 'God's design doc' so much as 'Titan Workshop 5.0'.

When they announced I was briefly excited and expecting something different. Almost like Horazon's Sanctuary in D2. A place in between realities where physics are bent and laws are nonsensical. I think they could of really had fun with it if they went in that direction. Part of WoW has basically become celebrating the absurd.

But instead we got an uninspired petri dish.

[TheFirstOnes]

Titans being First Ones would be dumb ngl

[TheHodedOne]

What is wrong with a good old talent tree like the vanilla or at least the cata one? The game has no RPG elements left, only stats.
Could a new talent system that is not a grinding hell be back?

[Dracullus]

What is wrong with a good old talent tree like the vanilla or at least the cata one? The game has no RPG elements left, only stats.
Could a new talent system that is not a grinding hell be back?

'Good old talent tree'? You are taking about this thing where most stuff looks like taken straight from artifact or soulbind tree? I thought Classic worked like vaccine for praising old expac for stuff that just wasn't there.

[Shadochi]

What is wrong with a good old talent tree like the vanilla or at least the cata one? The game has no RPG elements left, only stats.
Could a new talent system that is not a grinding hell be back?

People would just end up going with the cookie cutter build as they do now. Except it would require a lot more simming.

Also by switching from the current talent system to a new one, you don't really get much if you already have max level characters. What was cool before is that you leveled you character and it gave you additional stuff while leveling. If you just got all the points already and a few more with the new leveling experience you wouldn't really get what you are describing and by max level people would lock in their cookie cutter build based on sims until it changes. Most wouldn't choose talents based on 'RPG elements' but guides as it has always been the case since guides became more popular.
Also I would say purely cosmetic systems like race customization and transmogrification are a lot more RP elements than those where you are kinda forced into them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

'Good old talent tree'? You are taking about this thing where most stuff looks like taken straight from artifact or soulbind tree? I thought Classic worked like vaccine for praising old expac for stuff that just wasn't there.

As my guild leader put it, talent trees simply don't work because people go for the best build or what is most effective and not well interesting or fun or whatever.

[Edward Wu]

Titans being First Ones would be dumb ngl

I could see it. We already had a Death Titan and his death irrevocably changed the Shadowlands and had a direct connection with The Arbiter, a creation of the First Ones.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind it. I don't think we need yet another Godly race of super beings. Titans and Void Lords are enough, I feel.

[Cherry123]

Blizzard: The only way to tell a story is to make a character sad
New exspansion: World of Sadcraft : Tales of Sadness

Sad Islands: All characters make a sad face
Main characters: Sadfang, Saduin , Sadvanas and Saddragon
Description : Enjoy the characters storyline and be sad about this expansion

Seriously the storytelling team sucks

[Super Dickmann]

When they announced I was briefly excited and expecting something different. Almost like Horazon's Sanctuary in D2. A place in between realities where physics are bent and laws are nonsensical. I think they could of really had fun with it if they went in that direction. Part of WoW has basically become celebrating the absurd.

But instead we got an uninspired petri dish.

I don't think it's bad, the people complaining about reused assets or the like are disingenuous, given how it's more effort than given to any end of expansion bonus zone short of Tanaan. But it isn't some never before seen Godly photoshop department, it's just what Elunaria from Antorus would look like fully fleshed out with its own budget and given its own raid, constructs included. If they'd sold it as such there'd be less issues, but when it's sold as an ineffable thing when there's really not that much new to it that takes away from what otherwise'd be a success.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I would imagine the themes are pretty alienating to a lot fans. Simulated realities, 3D printed gods, experimental lifeforms, etc themes otherwise so divorced from classical fantasy I can get why some people say it "doesn't feel like WarCraft".

But I don't think that's really the main issue with Zereth Mortis. Its just really, really boring looking. Netherstorm in TBC was pretty out in comparison to the standard WarCrafts setting at that point, but at least it was still intriguing looking.

It's actually very typical progenitor race stuff of high fantasy settings. The way WoW does it is just kinda lame.

[Sondrelk]

It's actually very typical progenitor race stuff of high fantasy settings. The way WoW does it is just kinda lame.

Zereth Mortis fails in my book simply because it's dealing with the Shadowlands, which we don't really know.
Had this been Zereth Umbra or whatever and we had N'zoth attempt to use the very fabric of the universe to win I would probably have been much more engaged.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Zereth Mortis fails in my book simply because it's dealing with the Shadowlands, which we don't really know.
Had this been Zereth Umbra or whatever and we had N'zoth attempt to use the very fabric of the universe to win I would probably have been much more engaged.

Or you just prefer old god stuff.

[huth]

Well in renessaince there were no Knights or Footman with Armor. Also Stormwind looks rather medieval. Not to mention bows, catapults.

Also in medieval there was gunpowder, it was developed in 1250 with cannons and handguns.
And medieval age ended in 1450 or so.

But I see what you mean it looks bit like renesaince. Or I dont know.

But I really dislike that alliance steam ship model. Looks awkward.

Actually, those Knights and Footmen would not exist before the renaissance. They're all clad in full plate, which was mostly around in the late 15th to 17th century.

For that matter, it took quite a while before guns replaced bows and siege machinery. Bows weren't completely replaced until after the renaissance was already over for some time.

So, yes. It resembles a renessaince setting far more than a medieval one.