Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[PACOX]

Good luck with that, chumps. More money wasted on lawyers to lose in court. While I'm not entirely behind Colorado's decision because the court cases are still ongoing, theirs actually has merit (not least because Trump is on tape actually committing crimes) whereas everything they're whining about is either not illegal or has absolutely no evidence to support it in the first place.

The way we've treated Presidents in the US, all the official and unofficial privileges that they are given, messes up this issue. Dare I say it was by design - it was a GOP backed resolution. The Colorado ruling might have held some merit if it was done a lot earlier when the legal ramifications (not that I have much faith Trump's SCOTUS) could be weighed. It definitely would have have stuck if post the Jan 6th related trials. We all know what he did but without official rulings he is still innocent and you can't just bar innocent people from ballots, definitely not under the argument that Colorado is using. It would absolutely open the door for dumb shit like what was linked in the story. Allow it in one place with actually legal ruling and you "have to" allow it nationwide.

SCOTUS has no choice to make a quick and dirty ruling siding with Trump for the sake of "not disturbing the democratic process". We know it's horseshit. His entire savings grace is the race-condition is having with the legal system, a race condition being an outcome that is determined whichever of two or more conditions reaches a point first.


Really Colorado of all places? As if Colorado was ever going red anyway. The GOP knows what it is doing.

[Breccia]

First of all, here's a video of Biden coming within one syllable of calling Trump a sick fuck during a conference.

Okay, that out of the way, I wanted to post this Economist article but then I instead decided to post this WaPo article instead. Both are on the same subject, Biden vs. Trump in terms of the economy, now that they both have 3 years and anything after this runs into

It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.

-- the quote that keeps on giving

So, I'm going to post a bunch of pictures here. Hope that's okay.















Now to be fair, there are 12 charts, I posted 7. Biden isn't doing 100% better than Trump on all accounts. For example, people feel that the economy is worse under Biden, than in Trump's recession, for...some reason. And let's be honest, both inflation and interest rates are higher. But overall, Biden is objectively taking a bite out of Republicans' usual strongest selling point. Trump ruined the country's economy, Biden is repairing the damage.

Of course, FOX News had a hard time explaining this. Just kidding. FOX News simply cherry-picked and lied by omission. But that video I just linked has multiple FOX News video clips and I'm taking a CNN point for each.

[Nymrohd]

The pandemic absolutely constitutes a structural break for any data involving the economy so comparing trends before and after the break is not valid analysis.
You can ofc argue against the way Trump handled the events that created a structural break in the data but again that is hard to do because the US itself doesn't really have peers; most peer economies are just much smaller (simply by virtue of population and land)

I am not saying I don't believe he fucked things up. Just saying that you are not going to get something conclusive with just graphs. Also most voters likely never took an econometrics class (or even know what the word means) so don't know what a structural break is.

[s_bushido]

The pandemic absolutely constitutes a structural break for any data involving the economy so comparing trends before and after the break is not valid analysis.

Yeah. Republican economic policies are usually a steaming pile of shit anyway, but the pandemic is/was such an outlier that it's going to be hard/impossible to get anything valuable out of the data around it. 2020 is always going to have a huge asterisk next to it in a lot of aspects.

But if you cut the giant spikes out of those graphs, the takeaway seems to be the Biden administration has mostly just continued whatever trends were in place during Trump's.

[Nymrohd]

Yeah. Republican economic policies are usually a steaming pile of shit anyway, but the pandemic is/was such an outlier that it's going to be hard/impossible to get anything valuable out of the data around it. 2020 is always going to have a huge asterisk next to it in a lot of aspects.

But if you cut the giant spikes out of those graphs, the takeaway seems to be the Biden administration has mostly just continued whatever trends were in place during Trump's.

I mean at best you could say that a mature and well diversified economy is just going to follow its existing trends and government action will only be a blip on how things go on given how conservative interventions to the economy are compared to its size.

[DarkTZeratul]

I mean at best you could say that a mature and well diversified economy is just going to follow its existing trends and government action will only be a blip on how things go on given how conservative interventions to the economy are compared to its size.

Mostly I just see this as a refutation of the Republicans' narrative that Biden has ruined the economy.

[Benggaul]

Mostly I just see this as a refutation of the Republicans' narrative that Biden has ruined the economy.

It's also a testament to the Biden administration that the economy overall got back on track so quickly after being beaten into submission over the course of a year. I'm not going to sit here and claim this administration is without fault--there have been several missteps and broken promises--but in this case they've done a lot of good in a relatively short amount of time. Yes, yes, "Capitalism!" and all that, but whether folks realize it or not this admin has helped them weather a brutal economical storm with comparatively small hardships.

[Rasulis]

Now to be fair, there are 12 charts, I posted 7. Biden isn't doing 100% better than Trump on all accounts. For example, people feel that the economy is worse under Biden, than in Trump's recession, for...some reason. And let's be honest, both inflation and interest rates are higher. But overall, Biden is objectively taking a bite out of Republicans' usual strongest selling point. Trump ruined the country's economy, Biden is repairing the damage.

The economy looks good on paper. In fact, for the ones that are already established - own homes & invested in the market - it is very good. I saw a study which showed that net worth for homeowners went up a lot.

However, if you are trying to buy your first home, the time has never been worst. The same with people that rent and have been living on the border of being homeless. The last two years have been downright horrible.

U.S. homelessness up 12 percent to highest reported level as rents soar and pandemic aid lapses

Not Biden's fault. But he is the President, so he got the flak.

[Paranoid Android]

Now to be fair, there are 12 charts, I posted 7. Biden isn't doing 100% better than Trump on all accounts. For example, people feel that the economy is worse under Biden, than in Trump's recession, for...some reason. And let's be honest, both inflation and interest rates are higher. But overall, Biden is objectively taking a bite out of Republicans' usual strongest selling point. Trump ruined the country's economy, Biden is repairing the damage.

Of course, FOX News had a hard time explaining this. Just kidding. FOX News simply cherry-picked and lied by omission. But that video I just linked has multiple FOX News video clips and I'm taking a CNN point for each.

In a way

My complicated take as always is that average American is hurting. No matter if you can get a job and wages slightly up. Americans still can't grasp why most of the inflation happened due to corporate greed and late stage capitalism on supply chain and monopolies.

For some reason like many things like military love, Republicans get a pass that they are some economic savior for some reason. Best of all we all joke that Republicans wreck the economy and Democrats repair it. At least over the past 30 years.

So after 2008 the economy was at the worst wreck and while we can say Obama should have done more the economy. My big critique here was Obama was the classical Neo-Lib and really just let the economy recover on its own, instead of Left leaning policies. If you remember Obama would get hammered on the economy and especially in 2012 was his biggest weakness going into the election.

We then all understand that Trump inherited a very strong economy and give this mofo credit like any grifter he took ALL the credit. Again, Obama was a wuss or just not as good as Obama. So COVID happened and economy tanked, but somehow not Trump's fault in the big picture. Biden got a mess and this is me but I still criticize him for not doing enough and left leaning or BIG Dem policies.

So we get this detachment of forget the 40 percent that just eat the slop, the 10-20 percent who say "I was better off when Trump was in office". It's just so hard to get to these people. I will still close out that Dems have done a pretty bad job, imo cause they generally just do Neo-Lib crap. A hands off approach where you can say they are lucky in many ways it course corrected without a recession.

[Breccia]

Not Biden's fault. But he is the President, so he got the flak.

That happens a lot, fairly and unfairly.

[arandomuser]

The economy looks good on paper. In fact, for the ones that are already established - own homes & invested in the market - it is very good. I saw a study which showed that net worth for homeowners went up a lot.

However, if you are trying to buy your first home, the time has never been worst. The same with people that rent and have been living on the border of being homeless. The last two years have been downright horrible.

U.S. homelessness up 12 percent to highest reported level as rents soar and pandemic aid lapses

Not Biden's fault. But he is the President, so he got the flak.

rents would fall so much if we got rid of alot of city level policies preventing apartments from being built, there is high demand and developers want to build but city councils and nimbys wont let them.

[Endus]

rents would fall so much if we got rid of alot of city level policies preventing apartments from being built, there is high demand and developers want to build but city councils and nimbys wont let them.

There's two aspects to that.

Developers generally want to build single-family homes. It's the biggest bang for the investment buck. Building tall costs more, and pays less in comparison. They're the ones largely pushing for suburban sprawl; city planners have no inherent reason to desire sprawl, since suburbs generally don't even pay for their servicing in property tax; the income's just too low to cover the low-density depth of service needed. Plus, suburbanites hate low-rise apartments, because they make nearby homes look cheaper.

Developers [i]do[i] like high-rises, however. And yes, those are a lot tighter-restricted in terms of planning, but that's because city planners are trying to encourage density, so they want those towers closer to city center, not a random tower in the middle of nowhere. There's generally no real opposition from City Council on that front; they want high-density housing in high-density zoning. These also tend to be higher-ticket apartments, though, so don't really address the root problems of lack of lower-cost housing.

It's a mess, but developers are the bigger issue, generally. They do NOT want to build affordable housing; it's hard to make a decent income off it. Usually, the city has to require a certain percentage of such to approve a new development plan, precisely because if they don't, it's all single-family homes.

[Surfd]

But if you cut the giant spikes out of those graphs, the takeaway seems to be the Biden administration has mostly just continued whatever trends were in place during Trump's.

With the added caveat that, having only been 1 term, most of the "trends" seen during the Trump administration was basically just them riding the momentum the Obama administration had spent the previous 8 years building.

[Nymrohd]

rents would fall so much if we got rid of alot of city level policies preventing apartments from being built, there is high demand and developers want to build but city councils and nimbys wont let them.

Would developers build what is needed or would they build what gives them the best margins though? What is needed is DIFFERENT city level policies, not the removal of basic planning regulations.
And there can be federal level policies that also help. Punitive taxation for holding land as an investment asset and significant limitations on short term rentals would both open the market by forcing a lot more property to be available for long term rentals.

- - - Updated - - -

With the added caveat that, having only been 1 term, most of the "trends" seen during the Trump administration was basically just them riding the momentum the Obama administration had spent the previous 8 years building.

That is one possible interpretation. The other is that the relatively conservative level of policy possible in US economic governance due to the constant need for consensus inherent in the political system means that politics only have a minor effect on the economy which largely moves according to how corporations and global events guide it.

[arandomuser]

Would developers build what is needed or would they build what gives them the best margins though? What is needed is DIFFERENT city level policies, not the removal of basic planning regulations.
And there can be federal level policies that also help. Punitive taxation for holding land as an investment asset and significant limitations on short term rentals would both open the market by forcing a lot more property to be available for long term rentals.

- - - Updated - - -



That is one possible interpretation. The other is that the relatively conservative level of policy possible in US economic governance due to the constant need for consensus inherent in the political system means that politics only have a minor effect on the economy which largely moves according to how corporations and global events guide it.

luxury high rises still help middle and low income because if wealthy people purchase those they wont then buy out middle class and low income properties which is whats happening, its unfortunate to say but texas is really beating us when it comes to that because they are more laiez faire in the housing market making them more affordable than cali

cali had an explosion of wealth ( good) but instead of building new housing for the influx of wealthier workers they bought out all the old houses=

[gondrin]

So, lets see. The GOP in various states want to get revenge because Colorado and Maine by taking Biden off of their ballots in some states. When asked what Biden has done to do that with specifics, they start to sound like Porky Pig not being able to get a word out.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...e73b7656&ei=59

'Give me some specifics': Missouri Republican unable to back up Biden allegation during testy interview

The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to review former President Donald Trump's challenge to a recent decision by the Colorado Supreme Court, which barred Trump from the state's presidential ballot based on Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution's 14th Amendment. Under Section 3, an "officer" who has engaged in "insurrection" is ineligible to run for certain government positions.

Some pro-Trump Republicans have been arguing that if Trump's foes can remove him from state ballots, the same thing can be done to President Joe Biden.

During a Monday, January 8 appearance on CNN, Missouri Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft — a far-right Republican — threatened to remove Biden from the state's ballot. And Ashcroft's conversation with CNN's Boris Sanchez grew testy when Sanchez challenged his argument for a possible Biden removal.

Sanchez asked Ashcroft, "What would then be your justification for removing Joe Biden from the ballot in Missouri? Has he engaged, in your mind, in some kind of insurrection?"

Ashcroft responded, "Um, there have been allegations that he's engaged in insurrection."

But Sanchez demanded specifics, telling the Missouri secretary of state, "You can't stay something like that and not back it up…. What did Joe Biden do, in your mind, that equates insurrection? What allegations are you taking about?"

Ashcroft, sounding frustrated, was unable to back up his claim, telling Sanchez, "I have, I have seen allegations from the lieutenant governor of Texas that has said that the Joe Biden has, uh, uh, been part of insurrection or rebellion."

Sanchez, however, demanded, "If you're going to make the claim, give me some specifics." And Ashcroft was unable to provide any.

[Captain N]

So, lets see. The GOP in various states want to get revenge because Colorado and Maine by taking Biden off of their ballots in some states. When asked what Biden has done to do that with specifics, they start to sound like Porky Pig not being able to get a word out.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...e73b7656&ei=59

To be fair that's Republican politicians and their followers in a nutshell. If you question why they are upset at Biden or really any Democrat they'll go off on some weird tangent completely unrelated to the topic or lie outright.

[Edge-]

So, lets see. The GOP in various states want to get revenge because Colorado and Maine by taking Biden off of their ballots in some states. When asked what Biden has done to do that with specifics, they start to sound like Porky Pig not being able to get a word out.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...e73b7656&ei=59

Honestly one of the most infuriating interviews/exchanges to watch. There are tens of millions of Americans with zero legal training or education that are more qualified to be Secretary of State of Missouri than that individual with lukewarm IQ.

This is why we moved away from single-core processors and to multi-core, multi-threaded chips and shit. You can literally see this man struggling to process in real time because he's still rocking a single compute core in the 'ol brainbox.

[Rasulis]

luxury high rises still help middle and low income because if wealthy people purchase those they wont then buy out middle class and low income properties which is whats happening, its unfortunate to say but texas is really beating us when it comes to that because they are more laiez faire in the housing market making them more affordable than cali

cali had an explosion of wealth ( good) but instead of building new housing for the influx of wealthier workers they bought out all the old houses=

Even Texas is not keeping up. After decades of seeing the state homeless number went down, it went up by 13% in 2021 & 2022. The same with Florida. Homelessness in Florida went down 30% between 2008 and 2020, then shot up almost 18% in 2021 and 2022. Both were over the nation's average of 12%. California saw 5% increase during the same time period.

I have mixed feelings about high-rise apartments. I would not want to live in one. Apparently, a lot of people felt the same way. I use the picture of San Francisco below to illustrate. The high-rise side is experiencing a decline. Lots of empty apartments and condos. Office occupancy of 36%. Storefronts and malls closing. Light foot traffic. On weekends, it felt abandoned. The 3 - 4 story side is booming. Buyers are fighting for homes. Office space vacancy of 2% or less. Heavy foot traffic all time of the day and seven days a week. Businesses are thriving. Stonestown Galleria is the only mall in San Francisco that is prospering and expanding. The food court is a foodie heaven. It has Marugame Udon, Gram Cafe, Yifang Taiwan Fruit Tea and Kura Revolving Sushi Bar. Many Asian chain restaurants that you don't see in other malls across the US. No Olive Garden. No Macy's. However, lots and lots of restaurants. People actually go to the mall not to shop, but to eat. At least we do.

[Elegiac]

The pandemic absolutely constitutes a structural break for any data involving the economy so comparing trends before and after the break is not valid analysis.
You can ofc argue against the way Trump handled the events that created a structural break in the data but again that is hard to do because the US itself doesn't really have peers; most peer economies are just much smaller (simply by virtue of population and land)

I am not saying I don't believe he fucked things up. Just saying that you are not going to get something conclusive with just graphs. Also most voters likely never took an econometrics class (or even know what the word means) so don't know what a structural break is.

I also wanna point out that there’s a not insignificant possibility that a lot of the jobs data is, you know, fake - given the increasing problem of fraudulent job listings.

And there’s the fact that either way you spin it the economy is still hella anemic. Wealth inequality and monopolization of the market are still rising while the cost of living continues to increase.

Things are not going to make any permanent improvement until a few heads come off, fiscally speaking.