Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[gondrin]

My entire point is that minimum wage and bonuses for essential workers need to come before bonus unemployment. The argument is quite simply that what society needs most should be most incentivized. Essential workers and really anyone working should make more than people sitting at home. Society needs them more. 600 dollars extra still seems like entirely too much for most states. People are fighting for a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage for doing actual work, maybe unemployment shouldn't pay 25% more than that.

And you guys are deluding yourself if you think people can't/don't game unemployment, especially right now. That shouldn't be more lucrative than actually working.

Yeah, people do game unemployment. With millions of people in any system, there will be some that do cheat. Thing is to minimize it. However, where I live(Ohio), it is incredibly easy to get rejected from unemployment as it is an At Will state. If you quit or are fired, it is generally up to the employee to prove they weren't fired for cause which can be generally any reason given outside of just being let go.

[Themius]

My entire point is that minimum wage and bonuses for essential workers need to come before bonus unemployment. The argument is quite simply that what society needs most should be most incentivized. Essential workers and really anyone working should make more than people sitting at home. Society needs them more. 600 dollars extra still seems like entirely too much for most states. People are fighting for a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage for doing actual work, maybe unemployment shouldn't pay 25% more than that.

And you guys are deluding yourself if you think people can't/don't game unemployment, especially right now. That shouldn't be more lucrative than actually working.

What society needs most is for people to be able to survive without being wage slaves.... Do the people sitting at home suddenly not have rent and debt? What a foolish notion.

[Bodakane]

Conservatives hold businesses to no ethical standards at all. They are allowed to lie, cheat, steal, fire, pollute, or whatever, as long as the bottom line is good.

Then, conservatives want employees to be held to stringent ethical standards....like taking pride in their work, busting their asses, not cheating or not stealing from the company, and taking less money to work harder.

That's some baby back bullshit.

[Felya]

And you guys are deluding yourself if you think people can't/don't game unemployment, especially right now. That shouldn't be more lucrative than actually working.

I literally responded to you saying I was collecting unemployment in the summer... it’s not about being lucrative... your priorities are fucked.

Edit: I will repeat... I was making less, even with 600 bonus. I didn’t and don’t complain, because this has nothing to do with being lucrative. This is not about making money...

[gondrin]

This isn’t a bonus in the since of a gift... This is a bonus so people don’t go broke... This isn’t a reword for a job well done...

Edit: Minimum wage increase will impact essential workers, like delivery and packing personnel. It will impact the majority of front line workers. You know... the McDonnalds cashier risking getting covid for minimum wage, so we can get fast food.

Sorry for the derail but I would love to see some of these people work either McDonalds at lunch/dinner rush or like Wal-Mart on Black Friday for minimum wage. Lets see how they fare after that.

[Jtbrig7390]

That shouldn't be more lucrative than actually working.

If Unemployement is more lucrative than actually working, the problem isn't unemployment. Its the slave wages and the shitty conditions people work in that is the problem.

[Bodakane]

If Unemployement is more lucrative than actually working, the problem isn't unemployment. Its the slave wages and the shitty conditions people work in that is the problem.

Boom........qft

[Felya]

Sorry for the derail but I would love to see some of these people work either McDonalds at lunch/dinner rush or like Wal-Mart on Black Friday for minimum wage. Lets see how they fare after that.

It’s why I chose them... people consider them stupid teenagers, not people risking getting virus, that will take away even the minimum wage they are making. They support front line workers as a concept, because they think of nurses, cops and firefighters. They don’t consider the kids at 7/11 or the driver of their uber eats or the packer at Amazon, as front line workers... or essential... paying them 7 something an hour, just reinforces that notion.

Think about how much you would need to be paid, to be berated by Trump supporters, because your 7/11 has a mask policy?

[Bodakane]

Think about how much you would need to be paid, to be berated by Trump supporters, because your 7/11 has a mask policy?

I'd rather be homeless.

[cordrann]

Ok, explain to me how anyone sitting at home making $600/week is affecting you personally in any way? Are you that jealous of what someone else is getting that you are now embarrassed at what you are getting that instead of fighting for more, you want to take away from someone else?

Sorry for the derail.

It has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for me. I obviously benefitted from the extra money when my wife was getting it. It has to do with what is actually reasonable for our society without the value of the dollar collapsing.

[Felya]

It has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for me. I obviously benefitted from the extra money when my wife was getting it. It has to do with what is actually reasonable for our society without the value of the dollar collapsing.

The value of the dollar isn’t going to collapse over expanded unemployment, that is absolutely ludicrous. In fact, your own argument said to spend that money on essential workers, instead of people without jobs. Inherently meaning, that the value of the dollar cannot possibly be your rational.

[Themius]

It has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for me. I obviously benefitted from the extra money when my wife was getting it. It has to do with what is actually reasonable for our society without the value of the dollar collapsing.

The almighty dollar... honestly I can’t take capitalist shilling especially from a person who has a wife on unemployment. You don’t seem to get how things work...

[gondrin]

It has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for me. I obviously benefitted from the extra money when my wife was getting it. It has to do with what is actually reasonable for our society without the value of the dollar collapsing.

It would take FAR more for the dollar to collapse. Talking about printing nearly 10X as much year over year for it to be the case. Most ironic part is the dollar is one of the most stable currencies on earth. I am more worried about the sun exploding in billions of years then the dollar collapsing over a small stimulus compared to other things we spend stuff on.

[Bodakane]

It has absolutely nothing to do with what is best for me. I obviously benefitted from the extra money when my wife was getting it. It has to do with what is actually reasonable for our society without the value of the dollar collapsing.

I don't think its ok that you tell us what is reasonable or right for a society all while doing something you think is wrong because it benefits you.

Its that mentality multiplied over the 300+ million of us Americans that is the problem.

I mean you had to actively seek out, do paperwork, etc. to get that $600/week. If its too much or wrong, you shouldn't have done it.

[cordrann]

What society needs most is for people to be able to survive without being wage slaves.... Do the people sitting at home suddenly not have rent and debt? What a foolish notion.

Let's do some math.

Worst case scenario (Mississippi):

400 + 235 = 635

635 / 40 = $15.87 hourly wage equivalent

Seems like an extra 400 dollars is more than enough.

[Felya]

Let's do some math.

Now... add the math of needing to buy shit to adjust for covid. Add the math of the possibility their previous job is not going back.

I would recommend taking that “bonus” money and using it to take an online course... get certified in something...

https://cert.eccouncil.org/certified...al-hacker.html

You do have to buy your own black trench coat, after you pass... no guarantees that it will grow your beard either...

[cordrann]

I don't think its ok that you tell us what is reasonable or right for a society all while doing something you think is wrong because it benefits you.

Its that mentality multiplied over the 300+ million of us Americans that is the problem.

I mean you had to actively seek out, do paperwork, etc. to get that $600/week. If its too much or wrong, you shouldn't have done it.

To be clear, I was never making any moral arguments in the first place. And we didn't cheat the system to get unemployment to be clear. I just think its objectively fucking stupid for our society to act like store workers and essential employees are heroes, and then turn around and pay them less than people on unemployment.

- - - Updated - - -

Now... add the math of needing to buy shit to adjust for covid. Add the math of the possibility their previous job is not going back.

I would recommend taking that “bonus” money and using it to take an online course... get certified in something...

https://cert.eccouncil.org/certified...al-hacker.html

You do have to buy your own black trench coat, after you pass... no guarantees that it will grow your beard either...

If you are staying home instead of going to work you should need less money to get by due to transportation costs alone. Masks and a bottle of hand sanitizer aren't going to offset that difference.

[Breccia]

CBC reports that Biden plans to immediately cancel the Keystone Pipeline.

Yeah, starting to see the weakness of relying on the E.O. yet? Hell, even Trump mentioned this in his campaign.

[Themius]

Let's do some math.

Worst case scenario (Mississippi):

400 + 235 = 635

635 / 40 = $15.87 hourly wage equivalent

Seems like an extra 400 dollars is more than enough.

Do unemployed people go into some weird stasis where they don't have needs such as housing and food?

- - - Updated - - -

To be clear, I was never making any moral arguments in the first place. And we didn't cheat the system to get unemployment to be clear. I just think its objectively fucking stupid for our society to act like store workers and essential employees are heroes, and then turn around and pay them less than people on unemployment.

- - - Updated - - -



If you are staying home instead of going to work you should need less money to get by due to transportation costs alone. Masks and a bottle of hand sanitizer aren't going to offset that difference.

Transporation... I am a believer in a public free transportation system funded by the state. So complaining about transportation... just seems silly. I mean... transportation is part of the thing that screws working people over due to how expensive it can be.

Using that as an example of why people should be paid less, and not an example of why we need affordable or free transportation paid for by taxes... is you missing the heart of the issue.

[Milchshake]

CBC reports that Biden plans to immediately cancel the Keystone Pipeline.

Yeah, starting to see the weakness of relying on the E.O. yet? Hell, even Trump mentioned this in his campaign.

Funny, who everything Biden is actually doing. Is totally the opposite of what twitter claims he is doing, by taking out of context clips.