Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Rasulis]

Becerra for head of HHS is a pretty hard left move for Biden. Not sure he can get the Senate confirmation unless Democrats win both Georgia seats. The guy is a hardcore pro-choice and pro-single-payer health care. Not to mention that he was instrumental in defending ACA against lawsuits from Republican attorneys generals and the Trump administration. He was also responsible for over 100 lawsuits against the Trump administration.

[Milchshake]

Pretty insane that this is considered "hard left".

This kind of framing reveals the inherent bias of beltway pundits. Pro Choice and Healthcare expansion have been standard Democrat platforms for about 40 years.

The media plays it up for the clickbait views.

[Omega10]

It’s not considered hard left by anyone but trolls and those with mental issues.

The depressing thing about this is:

Instead of bringing attention to things Biden is doing right - and he is definitely doing some good things - Biden supporters are focusing on trashing Bernie Sanders and AOC and the left wing of the democratic party. It's as if they believe republican talking points that Biden is a piece of worthless smelly garbage, and so they have no choice but to mimic republicans by just flat out going on the attack.

There are a few pro-Biden posts. But not very many.

My take on Biden is that he is returning a bit of normalcy to the United States. Which is absolutely essential and something non-trivial to do. He has asked people to wear masks for 100 days. He has gotten push back from this "radical" proposal, but it is important that the (soon to be) President of the United States is saying serious things about a very serious virus. It's actually kind of obvious, and if anything I could complain that he is delaying the start of this 100 day period until January 21 rather than right now. But this is certainly a huge step up over the Trump shit show.

The left absolutely SHOULD complain about the corporate nature of his appointees. And I understand why Biden supporters would push back against this and support Biden and his picks. But this support is framed more in the form of "People on the left complaining about Biden are horrible people that are hypocrites" and less of the form "Here is what Biden is doing, and here is what I support from him." There are too many similarities between what Biden supporters here are posting, and what Perdue and Loeffler are putting out in their ads.

Biden supporters trying to trash AOC because of the sweatshirt she is selling are outright disgusting. The phrase Tax the Rich is ... well exactly what Biden has very publicly supported. Biden's plan is to undo the Trump tax cuts for "those making over $400k". This is ... EXACTLY PRECISELY ... what the AOC sweatshirt is calling for.

[JohnBrown1917]

This kind of framing reveals the inherent bias of beltway pundits. Pro Choice and Healthcare expansion have been standard Democrat platforms for about 40 years.

The media plays it up for the clickbait views.

And you help them by doing the same to any politician that is left of centre. like your threads about AOC

[Noxx79]

Why not?

The blame is not on the act of their opposition, but for the ideological principles they use to try to justify that act.

This is what I meant by context. Same reason we don't treat someone who stabs their wife to death for cheating on them the same way we'd treat someone who stabbed a mass shooter to try and stop their rampage. Context fucking matters, and ignoring it to falsely imply the two cases are the same because of the core act is not reasonable in the least.

So you’re saying that if someone says they won’t help you make your bed unless you kill your wife, it’s BOTH SIDES’ fault the bed isn’t made?

That’s exactly what I’m taking about.

If one side won’t negotiate or offers unreasonable demands, it’s one sides fault, but if both sides negotiate in good faith, negotiations must take place, otherwise don’t blame them for nothing happening.

[Endus]

So you’re saying that if someone says they won’t help you make your bed unless you kill your wife, it’s BOTH SIDES’ fault the bed isn’t made?

That’s exactly what I’m taking about.

That's literally not what I was saying. I was saying the opposite; that in that case, it's only the murderous guy who's at fault.

Also, it's a bed. It only takes one of you. Just fucking do it.

If one side won’t negotiate or offers unreasonable demands, it’s one sides fault, but if both sides negotiate in good faith, negotiations must take place, otherwise don’t blame them for nothing happening.

And that's where you start ignoring context again, suggesting that the demands of Republicans over the last, oh, 12 years or so have been reasonable, and thus deserving of compromise.

Plus, as I stated earlier, when one side is arguing for civil rights and freedoms, there essentially isn't a "reasonable" alternative to be negotiated with. The status quo is already unreasonable.

[wunksta]

It just seems that most of the complaints about the Democrats stems from the fact that it has been a big tent party due to the polarizing nature of the GOP. If the GOP starts to fade then there will likely be a split in the Democrat party as they start to distinguish themselves.

[Rasulis]

The left absolutely SHOULD complain about the corporate nature of his appointees. And I understand why Biden supporters would push back against this and support Biden and his picks. But this support is framed more in the form of "People on the left complaining about Biden are horrible people that are hypocrites" and less of the form "Here is what Biden is doing, and here is what I support from him." There are too many similarities between what Biden supporters here are posting, and what Perdue and Loeffler are putting out in their ads.

At that level of government administration, it is probably near impossible to find somebody with the necessary qualifications and experience that is completely free of corporate taint. Becerra defended ACA and DACA, and Planned Parenthood in court. He sued Trump’s administration over oil & gas lease in Fed’s land and water in CA, vehicle emission and mileage limits, border walls, EPAs, sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants incarceration and deportation, etc. All pretty leftist stuffs. Yet, he refused to join antitrust lawsuit against tech companies. That one single act likely disqualified him in the eyes of most far left leaning voters.

[Noxx79]

That's literally not what I was saying. I was saying the opposite; that in that case, it's only the murderous guy who's at fault.

Also, it's a bed. It only takes one of you. Just fucking do it.



And that's where you start ignoring context again, suggesting that the demands of Republicans over the last, oh, 12 years or so have been reasonable, and thus deserving of compromise.

Plus, as I stated earlier, when one side is arguing for civil rights and freedoms, there essentially isn't a "reasonable" alternative to be negotiated with. The status quo is already unreasonable.

Then you agree that it’s not both sides’ fault. Glad we could come to that.

All I’m saying is that if one side won’t negotiate in good faith, it’s not both sides’ fault.

You can’t blame the Democrats for the senate failing to pass any bills, as we have seen certain “liberals” on this board do.

[Verdugo]

It’s not considered hard left by anyone but trolls and those with mental issues.

Thats 40% of US.

[Theodarzna]

It just seems that most of the complaints about the Democrats stems from the fact that it has been a big tent party due to the polarizing nature of the GOP. If the GOP starts to fade then there will likely be a split in the Democrat party as they start to distinguish themselves.

That is a rather charitable reading of the DNC's history. While you could say "Big Tent" but really only one ideological faction actually you know, has power or enacts policy. And given how readily the DNC has absorbed Bush era NeoConservatism; it is wildly optimistic to suggest this is just "Big Tent" or what have you.

Or, this is a pitch of "When my party is the sole party of government, THEN things will actually improve" which is essentially never going to happen.

[wunksta]

That is a rather charitable reading of the DNC's history. While you could say "Big Tent" but really only one ideological faction actually you know, has power or enacts policy. And given how readily the DNC has absorbed Bush era NeoConservatism; it is wildly optimistic to suggest this is just "Big Tent" or what have you.

Far from stopping the rightward radicalization of the GOP, what happened this year may only reinforce the trend. This means many debates that once took place between the parties — about, say, the appropriate size of the welfare state, the proper role of economic regulation or the right way to protect the environment — are being held almost entirely within the Democratic Party.

Imagine that the United States had a multiparty system with proportional representation, as many European democracies do. A government led by Democrats would amount to a coalition involving a left party, a broad center-left party with roots in a once-thriving labor movement, a socially liberal middle-class party, a Green party and perhaps a civil rights party. Coalitions of this sort are not unknown — progressive parties in Scandinavia, Germany, the Netherlands, Spain and Portugal have governed successfully with such alliances — but holding all the pieces together requires the patience of Job and the canniness of Machiavelli.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us

The DNC may be dominated by corporate sycophants but that doesn't detract from the fact that the GOP has been shedding people that don't bend the knee. The DNC is also taking in many different outlying demographics who don't fall into the GOP circle. There's growing contention and in-fighting among Democrats and the only thing keeping them together is that the GOP is still able to be relevant.

[Omega10]

At that level of government administration, it is probably near impossible to find somebody with the necessary qualifications and experience that is completely free of corporate taint. Becerra defended ACA and DACA, and Planned Parenthood in court. He sued Trump’s administration over oil & gas lease in Fed’s land and water in CA, vehicle emission and mileage limits, border walls, EPAs, sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants incarceration and deportation, etc. All pretty leftist stuffs. Yet, he refused to join antitrust lawsuit against tech companies. That one single act likely disqualified him in the eyes of most far left leaning voters.

If you take out the last sentence, this is quite a good post. I have no idea who Becerra is or what post he is being considered for, and so I know more about him now than I did before. Presumably I'll run across this name somewhere along the line and I'll remember what he has accomplished.

After 4 years of Trump - and 8 years of Obama when a fist bump between the President and his wife was called a "terrorist fist bump" - I'm a bit tired of the necessity of using every single little issue to demonize the other side, which apparently for you and many others the other side is far left leaning voters. Which, by the way, would include me.

I'm tired of being demonized, but if Biden supporters are going to fight against us just as hard as Trump supporters did, then I'll cope. I know that eventually the democratic party will split into two. Does this have to happen now?

[Rasulis]

If you take out the last sentence, this is quite a good post. I have no idea who Becerra is or what post he is being considered for, and so I know more about him now than I did before. Presumably I'll run across this name somewhere along the line and I'll remember what he has accomplished.

After 4 years of Trump - and 8 years of Obama when a fist bump between the President and his wife was called a "terrorist fist bump" - I'm a bit tired of the necessity of using every single little issue to demonize the other side, which apparently for you and many others the other side is far left leaning voters. Which, by the way, would include me.

I'm tired of being demonized, but if Biden supporters are going to fight against us just as hard as Trump supporters did, then I'll cope. I know that eventually the democratic party will split into two. Does this have to happen now?

The wordings could have been phrased better. I was simply trying to point out that finding the perfect candidate that can satisfy everybody is hard. Despite all his progressive credentials, Becerra has his share of baggage. Such as his close relationship with the California Police Union and Prison Guard Union. His refusal to endorse a tougher statewide standard to justify police shootings.

[Milchshake]

Meh, it's the horseshoe of grievance politics. Very Online People are mad at people that have a bunch of professional experience.

Anyways it looks like Biden is helping to assemble one of the most diverse and progressive Admin in ages.

Here's Liz!

I had a great discussion with @NeeraTanden today about how the Office of Management and Budget can help working families and strengthen our economy. Neera has exceptional management experience and vast budget and policy expertise to help make this government work for the people.



Oh those comments from Very Online People.

Sorry, but the revolution will not be televised on Twitter!

[beanman12345]

Meh, it's the horseshoe of grievance politics. Very Online People are mad at people that have a bunch of professional experience.

Anyways it looks like Biden is helping to assemble one of the most diverse and progressive Admin in ages.

Here's Liz!

I had a great discussion with @NeeraTanden today about how the Office of Management and Budget can help working families and strengthen our economy. Neera has exceptional management experience and vast budget and policy expertise to help make this government work for the people.



Oh those comments from Very Online People.

Sorry, but the revolution will not be televised on Twitter!

As a progressive, it's certainly not terrible, not what I wishfully thinking with Bernie, but better then I expected with Biden many months ago when he won the primaries. I'm super psyched about the his nominee for HHS Sec.

[Edge-]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/c...ion-trump.html

WASHINGTON — Loyalists to President Trump have blocked transition meetings at some government agencies and are sitting in on discussions at others agencies between career civil servants and President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s transition teams, sometimes chilling conversations, several federal officials said.

At the Environmental Protection Agency, political appointees have joined virtually every discussion between career staff members and Mr. Biden’s team, monitoring conversations on climate change, scientific research and other topics. At the State Department such drop-ins are happening on what Trump appointees define as an as-needed basis. On Tuesday Mr. Biden’s transition team was allowed for the first time into the National Security Agency, but at the United States Agency for Global Media, parent of Voice of America, the Trump-appointed leader is refusing to cooperate with the Biden transition team, two agency officials confirmed.

Presidential transition experts said the presence of political officials at agency handoff meetings was not unheard-of and could even be seen as helpful. President George W. Bush, for example, worked closely in late 2008 with Barack Obama’s incoming team to help calm volatile financial markets. But against a backdrop of President Trump’s refusal to concede election defeat, the actions of Trump appointees appeared to be a pernicious effort to slow the transition, some experts said.

“The norm is that the political people are not involved in the nuts and bolts of this,” said Michael E. Herz, a professor of administrative law at the Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University.

He called the Trump administration’s apparent determination to micromanage the transition process by overseeing meetings part of its broader plan to “milk their authority as long as they can and disrupt the new administration as much as they can.”

Under the Presidential Transition Act, career employees play the primary role in managing the agency transitions, largely because they bring an institutional knowledge about the government functions and have been viewed as unpolitical stewards of the agencies they serve. No clear rules or guidelines, however, detail how the process should unfold.

During the handoff from Mr. Obama’s administration to Mr. Trump, for example, political officials were explicitly disinvited from transition meetings, said Thomas A. Burke, who served as E.P.A. science adviser in the Obama administration at the time.

“To me, that’s the equivalent of having the opposing coach sitting in the room as you’re developing your team’s strategy,” he said.

More norms being blown up for seemingly no apparent reason. Why would political appointees have any role in what is traditionally the work of career employees in managing an incoming administration without partisanship?

Why is the party that talks so much about "tradition" blowing up every tradition they can get their fingers on?

[Breccia]

Biden to tap Fudge

This is amazing news. With the pandemic, this delicious resource has been at an all-time low. Soo the country will be flooded with this rich, chocolatey...hold on, there's more.

Biden to tap Fudge to lead Department of Housing and Urban Development

President-elect Joe Biden is set to nominate Rep. Marcia Fudge (D-Ohio) to head the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), according to multiple reports Tuesday.

Fudge is the second Black nominee to be selected this week, with Biden also tapping retired Gen. Lloyd Austin to be his Defense secretary. Fudge and her allies had pressed the Biden transition to select her to lead the Department of Agriculture, though Bloomberg, Politico and others reported she'll be picked to oversee HUD.

When asked by reporters about the role leading the housing agency, Fudge declined to say if she's been offered the spot, but she said she's been in contact with the transition team — including with Biden himself — and hinted strongly that she's headed to HUD.

"If I were to be named," she said laughing, "certainly it's an honor and a privilege to be asked to be in a president's Cabinet. It is something that probably in my wildest dreams I never would have thought about. And so if I can help this president in any way possible, I'm more than happy to do it. It's a great honor, and a privilege, to be a part of something so good."

The Biden transition declined to comment, and a spokesperson for Fudge said they did not have any information on the possible nomination.

Oh. It's the name of a qualified nominee. Not the popular dessert. I mean, that's probably better but...still kinda disappointed.

[beanman12345]

The wordings could have been phrased better. I was simply trying to point out that finding the perfect candidate that can satisfy everybody is hard. Despite all his progressive credentials, Becerra has his share of baggage. Such as his close relationship with the California Police Union and Prison Guard Union. His refusal to endorse a tougher statewide standard to justify police shootings.

I agree with your point that everyone has baggage. But like we're getting a pro M4A pro female rights etc etc for HHS Sec! Like anyone who disqualified him for working with police simply, is just stupid. And they are the idiots who proved their stupidity by protesting their votes.

[Theodarzna]

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us

The DNC may be dominated by corporate sycophants but that doesn't detract from the fact that the GOP has been shedding people that don't bend the knee. The DNC is also taking in many different outlying demographics who don't fall into the GOP circle. There's growing contention and in-fighting among Democrats and the only thing keeping them together is that the GOP is still able to be relevant.

This is a fairly wild given that the DNC is not this coalition, it is a Neo-Liberalism party with some extra voters, To have a coalition those other factions have to have power.

Again, this seems like "Once only my party rules everything THEN things will be different."