Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Golang]

Literally nothing wrong with doing the flights as covenants as long as they don't have the abilities tied to them. In fact Id go so far as to say that if they hadn't decided to tie the covenants to power it would be one of the absolute best systems they've come up with.

That's the big if though, are they willing to risk having something that big be purely cosmetic or not. Guess we're gonna find out.

Tieing it to power wasn't the problem. I love the covenant system the way it is currently. HOWEVER not letting you switch covenants freely killed it for most people.

Hell even the time gated story wouldn't have been too bad this xpac if we were able to switch covenants and progress the story of all of the covenants at the same time.

[Catastrophy349]

Covenant Abilities were and always will be bad. Conduits were and always will be bad.

If they do do "Join a Dragonflight" and tie anything power-wise to it, be it a skill tree, or an artifact, or special armor traits, it will always be bad.

I probably didn't elaborate enough on what I meant by Covenants being "good". I meant the concept. Not the soulbinds, conduits, abilities. Those were awful. I simply meant the choice to pick a Covenant to align with, the campaign, the aesthetic, theme, lore, etc. If Dragonflights were simply like Class Order Halls with a campaign, cosmetics, etc., that would be fun.

[Vakir]

The big problem to me isn't even that those systems were awful. It's not even that they tried and failed.

It's that they were so transparently bad and everyone told them they were awful for over a year. And they did it anyway and rolled the same systems back as a hail Mary at the EXACT FUCKING TIME we said they would. Many people still defended it and "wait and see" backed the whole thing because they're simple and turned it into a min-maxer vs. them situation when it was bad for everyone.

They'll do it again unless everyone votes with their wallet. Watch it happen.

[Adoxe]

Thank god this leak didn't happen on April 1st, we would be having Bolvar type arguments all over again for a month.

[JDBlou]

I probably didn't elaborate enough on what I meant by Covenants being "good". I meant the concept. Not the soulbinds, conduits, abilities. Those were awful. I simply meant the choice to pick a Covenant to align with, the campaign, the aesthetic, theme, lore, etc. If Dragonflights were simply like Class Order Halls with a campaign, cosmetics, etc., that would be fun.

I feel that this cosmetic only thing aligns with the mentality they've brought into 9.1.5 and 9.2 and likely the future. I'll be incredibly disappointed if there are dragonflight covenants tied to power.

[Padwarle]

Thank god this leak didn't happen on April 1st, we would be having Bolvar type arguments all over again for a month.

The Bolvar, you mean.

[Golang]

To me personally I didn't mind them at any point even without the easy swapping I think a lot of the issue was Blizzard underestimating just how much of the playervase min/maxes but also I fully acknowledge that I have a very unpopular opinion about SL and that power being tied to it is one of the biggest complaints from what Ive seen so I think purely cosmetic cov/flights would be the best bet

Preventing swapping was the complaint I read a lot about. If there is no barrier to swapping then who cares what the new powers are tied to. Any1 complaining at that point is just complaining to complain.

[Vakir]

Preventing swapping was the complaint I read a lot about. If there is no barrier to swapping then who cares what the new powers are tied to. Any1 complaining at that point is just complaining to complain.

At that point they shouldn't even bother tying it to the system in the first place. Just make it a dual-talent row. They lied and said the "grand design" prevented it but we know it's bullshit now. The only thing that doesn't easily swap is being able to bind a Covenant specific conduit to the Forge when you're on a different one.

Going back to Oribos to talk to the NPC is just a talent with extra steps, Rick!

[leviathonlx]

Personally I love borrowed power/actually liked AP and am personally afraid of the next expansion being a 'classic' expansion like WotLK. That type of gameplay was fine 14 years ago but I want more from my games now days. Though I do agree that said borrowed power system shouldn't have things that hurt the players ability to enjoy the game such as being too spec based like artifacts or be like how covenants initially were.

[Catastrophy349]

I understand the hate for borrowed power systems; however, I think they can also add flavor to each expansion, too. Alternatively, it feels bad to begin feeling powerful each expansion going from X.0 to X.2/3 patch only to leave all of it behind, start fresh, and do it all over again in another expansion. I wouldn't mind keeping some borrowed powers, bringing them to the following expansion and simply innovating them to fit the new theme/aesthetic.

[Adoxe]

The Bolvar, you mean.

Oops, yeah my bad...sorry. I can't believe I dishonored The Bolvar like that.

[KainneAbsolute]

Lore videos

MoP - The Burdens of Shao Hao
WoD - Lords of War
Legion - Harbingers
BFA - Warbringers
SL - Afterlives
DF - Dragonflights? each dragonflight leader talking?

[Catastrophy349]

I understand the hate for borrowed power systems; however, I think they can also add flavor to each expansion, too. Alternatively, it feels bad to begin feeling powerful each expansion going from X.0 to X.2/3 patch only to leave all of it behind, start fresh, and do it all over again in another expansion. I wouldn't mind keeping some borrowed powers, bringing them to the following expansion and simply innovating them to fit the new theme/aesthetic.

I don't think just adding new Dungeons/Raids/PvP BGs or arenas is enough in 2022. People will get extremely bored and quit. There has to be some form of further progression outside of this content.

[therumblings]

Lore videos

MoP - The Burdens of Shao Hao
WoD - Lords of War
Legion - Harbingers
BFA - Warbringers
SL - Afterlives
DF - Dragonflights? each dragonflight leader talking?

It's all coming together. I can see it now.

[Catastrophy349]

Lore videos

MoP - The Burdens of Shao Hao
WoD - Lords of War
Legion - Harbingers
BFA - Warbringers
SL - Afterlives
DF - Dragonflights? each dragonflight leader talking?

Would be spicy!

[Golang]

At that point they shouldn't even bother tying it to the system in the first place. Just make it a dual-talent row. They lied and said the "grand design" prevented it but we know it's bullshit now. The only thing that doesn't easily swap is being able to bind a Covenant specific conduit to the Forge when you're on a different one.

Going back to Oribos to talk to the NPC is just a talent with extra steps, Rick!

Yep thats all it is now and I like it. Was thinking the same, just make it an extra talent row lol

[Hitei]

Lore videos

MoP - The Burdens of Shao Hao
WoD - Lords of War
Legion - Harbingers
BFA - Warbringers
SL - Afterlives
DF - Dragonflights? each dragonflight leader talking?

Aspects seems more likely.

[JDBlou]

Lore videos

MoP - The Burdens of Shao Hao
WoD - Lords of War
Legion - Harbingers
BFA - Warbringers
SL - Afterlives
DF - Dragonflights? each dragonflight leader talking?

Most likely related to the flights but are we going to get a Nozdormu or Chromie PoV one for bronze? Chromie's become quite popular.

[Catastrophy349]

Plot twist! Chromie sends us back in time to locate the Dragon Isles as they currently do not exist in our timeline.

[Vakir]

I understand the hate for borrowed power systems; however, I think they can also add flavor to each expansion, too. Alternatively, it feels bad to begin feeling powerful each expansion going from X.0 to X.2/3 patch only to leave all of it behind, start fresh, and do it all over again in another expansion. I wouldn't mind keeping some borrowed powers, bringing them to the following expansion and simply innovating them to fit the new theme/aesthetic.

I think a variation on Tier Sets are the way to go with that.

I think carrying on the Zereth Mortis forge idea is actually a decent way to do it. Instead of tying it directly to specific drops and an overly unified aesthetic from one source, have it be tied to a more broad system (like Torghast but not boring) as a way of upgrading individual pieces. Then each season it can roll back and have different bonuses to mix up play styles.

For individual dragonflights, they should just stick to aesthetic and cool activities. More timewalking shenanigans for Bronze! Healing the land and reforming zones as Emerald (within reason)! etc.

Yep thats all it is now and I like it. Was thinking the same, just make it an extra talent row lol

I think it's annoying having to talk to them every time (and their dialogue is comical if you swap multiple times daily like me) but it's ultimately better than what it was.

9.1.5 actively made the game better and gave MORE content by creating flexibility. "Meaningful choice" directly limits your ability to access all content in an already content-limited and time-gated game. The sooner people realize that, the better.

(Unpopular opinion, but that also extends to the factions. Fuck 'em.)