Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[sandstill]

I'm attacking the veracity of a claim of sexual misconduct that was given its consideration and failed to hold up to scrutiny - unlike the accusations against Trump.

Trump isn't in jail for sexual misconduct so I don't see any difference.

From a mainstream rational perspective both are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

You could take an alternative opinion and suggest that in America, rich people buy justice, and Trump is actually guilty. That point of view has some merit. But the same is true of Biden. Either way your viewpoint isn't logically consistent.

[Felya]

Trump isn't in jail for sexual misconduct so I don't see any difference.

Trump has 26 accusers, many of whom he paid off. During the last 4 years, two more women accused him, whom Trump called ugly liars and then the death threats began. Causing both cases to be put on hold... but, the rape case in which Barr is trying to make America liable for Trump’s rape, is literally ongoing. They are trying to block her DNA evidence, while also absolving Trump of liability, by making America the defendant instead of Trump... they were denied, but Barr dropped an appeal last week. Soooo..... why are you defending a serial assaulter?

From a mainstream rational perspective both are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Unless Trump signs NDAs, then we can safely assume he did that shit. Unlike court, you can’t directly by public opinion. Just another rich guy that can afford to pay off his victims... and the simps that defend them... ooh... solid soap title...

You could take an alternative opinion and suggest that in America, rich people buy justice, and Trump is actually guilty. That point of view has some merit. But the same is true of Biden. Either way your viewpoint isn't logically consistent.

No, Biden sponsored the violence against women act. Biden sponsored the act that allocated billions to victims of powerful men like Trump and him self. Biden did the opposite of paying women off... he sponsored an act that provided women money to persecute, not to drop.

Oh and GOP has been blocking its renewal since March 2019.

Edit: Watching people attack mr Rogers with character concerns is hilarious...

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I'm not claiming biden has dementia, I've mostly tried to focus on him not actually committing to any substantive change, which is subjective i would have thought andGiving more money to cops shit that he has said he wants to do.

Carbon neutral by 2026, student loan forgiveness, pandemic response team, a public option, return to Paris accord and Iran peace treaty. These are not substantive? Are you sure?

Yes, bringing back the Justice Reform that Obama put in place and provide funding for training, as well as scrutiny. Are you saying defund the police means no more cops?

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Oh, so you're going to push the cases which have even less merit than the Reade one appeared to have?

You think it will ever occur to these people, that claiming Reade is the same as Trump’s 26 accusers, including an active case with DNA evidence of rape and Trump’s obvious flippant attitude towards assaulting women... Is providing cover for Trump? You think it will ever make sense that saying Biden releasing all records and never insulting Reade, is the same as Trump keeping his records hidden and going on insulting rants about these women, is only helping Trump?

Edit: And Trump lost... on January 20th, they no longer defend a political side... But, just a billionaire corporate owner. Bizarre...

[Felya]

No they arent, student loan forgiveness has already been dialed back and most of that is just getting stuff back to normal, rereading lost ground isnt exactly progress. Like literally going back to the way things were during Obama's administration is not enough.

What are you talking about dialed back? 500k in loan forgiveness. Going carbon neutral is not just back to normal. Public option is not back to normal. Tax increase on those making over 400k, is not back to normal. What the fuck are you talking about?

Do you think it will occur to you that nobody is claiming that they're the exact same? Disturbing behaviour. Are you saying I'm defending a billionaire?

Yes, you are defending a billionaire, by claiming that his ongoing rape trial, is the same as a man that sponsored a bill that funded women accusing billionaires. Don’t mistake me saying it’s willful... I’m 100% sure you are not realizing it... equal percentage that you ignored my explaining why... those go hand in hand.

[JohnBrown1917]

Now that Trump lost, what happend to the excuse of Biden being the lesser evil that needed to be defended because of horrid Trump was? He lost, that part is over.

[Felya]

Now that Trump lost, what happend to the excuse of Biden being the lesser evil that needed to be defended because of horrid Trump was? He lost, that part is over.

Trump is in office until January 20th... there is no excuse needed... Biden can’t do anything... it’s a silly question.

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Normal by like the rest of the world standards. Isnt it 10k on student loans?

How about you look it up? I know I got it wrong... but, I want you to look it up, so you can learn something. It’s not 10k either...

I've never made that claim though?

No, you are not realizing that you are making the claim... I covered that...

[Felya]

You guys do know that there is someone actively attacking workers rights, civil rights, expanding military complex by selling more arms, and is actively defunding social security? His name isn’t Biden...

Do you care or is this just shitting on Biden, before he can do anything to prove you wrong?

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How on earth did I make that claim spell it out for me.

Sure:

Trump has 26 accusers, many of whom he paid off. During the last 4 years, two more women accused him, whom Trump called ugly liars and then the death threats began. Causing both cases to be put on hold... but, the rape case in which Barr is trying to make America liable for Trump’s rape, is literally ongoing. They are trying to block her DNA evidence, while also absolving Trump of liability, by making America the defendant instead of Trump... they were denied, but Barr dropped an appeal last week. Soooo..... why are you defending a serial assaulter?

What does Biden need to do, to not be associated with a serial assaulter?

[Felya]

Remind me how long he has left as president? Orange man bad is a given, we've literally dunked on him together, is your memory actually that bad?

Remind me how long people will suffer due to Trump’s current action, versus Biden’s current action? It’s a given though... noice...

When does Biden get this grace period? It’s not before his term started... will it be during or only at the end? Isn’t he supposed to die any day now, so in a sense, shouldn’t we give him a pass because he will be gone soon anyway? What sort of timed logic for your ideology is this?

[Felya]

Sorry how does any of that have to do with what I've said? This is just blatantly dishonest.

Oh you get it... you would have answered my question if you didn’t...

A long time if biden doesnt actually do something, piecemeal stuff isnt going to work, wealth needs to be redistributed much more effectively that just a newer high tax bracket and some debt forgiveness.

What? Biden is not president. He can’t do anything right now.

Please explain your more effective way... lol

By the way... this is your answer to how long people will suffer due to Trump’s current action...

Public infrastructure is pretty dire too. But you're right cops need more money, they dont have anything they could sell.

That’s not an answer to my question... what are they going to sell and to whom?

[Endus]

Biden has multiple accusations and no sincere apologies for actual recorded behaviour. Maybe he needs to start with that if he wants to distance himself from that stuff.

By framing it this way, you're choosing to vastly inflate the severity of what those accusations amounted to. Because the only accusation that went beyond "he was a bit too much in my personal space and it made me uncomfortable for a moment" was Tara Reade's, and her account hasn't held up to scrutiny.

Equating personal-space issues with actual sexual assault claims is . . . not reasonable in the least. That's why people take issue with the false equivalence you're at least implying, in your phrasing.

Also, the "no sincere apologies" is a pretty garbage position, since you tacitly admit he's apologized, and it's only your personal opinion that he wasn't sincere about it.

Biden can propose policy and assign his cabinet? That's not nothing. None of what he has said indicates an earnest intention to root out the rot, just placate it and as many liberals and soc dems as they can

I dunno they have military grade hardware, there are militaries. You do the math. You're not going to achieve shit if the cops are a domestic military. The point isnt about actually funding the cops before you freak out.

The biggest problems with police overreach can't be handled at the federal level. It isn't the FBI, largely. It's State and municipal police. Federal legislation trying to take control over State policing will likely be argued to be unconstitutional per the 10th Amendment. The federal government can give recommendations and guidance, but not a lot else, not without risking major lawsuits and challenges.

Note that I'm not arguing this isn't a massive problem. I'm disputing the feasibility of federal response. In an ideal world, the federal government could force this stuff through regardless, and it may be worth the attempt despite the challenges, but acting as if it's just a matter of a quick policy decision is . . . inaccurate.

[Orange Joe]

Uh take a look at what you're doing right now?

You're attacking the veracity of a claim of sexual misconduct from a purely speculative position. Look. At. Yourself.

But yeah I am the bad guy for being disillusioned by all of this.

How are you any better? You never had a problem with ALL the sexual assault claims against Trump. All 26 of them. Now that Biden won you are upset that people don't take Bidens 1 Let me repeat 1 claim. And you think people are going to take your viewpoint seriously?

[Felya]

A Park ranger job is far easier to get at a Community College

Can’t make this shit up, if I tried:

‘Worst work in the world': US park rangers grapple with tide of human waste
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ts-human-waste

[Endus]

I'm not the one who did that I called him a sex pest, which given the accounts of his behaviour isnt inaccurate. either that or you have a much higher tolerance for creepy shit than I do.

https://www.lexico.com/definition/sex_pest
"A person who sexually harasses or assaults another person."

I do not remotely agree that anything Biden has been seen to have done (edit: I'm excluding Tara Reade's accusations because, as I said above, they've not held up under scrutiny) could be construed as either sexual harassment or sexual assault. So no; calling him a "sex pest" is inflammatory defamation that has no basis in fact.

That's the problem with your account. If you'd stuck with calling him "creepy uncle Joe" or something, maybe people wouldn't have an issue with that, but you've stepped beyond that to imply he's acted unlawfully. That your assessment was somehow an objective truth, rather than just your personal distaste for him.

"I'm sorry this happened to you" isnt a real apology cmon.

Except that, y'know, it is. You don't want to accept that apology, even though it isn't aimed at you, but that doesn't make it a non-apology.

", but acting as if it's just a matter of a quick policy decision is . . . inaccurate"

Is not what I'm doing. It's the lack of interest that has got my goat.

If you agree that there isn't legal grounds for a rapid Federal response to the issue of police brutality, because it's largely a State responsibility and interfering would risk 10th Amendment challenges, then what "interest" are you expecting to see? That Biden and his team talk a lot about an issue they have little to no means of actually, productively working against?

[Orange Joe]

What? I had huge problems with trumps crimes wtf.

The are numerous women who have said biden has been inappropriate with them, it's not good. Certainly not nearly as bad as trump, that's obvious.

lol.....

Lucy Flores alleged in March 2019 that Biden grasped her shoulders from behind and kissed the back of her head without her consent during a campaign event in 2014.

Oh god... the horror...

Ally Coll, a former Democratic staffer, told The Washington Post in April 2019 that when she met Biden in 2008, he complimented her smile, squeezed her shoulders, and held her "for a beat too long."

The nightmares she must have....

Sofie Karasek, a progressive organizer, was photographed holding hands and touching foreheads with Biden at the 2016 Academy Awards. Karasek said she felt Biden violated her personal space in that interaction.

......


Want me to go on?

[JohnBrown1917]

What? I had huge problems with trumps crimes wtf.

The are numerous women who have said biden has been inappropriate with them, it's not good. Certainly not nearly as bad as trump, that's obvious.

Like what on earth indicates I'm remotely okay with what trump is doing?

Your just talking to a wall, a lot of posters here believe being critical of Biden somehow means you where never critical of Trump's (worse) bullshit.

[Orange Joe]

That is compeltely inappropriate behaviour why are you trying to excuse it? Again because apparently I need to say this every 2 seconds or I supprt trump, but obviously it's not as bad as trump

Inappropriate how? What law did he break? Did any of the women tell him to back the fuck off when it happened?

[Endus]

lol.....

Oh god... the horror...

The nightmares she must have....
......

Want me to go on?

Here's my central issue with these things;

I don't see a sexual component. At all. These are things my family can and does do with each other. My mother will sneak up behind me, grab my shoulders, and kiss my head (if I'm sitting down; I'm way taller than her). My dad will squeeze my shoulders. Etc.

Outside of a family or friend relationship, these things are probably too emotionally intimate (probably not the right adjective, but I'm trying to distinguish from sexual intimacies), but there's nothing salacious there. It basically boils down to "Joe is too familial with strangers". Okay? It's not great you felt uncomfortable, but let's stop equating this with sexual assaults.

[Orange Joe]

I feel like if I need to explain how the first one is inappropriate you're a lost cause.

Or is it because you can't? Yes. I need to know how kissing someone on the back of the head is inappropriate.

[Orange Joe]

Here's my central issue with these things;

I don't see a sexual component. At all. These are things my family can and does do with each other. My mother will sneak up behind me, grab my shoulders, and kiss my head (if I'm sitting down; I'm way taller than her). My dad will squeeze my shoulders. Etc.

Outside of a family or friend relationship, these things are probably too emotionally intimate (probably not the right adjective, but I'm trying to distinguish from sexual intimacies), but there's nothing salacious there. It basically boils down to "Joe is too familial with strangers". Okay? It's not great you felt uncomfortable, but let's stop equating this with sexual assaults.

I'd be right there with him if even one of these claims actually came close to some kind of sexual assault. Kissing someones hair is not even close.

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Yikes.

Ah so you can't. Got it

[Endus]

Yikes.

Are you suggesting my mother kissing the back of my head when she walks by means she's being a "sex pest" with me?

Seriously, I have to wonder where the hell you're getting the idea that "any physical contact" is construed as wildly inappropriate.

[Endus]

Is joe biden this womans mother?

Nope.

That's why I said he was being too familial. You are the one who's arguing that such contact means he's a "sex pest", meaning you saw it as sexual harassment.

So I'll repeat; is my mom sexually harassing me when she kisses me on the back of my head? Or were you being unreasonably alarmist to equate such an action with sexual impropriety? Not everything has to be sexual in nature, and it's pretty fuckin' weird that you can't see any other possibilities.