Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[jonnysensible]

Trump made the deal and then Biden implemented it. Bipartisan mistakes!

[CostinR]

Pretty basic stuff. Just by simply negotiating with them, you empower them with legitimacy. That then translates into a whole host of things that gives them more power.

And it's a lot of crap that has been used a lot of the time to justify not having the US meeting hostile powers from Iran to North Korea. It doesn't matter.

The Taliban have legitimacy as a powerful group, whether or not the US meets them.

[D Luniz]

https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/s...835216899?s=19

Governor Ron DeSantis, the dumbest shit ever.

So you want people who rail against a vaccine, but they should get this treatment. Oh btw the cost is much, much more. Likely tens of thousands of dollars.

don't worry, in true GOP run state form
he'll claim credit for it
while vilifying who paid the bill and how they pay it

- - - Updated - - -

And it's a lot of crap that has been used a lot of the time to justify not having the US meeting hostile powers from Iran to North Korea. It doesn't matter.

The Taliban have legitimacy as a powerful group, whether or not the US meets them.

look at it this way

Think of all the youtube/facebook hustlers that no one paid much attention to
Then Trump got elected, and would call them, bring them to the white house, etc.
They didn't run anything, there isn't even evidence(in most cases) that they changed any policy Trump would done
but their view counts, the amount of money they could get so appearances, and hell, what they could get for writing a book, SKYROCKETED

A national leader talking to a terrorist group is the same
did they have "power" before, sure
but that interaction, that being treated as being worth acknowledging boosts that power signifigantly

[TEHPALLYTANK]

And it's a lot of crap that has been used a lot of the time to justify not having the US meeting hostile powers from Iran to North Korea. It doesn't matter.

The Taliban have legitimacy as a powerful group, whether or not the US meets them.

Hard power, yeah, they had that anyways. The US meeting with them however gave them additional soft power, which is on the US for making that decision to empower them by meeting.

[beanman12345]

Hard power, yeah, they had that anyways. The US meeting with them however gave them additional soft power, which is on the US for making that decision to empower them by meeting.

Yeah but trumpers always shake their fist and deny simple things like this, because reality is never kind to their behaviors, so entirely not surprising.

[CostinR]

Yeah but trumpers always shake their fist and deny simple things like this, because reality is never kind to their behaviors, so entirely not surprising.

Fun fact: The US started talking with the Taliban years ago to try and make a deal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...zrP_story.html

But hey "Trump talked to them. Trump bad. So talking with Taliban bad."

Now if one wants to argue Trump made a bad deal with the Taliban, sure if you want to say that, but this whole legitimacy argument has always been a load of nonsense pushed by people who didn't want any kind of talks.

[BronzeCondor]

Biden personally and directly blames Trump for the Afghanistan situation, saying -- correctly -- that Trump negotiated with and therefore empowered the Taliban terrorists.

The whole situation sucks, there was never going to be a right answer, and I'm still not sure if I agree with Biden's decision. But for Trump, who campaigned and ran on getting out of the Middle East, to say "Biden shouldn't have done this" is blaming others for his failures. Trump had his chance. He chose to invite the Taliban to picnic on the White House lawn. He has no moral high ground to give -- on this, or anything.

President Trump blaming President Biden and President Biden blaming President Trump is just political mud-slinging that's been normalized for years. No one should get too emotionally caught up in supporting either side on this matter.

The reality is that Afghanistan was going to fall this way because the US was never going to be committed to stay there forever. It was simply a waiting game for the Taliban. I'm sure the Taliban is also receiving a degree of support from China as China sees Afghanistan as a critical part of its SW Asia Belt & Road Initiative. Just need to take the black eye, our government needs to document some lessons learned (probably won't happen), and move onto the next major geo-political threat.

[szechuan]

President Trump blaming President Biden and President Biden blaming President Trump is just political mud-slinging that's been normalized for years. No one should get too emotionally caught up in supporting either side on this matter.

It's not both sides.

The reality is that Afghanistan was going to fall this way because the US was never going to be committed to stay there forever. It was simply a waiting game for the Taliban. I'm sure the Taliban is also receiving a degree of support from China as China sees Afghanistan as a critical part of its SW Asia Belt & Road Initiative. Just need to take the black eye, our government needs to document some lessons learned (probably won't happen), and move onto the next major geo-political threat.

The reality is that Trump invited the taliban to camp david in 9/11, this is Trump and Trumpers fault.

The release of 5000 Taliban prisoners was also done without the Afghanistan President.

[BronzeCondor]

It's not both sides.

The reality is that Trump invited the taliban to camp david in 9/11, this is Trump and Trumpers fault.

The release of 5000 Taliban prisoners was also done without the Afghanistan President.

Again, this was the reality that was before us, as it was for Iraq. Taking a side on who's to blame for it is pointless and only serves political mud-flinging.

[szechuan]

Taking a side on who's to blame for it is pointless and only serves political mud-flinging.

It isn't.

Yet again completely ignoring that what is currently happening is because of Trump.

[CostinR]

It isn't.

Yet again completely ignoring that what is currently happening is because of Trump.

Trump made an agreement with the Taliban, that they violated, so he could withdraw. Biden choose, yes choose, to follow through on the US pulling out. He could have chosen to stay inside Afghanistan and even bolster US troops there. It would have garnered wide support in many parts of Congress if he had done so.

For US strategic interests what Biden did, and what Trump wanted to do, is the right call: 50 billion a year on Afghanistan was throwing away money. Biden and his administration should just flat out continue saying that ( they have already ) instead of bowing to pressure because the media and Congress are attacking him for the images in Kabul.

[Tazkar]

Trump made an agreement with the Taliban, that they violated, so he could withdraw. Biden choose, yes choose, to follow through on the US pulling out. He could have chosen to stay inside Afghanistan and even bolster US troops there. It would have garnered wide support in many parts of Congress if he had done so.

I don't know about that. If he had chosen to stay or bolster our troop numbers. Then instead of trying to blame him for the Taliban walking right back in, they'd be blaming him for perpetuating the 'Forever Wars'. No matter what decision he made, politically at least the GoP would have turned it into a negative.

[CostinR]

I don't know about that. If he had chosen to stay or bolster our troop numbers. Then instead of trying to blame him for the Taliban walking right back in, they'd be blaming him for perpetuating the 'Forever Wars'. No matter what decision he made, politically at least the GoP would have turned it into a negative.

That's one thing sure.

But Biden isn't just getting blasted by the GOP: Virtually every media outlet is going after him pretty hard for how badly this turned out.

It IS the right decision to withdraw. I wish Biden would be frank about that ( he has been to a degree before the media storm ) instead of trying to play some blame game to make himself look better the situation.

[Tazkar]

That's one thing sure.

But Biden isn't just getting blasted by the GOP: Virtually every media outlet is going after him pretty hard for how badly this turned out.

It IS the right decision to withdraw. I wish Biden would be frank about that ( he has been to a degree before the media storm ) instead of trying to play some blame game to make himself look better the situation.

Don't get me wrong I'm not looking at Biden as being completely in the right with the blame game. Just it really was one of those no win decisions. I'm just super depressed that the Taliban retook Afghanistan so quickly. In no small part since the Afghan Military didn't even resist really, so it really did just kind of show how utterly pointless the last 20 years were. So yeah the right decision, but still a depressing result.

But yeah I do agree that he should be pushing more about how it was the right thing to do rather than continue spinning our wheels over there for literally no point but to enrich contractors.

[Blur4stuff]

I fail to see how this wouldn't be the outcome regardless of when troops left. Most of the attacks against Biden from the right just seem like typical partisan attacks that would be happening regardless (not saying he doesn't deserve criticism).

If anyone on the right has a good point about anything it's going to be impossible to tell because you can't trust them to be genuine and honest.

[Omega10]

Don't get me wrong I'm not looking at Biden as being completely in the right with the blame game. Just it really was one of those no win decisions. I'm just super depressed that the Taliban retook Afghanistan so quickly. In no small part since the Afghan Military didn't even resist really, so it really did just kind of show how utterly pointless the last 20 years were. So yeah the right decision, but still a depressing result.

But yeah I do agree that he should be pushing more about how it was the right thing to do rather than continue spinning our wheels over there for literally no point but to enrich contractors.

Another way to look at it is that the transition of power from a hated government to the Taliban was done quickly, efficiently, and with low loss of life. Most of the lives lost recently was due to US bombing runs trying to destroy US equipment recently captured by the Taliban. The best thing for Afghanistan right now would be for the new government to come into being as quickly as possible. The success of Afghanistan will hinge a lot on whether or not the new government can leverage the US-China war into financial help in building up their country, and their competence in building up at least parts of their country.

Trump and President Biden both bucked the military and political establishment in getting our troops out of Afghanistan. The choice was for us to keep troops there forever propping up a hated government, or let the Taliban take over. I absolutely HATE trump (Orange Man Bad), but his work in getting the US out of Afghanistan is one thing I really like about him, and I am quite pleased that President Biden continued this policy quickly and efficiently.

[BronzeCondor]

Is Joe Biden considered a racist for making the following comments?

• "If you have a problem figuring out if you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black."
• "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."
• "You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent."

[Kellhound]

Is Joe Biden considered a racist for making the following comments?

Liberals cannot be racists.

[postman1782]

Is Joe Biden considered a racist for making the following comments?

Funny, because the black people agreed with him on the first point, especially with the vast history of racism from Trump.

[BronzeCondor]

Funny, because the black people agreed with him on the first point, especially with the vast history of racism from Trump.

"the black people", huh? For someone who likes to throw the racist word around a lot, you sure have a way with words.

And I guess not everyone shares your sentiment:

Black men shift slightly toward Trump in record numbers, polls show
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/...-show-n1246447

(great headline by the way: "shift slightly", "record numbers", lol)