Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Themius]

It makes a difference on if it should be encouraged. It certainly doesn't fix any of the problems.

Between two what? I'm quite confused at which right-wing argument you seem to be expecting here.

Between fixing problems with society and allowing illegal immigration?

If you think immigrants are necessary then why not promote more work visas and legal pathways to citizenship that give them place where they are actually needed rather then encourage illegal immigration specifically and hope "invisible hand" will get them somewhere nice(r)?

That would use same pathways as "fixing society" and create clear routes to success immigrants could follow.

If only a certain coup supported by the Obama administration (and both sides of congress tbh) hadn’t happened in 2009... maybe a certain government wouldn’t have swung far right and hooked up with drug dealers that America deported.

[Bodakane]

No one else is a little concerned that while having both the Senate and the House along with the WH, Dems still cannot get a "slam dunk" but anemic stimulus plan passed without having to give up on the already outdated and meager minimum wage increase?

And this is while Repubs are gearing up new and varied legislation to suppress votes going forward?

[Thepersona]

No one else is a little concerned that while having both the Senate and the House along with the WH, Dems still cannot get a "slam dunk" but anemic stimulus plan passed without having to give up on the already outdated and meager minimum wage increase?

And this is while Repubs are gearing up new and varied legislation to suppress votes going forward?

Joe Manchin is an idiot, yes.

[Breccia]

No one else is a little concerned that while having both the Senate and the House along with the WH, Dems still cannot get a "slam dunk" but anemic stimulus plan passed without having to give up on the already outdated and meager minimum wage increase?

The minimum wage is a topic that should have its own bill and its own vote. I'd love it see it raised, even a little. But holding COVID relief hostage to pass it doesn't feel right to me.

Perhaps it will come up again in 2022 and used as a weapon against the Republicans?

[Bodakane]

The minimum wage is a topic that should have its own bill and its own vote. I'd love it see it raised, even a little. But holding COVID relief hostage to pass it doesn't feel right to me.

Perhaps it will come up again in 2022 and used as a weapon against the Republicans?

WADR, that's not the point. The point is, they cannot pass it. They have the "power" and still cannot pass it. Do we really think things are going to get easier in 2022 forward?

The only hope we have is making real change is now, and we cannot even get two things passed that are below what is needed and the majority of the country wants.

[Themius]

The minimum wage is a topic that should have its own bill and its own vote. I'd love it see it raised, even a little. But holding COVID relief hostage to pass it doesn't feel right to me.

Perhaps it will come up again in 2022 and used as a weapon against the Republicans?

Stop... don't fall into the trap of "maybe we can use this against republicans" when the fuck has that actually worked?

After these past few years, how can anyone actually believe it can be used?

If anything the republicans can fake backing it and then blame democrats. Like they've already begun doing.

Holding up covid relief isn't right WHICH IS WHY IT WOULD PASS and not fail. Because that's actually something they want to pass.

As mentioned by Bodakane, it can't pass otherwise...

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No one else is a little concerned that while having both the Senate and the House along with the WH, Dems still cannot get a "slam dunk" but anemic stimulus plan passed without having to give up on the already outdated and meager minimum wage increase?

And this is while Repubs are gearing up new and varied legislation to suppress votes going forward?

The story of democrats... frankly republicans and democrats are virtually the same party in every way but white nationalism and conspiracy theories.

The democrats are the adult Republicans and republicans are... bogus.

[Breccia]

The point is, they cannot pass it. They have the "power" and still cannot pass it.

I know. And that same set of rules kept 2016-2018 from turning into the apocalypse.

I think we'll see a relief bill that passes the Senate, then the Democrats can go nuclear on something else. I also expect to see more states take action themselves, which isn't the result you're hoping for, but the result would be blue states making more than red states, by the choice of the red states.

And of course, I'd love to see Republicans taken to task over the things they publicly votes "no" for. But even I have to admit, the GOP continues to back things that hurt the American people, and still hold positions of power, because single-issue voters. As much as I want them to say "Look I oppose abortion, but I can't live on $7/hour and no health care" we've seen a lot of them would literally rather die (see also: mask usage).

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when the fuck has that actually worked?

COVID and 2020.

The rabid fanbase might be unmovable, but we have proof they're not the majority.

[Bodakane]

I know. And that same set of rules kept 2016-2018 from turning into the apocalypse.

I think we'll see a relief bill that passes the Senate, then the Democrats can go nuclear on something else. I also expect to see more states take action themselves, which isn't the result you're hoping for, but the result would be blue states making more than red states, by the choice of the red states.

And of course, I'd love to see Republicans taken to task over the things they publicly votes "no" for. But even I have to admit, the GOP continues to back things that hurt the American people, and still hold positions of power, because single-issue voters. As much as I want them to say "Look I oppose abortion, but I can't live on $7/hour and no health care" we've seen a lot of them would literally rather die (see also: mask usage).

I agree nuclear would be great, but my point is there's no way that's possible as we cannot even do this simple, "slam dunk". We cannot flick them in the nose, and you're holding out hope of a suplex off the top rope.

Part of the reason for this, is because of the mentality of the Dem power structure that considers people like Manchin, a loyal soldier. he isn't. He's a republican in a dem's uniform. But that is the problem many of us have been saying all along....so many Democrats are more worried about the D or R letter that they ignore the actual ideology of the person. The Repubs don't do that and that is why they've been able to move the country further and further to the right and are absolutely poised to do it again 2022 and forward.

[Orange Joe]

Have you listened to him recently? He can't speak anymore.

yes I have. He sounds 100% better than Trump ever did. He actually has a vocabulary of more than 5 words.

[Themius]

I know. And that same set of rules kept 2016-2018 from turning into the apocalypse.

I think we'll see a relief bill that passes the Senate, then the Democrats can go nuclear on something else. I also expect to see more states take action themselves, which isn't the result you're hoping for, but the result would be blue states making more than red states, by the choice of the red states.

And of course, I'd love to see Republicans taken to task over the things they publicly votes "no" for. But even I have to admit, the GOP continues to back things that hurt the American people, and still hold positions of power, because single-issue voters. As much as I want them to say "Look I oppose abortion, but I can't live on $7/hour and no health care" we've seen a lot of them would literally rather die (see also: mask usage).

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COVID and 2020.

The rabid fanbase might be unmovable, but we have proof they're not the majority.

You can’t be serious... you’re comparing the foul up of a once in a century pandemic killing hundreds of thousands to min wage?

[Breccia]

I agree nuclear would be great, but my point is there's no way that's possible as we cannot even do this simple, "slam dunk"..

And I agree with you, the Republicans being obstructionists are the problem. I also agree we're the half that recognizes that they are intentionally hurting people purely for political power.

It is a tragedy of the modern US that even a pandemic threatening to kill a million people was barely enough to change a few crucial percents' minds. The only consolation I have to offer is, had the rules been different to allow the current setup to pass dozens of things, Trump would have done that in 2016-2018 and we could have had anything from Medicare/Medicaid cuts to ICE going door to door with dog cages.

It's not much of a consolation prize.

I don't know what it will take to move the country to a situation where more people abandon "Fuck you, got mine" and start helping their fellow man. A lethal outbreak wasn't enough. Freezing over Texas might inch us closer.

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you’re comparing the foul up of a once in a century pandemic killing hundreds of thousands to min wage?

No I am not. I don't know where that came from, other than they're both things Republicans are making things worse and Democrats trying to make things better. I was actually fairly specific that they were two separate issues.

[Themius]

\

No I am not. I don't know where that came from, other than they're both things Republicans are making things worse and Democrats trying to make things better. I was actually fairly specific that they were two separate issues.

To the question of why believe that you say "covid and 2020"

which means you're drawing a comparison between covid and 2020 and why you "think" this time will be different.

As if wages are in the same fuck up space as killing half a million people.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Yea remember when Trump said:
"integrating schools will create "a racial jungle"
"You aint black if you vote republican"
“You got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”
“Unlike the African-American community, with notable exceptions, the Latino community is an incredibly diverse community with incredibly diverse attitudes about different things.”
“In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian-Americans moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin’ Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.”

Oh those were all Biden Quotes, sorry.

When you said those were Trump quotes, I felt like they were a thousand percent more coherent and was immediately suspicious. They didn't sound like Trump's dementia at all. Thanks for contradicting yourself though, those are all coherent sentences.


1) Many of those were said decades ago, since when Biden has apologized for what he said, which is leagues better than being openly racist and unapologetic and saying racist things every single day.
2) The one most recent quote, yeah, if you voted Republican in 2016, you were openly voting for someone who has decades of overtly and openly racist incidents against black people. Black people voting for Trump either did so knowingly, buying into their own oppression, or they willfully ignored that he was openly racist and had major support from white supremacists. But Biden apologized for that statement anyway.
3) I don't really give a fuck about someone who has defended openly racist acts by politicians as long as there was an R in front of their name. You posting this is basically concern trolling. You don't care about racism, you just want a cheap shot at Biden.

[Themius]

Why is Biden's DOJ defending Betsy Devos? Even going as far to call it ridiculous to expect a former cabinet member to go to a deposition? As if being a billionaire cabinet member gives someone special rights to break the law. They even called it a fucking PR stunt.

Need proof that Biden’s pledge to get things back to normal is more than words? In a little-noticed legal filing this week, Biden’s Justice Department joined a motion — wait for it — to help Trump’s Education Secretary Betsy DeVos quash a subpoena in a class-action suit over her Department’s alleged practice of slow-walking loan forgiveness for students at for-profit colleges.

It’s not that Biden’s team agrees with what she is accused of doing. It’s that the norms and rules of Washington typically don’t demand former Cabinet Secretaries spend their time in depositions about their tenure in public office. Doing so “would threaten the separation of powers, chill agency decision-making, discourage public service, and create potential for abuse or harassment,” Biden’s Justice Department wrote in its motion.

At the center of this ruckus is a class-action suit filed by 160,000 former students at for-profit colleges. They claim they were swindled by dodgy colleges and, as such, they shouldn’t have to pay back the federal student loans. In other words, they borrowed government money to buy junk courses, and the feds should let them off the hook under an Education Department program known as the Borrower Defense to Repayment.

I call fucking bullshit on that shit.

"look we can't expect former cabinet members who have committed crimes to sit for depositions that would be bad and discourage public service. Fuck outta here with that bullshit, as if these people get into public service for the good of the public and not their own interests.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...iveness-468375

“Plaintiffs’ demand for a former Cabinet official’s deposition is extraordinary, unnecessary, and unsupported,” DeVos’ personal attorney and Justice Department lawyers wrote in a joint court filing on Monday. “It is a transparent attempt at harassment — part of a PR campaign that has been central to Plaintiffs’ litigation strategy from the outset.”

[Jeezy911]

Joe Manchin is an idiot, yes.

Don't worry Manchin will soon be replaced by a far right senator.

[Themius]

When you said those were Trump quotes, I felt like they were a thousand percent more coherent and was immediately suspicious. They didn't sound like Trump's dementia at all. Thanks for contradicting yourself though, those are all coherent sentences.


1) Many of those were said decades ago, since when Biden has apologized for what he said, which is leagues better than being openly racist and unapologetic and saying racist things every single day.
2) The one most recent quote, yeah, if you voted Republican in 2016, you were openly voting for someone who has decades of overtly and openly racist incidents against black people. Black people voting for Trump either did so knowingly, buying into their own oppression, or they willfully ignored that he was openly racist and had major support from white supremacists. But Biden apologized for that statement anyway.
3) I don't really give a fuck about someone who has defended openly racist acts by politicians as long as there was an R in front of their name. You posting this is basically concern trolling. You don't care about racism, you just want a cheap shot at Biden.

Biden apologises like politicians do... when it suits them.

Like his apology to Anita.

He's a better politician than Trump and therefore a lot of people will look the other way while America carries on down the same path it always has, albeit with less white nationalism.

[AntiFascistVoter]

Wyden and Sanders are withdrawing from the $15 fight. I hope the Online Left goes easy on them.

I appreciated that they tried to think of creative solutions, but there's no sense in further delaying and Covid Relief bill. They delayed it for CBO scoring and again for reconciliation. Both failed, time to move on to the next fights and revisit it later.

The Budget Committee Chairman claimed he had 50 votes to get it through. But alas, 48 is not 50.
Made his supporters believe that there was 50 votes for $15/hr (there wasn’t) then failed to garner support for taxing corporations who didn’t pay $15. This is a good example of how the “bully pulpit” theory of politics fails.

[Edge-]

Wyden and Sanders are withdrawing from the $15 fight. I hope the Online Left goes easy on them.

I appreciated that they tried to think of creative solutions, but there's no sense in further delaying and Covid Relief bill. They delayed it for CBO scoring and again for reconciliation. Both failed, time to move on to the next fights and revisit it later.

The Budget Committee Chairman claimed he had 50 votes to get it through. But alas, 48 is not 50.
Made his supporters believe that there was 50 votes for $15/hr (there wasn’t) then failed to garner support for taxing corporations who didn’t pay $15. This is a good example of how the “bully pulpit” theory of politics fails.

Fire. The. Parliamentarian. Cowards.

And tell Manchin and Sinema to shut the fuck up and vote for this one, because it'll get the both of them re-elected. For fucks sake, do Democrats need to start doing power point presentations about how Democratic/progressive policies and legislation are consistently popular amongst voters across all parties? Because they god-damned are, and Democrats keep acting like they're using the Republican playbook and consistently pushing unpopular policies and legislation.

Grow a fuckin spine and play the same hardball that Republicans play.

[Endus]

Wyden and Sanders are withdrawing from the $15 fight. I hope the Online Left goes easy on them.

I appreciated that they tried to think of creative solutions, but there's no sense in further delaying and Covid Relief bill. They delayed it for CBO scoring and again for reconciliation. Both failed, time to move on to the next fights and revisit it later.

The Budget Committee Chairman claimed he had 50 votes to get it through. But alas, 48 is not 50.
Made his supporters believe that there was 50 votes for $15/hr (there wasn’t) then failed to garner support for taxing corporations who didn’t pay $15. This is a good example of how the “bully pulpit” theory of politics fails.

That there's no support for a $15 minimum wage, when $15 was too little in 2012 when it was first worked up, just goes to show how deeply classist American politics is. Bipartisanly. No consideration for the working class and middle class, policy will only be constructed to benefit the capitalist masters.

You get to pick your exploitation with a side of racism or a side of diversity, but you don't get to pick not being exploited.

[Verdugo]

Fire. The. Parliamentarian. Cowards.

And tell Manchin and Sinema to shut the fuck up and vote for this one, because it'll get the both of them re-elected. For fucks sake, do Democrats need to start doing power point presentations about how Democratic/progressive policies and legislation are consistently popular amongst voters across all parties? Because they god-damned are, and Democrats keep acting like they're using the Republican playbook and consistently pushing unpopular policies and legislation.

Grow a fuckin spine and play the same hardball that Republicans play.

Do you think Manchin cares about re-election? He is obviously on GOP payroll.