Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[minteK917]

I got to agree with brown to some degree, there's limit to this shit. There's difference with useless platitude like trying to not vote Nancy as speaker, which would essentially do nothing since its just going to repeat the vote over and over until people get tired and she wins anyway. On the other hand when you have Bernie as a chairman for budget committee, you have a president, a small house majority and now the tie breaker in the senate. Its time to stop trying to appease the idiots that spit in your face every occasion they get, because you can ACTUALLY have results. Not removing the filibuster now has some value, but the rest of the shit, reaching across the isles is not going work long term or even short term.

You aren't going to magically make the neo-nazi of get on your side and the other republicans will stick to the neo-nazi as well since its the only remaining paths to them getting power again. You don't appease the GOP politicians, you appease people and guess what a lot of the things that the GOP politicians will not want and that you simply should not bargain with, will snap some people out of voting red after the results. You have to show people you are willing to help them and that the GOP is not, and that you do help them once you have the power to do so. This presidency is just starting, so you got to give Biden some time here, but the next 2 years are pivotal. There's too much important issues that the GOP will never agree to and guess what you need to push it through when possible, let them whine about it on TV. The result will speak for itself.

[Felya]

I got to agree with brown to some degree, there's limit to this shit. There's difference with useless platitude like trying to not vote Nancy as speaker, which would essentially do nothing since its just going to repeat the vote over and over until people get tired and she wins anyway. On the other hand when you have Bernie as a chairman for budget committee, you have a president, a small house majority and now the tie breaker in the senate. Its time to stop trying to appease the idiots that spit in your face every occasion they get, because you can ACTUALLY have results. Not removing the filibuster now has some value, but the rest of the shit, reaching across the isles is not going work long term or even short term.

You aren't going to magically make the neo-nazi of get on your side and the other republicans will stick to the neo-nazi as well since its the only remaining paths to them getting power again. You don't appease the GOP politicians, you appease people and guess what a lot of the things that the GOP politicians will not want and that you simply should not bargain with, will snap some people out of voting red after the results. You have to show people you are willing to help them and that the GOP is not, and that you do help them once you have the power to do so. This presidency is just starting, so you got to give Biden some time here, but the next 2 years are pivotal. There's too much important issues that the GOP will never agree to and guess what you need to push it through when possible, let them whine about it on TV. The result will speak for itself.

Do you have 60 votes in the senate? No? Filibuster!!!... What’s next on the docket?

I don’t think democrats should listen to GOP at all. American people need to see the difference between Obama and ACA, Biden with Covid relief with 15$ min wage....... versus the god damn largest tax cut in history for the wealthy.

But, I also recognize the fact that democrats only have 2 reconciliation opportunities, unless filibuster changes.

[Draco-Onis]

Do you have 60 votes in the senate? No? Filibuster!!!... What’s next on the docket?

I don’t think democrats should listen to GOP at all. American people need to see the difference between Obama and ACA, Biden with Covid relief with 15$ min wage....... versus the god damn largest tax cut in history for the wealthy.

But, I also recognize the fact that democrats only have 2 reconciliation opportunities, unless filibuster changes.

During the last 4 years Moscow Mitch gave democrats a master class in power, he gave them a giant fuck you while shoving legislation within weeks no committees no hearing they freaking wrote passages in pen on the margin they gave zero fucks. If democrats go back to the whole normal negotiation shit they will lose by a landslide in 2022 by depressing the base. There's no negotiating with people who literally want to kill you.

[Felya]

During the last 4 years Moscow Mitch gave democrats a master class in power, he gave them a giant fuck you while shoving legislation within weeks no committees no hearing they freaking wrote passages in pen on the margin they gave zero fucks. If democrats go back to the whole normal negotiation shit they will lose by a landslide in 2022 by depressing the base. There's no negotiating with people who literally want to kill you.

They need to make relief bigger and include more shit like the minimum wage. If you are going to use reconciliation, might as well do it in a way that renders the filibuster moot. Just gather everything republicans filibuster into a single bill... show unity by calling it Make America Great Again bill... then turn that son of a bitch side ways, and reconciliation that bill right up GOP asses.

[Draco-Onis]

They need to make relief bigger and include more shit like the minimum wage. If you are going to use reconciliation, might as well do it in a way that renders the filibuster moot. Just gather everything republicans filibuster into a single bill... show unity by calling it Make America Great Again bill... then turn that son of a bitch side ways, and reconciliation that bill right up GOP asses.

Yup democrats need to go big or go home politics as usual is not possible with today's GOP they are a nut job cult dedicated to Trump.

[Felya]

Yup democrats need to go big or go home politics as usual is not possible with today's GOP they are a nut job cult dedicated to Trump.

They need to treat reconciliation, not as a way to push through some policy... it has to be taking all policy, cutting it in half, than passing all of it, as just 2 reconciliation bills. Everything else that requires money, thus can’t be executive ordered, will be filibustered in senate.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Ten Senate Republicans propose compromise covid relief package, request meeting with Biden



For me this will be the first real test Biden will face during his early time in office. He will lose immense amounts of respect in my eyes if he acquiesces to any of this (with the exception, perhaps, of the minimum wage increase; I understand why it's a part of this bill and I agree with it in principle, but it really is out of place). He will take a hit either way, because if he refuses the GOP will use it as ammunition to fuel the impotent rage of their base because "omg Biden so partisan!" ignoring the past 12 years of their own history, but if he chooses to compromise on any of it the Very Online Left will--I don't know, I guess just continue their crusade to hurt their own cause.

People keep saying that the $15 min wage being in the covid relief bill is out of place, and I really don't think it is. $15 minimum wage might be long overdue, it might be a bigger issue than even covid, but really, making sure that nobody is paid under $15/hour for their work would be a real boon to the economy and to the people severely affected by covid. It might even prove enough of a stimulus to get some industries back on track. I know every conservative cries doom and gloom and mass unemployment with minimum wage hikes, but we all know that's utter BS. When we look at past trends with minimum wage increasing, there is zero correlation between minimum wage increasing and unemployment. Unemployment goes up and down with the times, and has never shown a significant uptick when minimum wage was raised, or even raised significantly, in ANY country.

[PACOX]

Biden is the best Democrat a Republican could have hoped for. The fact that they believe he would entertain their bargaining when they hold neither House or Senate shows how much they have studied the man. They knew he was the Democrat to go to when he was in Congress and still think he is that same guy. Buy why play across the aisle as a Democrat when the GOP has spit in the face of everyone continously for the last 12 years (and I'm being conservative with that number). They actually have not stopped, they merely lost their majority. So to even allow them to think they have a speaking place at any sort of bargaining table is disappointing to me. They have shown time and time again they don't don't care about the citizens of the country or law, and that was just 2 weeks ago.


Dems have the votes, use them. And for the Dem that wants to flex, start looking for someone who can primary them. People are still hungry, broke, and desperate. Not the time for the reach across the aisle bullshit.

[SirBeef]

Another option would be to pass the bill that the republican Senators proposed, and then once it is signed start work on the reconciliation bill to be passed in April. This bill would provide needed help between now and April, and in April a more comprehensive bill that democrats could run on in 2022 could be passed just with unanimous democratic support.

We have come up with two really fine solutions for Biden. I hope that what he comes up with is as good as what you proposed, or what I proposed.

No, states and people need the help now and 600B now and the rest a few months from now just won't cut it. And frankly, fuck the Republicans. They don't deserve any benefit of doubt or opportunity to negotiate with since they gave fuck all about doing anything since 2008.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not wrong, and I never claimed to be an authority.
But if you want to satisfy your weird fetish to be bipartisan and get GoP votes on everything, be my guest.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/democra...lp-11611668229
https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020...-eliminate-it/

- - - Updated - - -



If the dems dont pass anything while they have the power to do, they will also lose votes.
I really don't get your fetish for working with the fascist shitstains who won't work with you once they are back in power.

What in God's green earth makes you believe I give two shits about bipartisanship? Unless a bill is done through reconciliation, only certain things can be done this way, or judicial appointments, bulls basically need 60 votes because of GOP shittheel obstructionism.

In certain things they have to negotiate with the other side to get stuff done. Frankly that's what politics is, the art if compromise. Something the right doesn't understand.

As for you, I have never said you claimed to be an authority on American politics. It's the way you come off in your posts. Like the one previously quoted. "Serious politicians understand you only need a simple majority to pass most stuff." You make a statement as if you understand, yet this is clearly not the case in the Senate.

- - - Updated - - -

During the last 4 years Moscow Mitch gave democrats a master class in power, he gave them a giant fuck you while shoving legislation within weeks no committees no hearing they freaking wrote passages in pen on the margin they gave zero fucks. If democrats go back to the whole normal negotiation shit they will lose by a landslide in 2022 by depressing the base. There's no negotiating with people who literally want to kill you.

They also didn't debate a fuckingnthing and passed nothing but a tax bill, that was done through reconciliation, and appointed judges, no filibuster for those. So it's not like he put in a master class on hiw to get things done with less than 60 votes. They were the least active Senate ever.

Would have been a different story if he didn't sit on over 400 bills passed by the House, and was able to pass tons of legislation not through reconciliation. But alas, he pulled the same obstructionist bull shit, yet they were in control. Master class my ass.

[Endus]

People keep saying that the $15 min wage being in the covid relief bill is out of place, and I really don't think it is. $15 minimum wage might be long overdue, it might be a bigger issue than even covid, but really, making sure that nobody is paid under $15/hour for their work would be a real boon to the economy and to the people severely affected by covid. It might even prove enough of a stimulus to get some industries back on track. I know every conservative cries doom and gloom and mass unemployment with minimum wage hikes, but we all know that's utter BS. When we look at past trends with minimum wage increasing, there is zero correlation between minimum wage increasing and unemployment. Unemployment goes up and down with the times, and has never shown a significant uptick when minimum wage was raised, or even raised significantly, in ANY country.

The real issue with the $15 minimum wage is that the $15 figure was arrived at in 2012. Counting inflation, it should be $17, today. It's already decaying, and the longer it gets delayed, the less meaningful that figure becomes.

Meaningful change would be to set that minimum wage to, say, $17 and pin that figure to cost-of-living indices, to be automatically updated on a yearly basis, so we never have to have this conversation again.

If you're hyper-focused on the $15 figure, rather than what it was meant to achieve, you're missing the forest for the trees. $15 is already out of date and insufficient.

[Shadowferal]

No, states and people need the help now and 600B now and the rest a few months from now just won't cut it. And frankly, fuck the Republicans. .

I agree.
And from the political angle, he needs to get it done asap...those "first 100 days" need to shine.

[CostinR]

If the dems dont pass anything while they have the power to do, they will also lose votes.
I really don't get your fetish for working with the fascist shitstains who won't work with you once they are back in power.

The "fetish" as you call it is based on hard realities that exist in Congress. Fact of the matter is that while Dems can pass a COVID reconciliation bill on a pure party line vote they won't be able to do much else ( taxes probably ) in Congress besides confirm political nominees and judges.

Anything that actually matters, including $15 minimum wage given the Byrd rule, would require 60 votes or the Democrats to use the nuclear option...for which they do not have the votes.

[omerome]

Man, when you even have GOP governors asking for aid even if the price is high, because the need is too great, maybe you should actually do something, guise...

GOP West Virginia Gov. Jim Justice calls for a big stimulus, saying "We can't hold back"

"Trying to be per se fiscally responsible at this point in time with what we've got going on in this country. If we actually throw away some money right now, so what?"

https://twitter.com/alizaslav/status...75652463308808

Do you hear that Manchin? Stop fence sitting and do something.

[JohnBrown1917]

The "fetish" as you call it is based on hard realities that exist in Congress. Fact of the matter is that while Dems can pass a COVID reconciliation bill on a pure party line vote they won't be able to do much else ( taxes probably ) in Congress besides confirm political nominees and judges.

Anything that actually matters, including $15 minimum wage given the Byrd rule, would require 60 votes or the Democrats to use the nuclear option...for which they do not have the votes.

They have the 51 votes needed.

[CostinR]

They have the 51 votes needed.

Do they? That's news:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ibuster-462364

They have the votes to pass the COVID bill through reconciliation. They do not have the votes to nuke the fillbuster to actually push regular bills. Also it's not just Manchin:

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) also opposes eliminating the filibuster and said she’s as firm as Manchin and is “not open to changing her mind,” her office said on Monday.

[JohnBrown1917]

Do they? That's news:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...ibuster-462364

They have the votes to pass the COVID bill through reconciliation. They do not have the votes to nuke the fillbuster. Also it's not just Manchin:

Yes, they have the 51 seats. That not all democrats are willing to vote for it does not change that. Because that is democrat problem, and nobody elses.

[Shadowferal]

Psaki on Covid relief bill

Politics...negotiating... GOP went too low, so Biden is saying "Fine. 1.9 wasn't good enough anyway so how about 3.9?...fuckers"

[Benggaul]

making sure that nobody is paid under $15/hour for their work would be a real boon to the economy and to the people severely affected by covid.

The bolded is why I feel it's out of place. The people severely affected by COVID-19 are those who are out of a job, so a minimum wage isn't going to help them anyway. As I understand it the point of the plan was to be short-term immediate aid for those who desperately need it and expanding vaccination distribution, while the raising of the minimum wage is listed as a "gradual" long-term change. Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled for it to pass (though I would not benefit from it), but as Endus points out below:

The real issue with the $15 minimum wage is that the $15 figure was arrived at in 2012. Counting inflation, it should be $17, today. It's already decaying, and the longer it gets delayed, the less meaningful that figure becomes.

Meaningful change would be to set that minimum wage to, say, $17 and pin that figure to cost-of-living indices, to be automatically updated on a yearly basis, so we never have to have this conversation again.

If you're hyper-focused on the $15 figure, rather than what it was meant to achieve, you're missing the forest for the trees. $15 is already out of date and insufficient.

It's a much bigger and nuanced discussion to be had. I think most people can agree that it needs to go up, but while $15 might be enough for some, it's still woefully inadequate and deserves some legislation all on its own. If it has to be cut from the bill to get the rest of it through unchanged then I'll be upset, but not more so than if they whole bill is cannibalized because of it.

[Bodakane]

The bolded is why I feel it's out of place. The people severely affected by COVID-19 are those who are out of a job, so a minimum wage isn't going to help them anyway. As I understand it the point of the plan was to be short-term immediate aid for those who desperately need it and expanding vaccination distribution, while the raising of the minimum wage is listed as a "gradual" long-term change. Don't get me wrong, I'd be thrilled for it to pass (though I would not benefit from it), but as Endus points out below:



It's a much bigger and nuanced discussion to be had. I think most people can agree that it needs to go up, but while $15 might be enough for some, it's still woefully inadequate and deserves some legislation all on its own. If it has to be cut from the bill to get the rest of it through unchanged then I'll be upset, but not more so than if they whole bill is cannibalized because of it.

- Get the cost of living numbers in every county.
- Fine the median and for areas with that CoL make it $15/hr (or whatever number makes sense). Increase or decrease number for each county based on how far or close they are to the median.

[Kellhound]

Yes, they have the 51 seats. That not all democrats are willing to vote for it does not change that. Because that is democrat problem, and nobody elses.

Technically, they have 50 seats and the tie-breaker vote.