Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

And yet he did it anyway? he pulled the trigger, he owns it.

Man, of course Trump folks would be more than happy to break signed agreements and show to the world that they can't be trusted.

[BlackDruid96]

Trump pulled the trigger, he literally signed the agreement.
.

Literally no one is blaming Trump from the Afghan pull out except for people on these forums, Biden could have not puled troops out and he did, he owns it, end of story this isn't a fact you can change.

[Edge-]

Biden could have not puled troops out and he did, he owns it, end of story this isn't a fact you can change.

Again, just because Trump supporters are fine broadcasting that they cannot, and should not, be trusted doesn't mean that's a good strategy for a government to take.

[Endus]

Literally no one is blaming Trump from the Afghan pull out except for people on these forums, Biden could have not puled troops out and he did, he owns it, end of story this isn't a fact you can change.

The only people making that argument are far-right ideologues who are willing to lie about everything because they have no capacity to take any responsibility for anything themselves.

Trump is the one who signed off on the agreement to pull out of Afghanistan, setting the timeline. Fact.
Trump is the one who was making appeasement efforts towards the Taliban. Fact.
Biden could only have refused to pull out by breaking an international agreement, which he was obliged to follow, thanks to his predecessor. Refusing to abide by it would have created significant diplomatic fallout, demonstrating that the USA would not stay true to its word. Fact.

What you're talking about isn't a "fact" at all. It's an empty lie.

Hell, trivially, you said "no one is blaming Trump except people on these forums", and that's just an obvious and easily-debunked lie;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...wal-criticism/
https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/20...huck-ardo.html
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...en-afghanistan
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/trump-...stuck-n1279378
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-trump-taliban

So take your willful and intentional disinformation bullshit and stuff it.

[akris15]

Literally no one is blaming Trump from the Afghan pull out except for people on these forums, Biden could have not puled troops out and he did, he owns it, end of story this isn't a fact you can change.

Leave it to the Trumper to not know how statecraft works because the current state of US softpower is at its weakest it ever has been due to Trump and is barely starting to recover (but trust takes time). Just because Trump disregards previous agreements doesn't mean its a good strategy, in fact removing the US from the Obama Iran deal pretty much killed off all of our softpower and now we still can't even get a seat at the table for negotiations and arbitration between countries (which China doesn't mind they took our role from us because of Trump).

A great example is when Boeing was having issues with their MAX 747s and the international response. There is an unwritten rule in statecraft is you don't fuck over another country's main industries, which for the USA one of its main industries is airplane production. Normally the world would follow the FAA and their guidance and go through each countries consulates to work with the issue but because Trump pretty much killed our state department and nobody could trust the USA at this point they started to do their own thing which did major damage to the industry for the USA which they are still trying to recover from.

Trust, especially in diplomacy, is hard to earn and even harder to keep. You can't just throw out the previous administration's agreements because if it becomes a trend then nobody will want to sign agreements with you which in the long run will hurt trade. A lot of the economic issues we are having right now too is because nobody wants to reach out to the USA to work on any agreements during these supply chain issues because they don't trust the USA, especially with Trump still politically hanging around as they don't want to sign an agreement, Trump come in 3 years later and axe their agreement.

[Machismo]

He had plans for the helpful nationals. Trump's plan was to sabotage their visas so they had no chance of getting out.

Precisely. Trump had no desire to let them out.

[draynay]

Literally no one is blaming Trump

Is this one of those modern usages of "literally" where it means the opposite?

[Edge-]

Is this one of those modern usages of "literally" where it means the opposite?

It was updated a few years back so it means both "literally" and "figuratively", but neither definition seems to work in this point.

[Machismo]

Literally no one is blaming Trump from the Afghan pull out except for people on these forums, Biden could have not puled troops out and he did, he owns it, end of story this isn't a fact you can change.

Then you are not paying attention.

Trump and his fellow white supremacists in charge of immigration deliberately delayed visas for Afghani nationals who aided Americans.

The facts really don't care about your misinformation.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1906190.html

Do you know who has been blaming Trump? All the people who have been trying to help get Afghani nationals out of the country for several years, in order to protect them and their families from being murdered by the fucking Taliban.

[Beefhammer]

Literally no one is blaming Trump from the Afghan pull out except for people on these forums, Biden could have not puled troops out and he did, he owns it, end of story this isn't a fact you can change.

Oh look, somone who hasn't paid attention to reality trying to chime in like an expert.

[Edge-]

Oh look, somone who hasn't paid attention to reality trying to chime in like an expert.

They're proud of their ignorance, while also 100% self confident in their correctness.

[BlackDruid96]

The only people making that argument are far-right ideologues who are willing to lie about everything because they have no capacity to take any responsibility for anything themselves.

Trump is the one who signed off on the agreement to pull out of Afghanistan, setting the timeline. Fact.
Trump is the one who was making appeasement efforts towards the Taliban. Fact.
Biden could only have refused to pull out by breaking an international agreement, which he was obliged to follow, thanks to his predecessor. Refusing to abide by it would have created significant diplomatic fallout, demonstrating that the USA would not stay true to its word. Fact.

What you're talking about isn't a "fact" at all. It's an empty lie.

Hell, trivially, you said "no one is blaming Trump except people on these forums", and that's just an obvious and easily-debunked lie;

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...wal-criticism/
https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/20...huck-ardo.html
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...en-afghanistan
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/trump-...stuck-n1279378
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...-trump-taliban

So take your willful and intentional disinformation bullshit and stuff it.

Your opinion links fail to mention Biden was President and he is the one who pulled the trigger to get out of Afghanistan, he's at fault for this mess, not Trump. If Trump had been President during the pull out then I would be blaming Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...001/?gnt-cfr=1

[Edge-]

Your opinion links fail to mention Biden was President and he is the one who pulled the trigger to get out of Afghanistan, he's at fault for this mess, not Trump. If Trump had been President during the pull out then I would be blaming Trump

Again, just because y'all are happy to broadcast that you (the Trump cult) will not abide by agreements and are not, and should not, be trusted doesn't mean that's a good thing.

Also, nice rejection of evidence. If you close your eyes and cover your ears you can never be proven wrong.

[DarkTZeratul]

Your opinion links fail to mention Biden was President and he is the one who pulled the trigger to get out of Afghanistan, he's at fault for this mess, not Trump. If Trump had been President during the pull out then I would be blaming Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...001/?gnt-cfr=1

He was the president who set the pull-out agreement and then utterly failed to concoct any plan at all to actually make it happen. That the deadline Trump set happened to not be until Biden's term started doesn't absolve him of responsibility for the steaming mess he dumped in his successor's lap.

[Machismo]

Your opinion links fail to mention Biden was President and he is the one who pulled the trigger to get out of Afghanistan, he's at fault for this mess, not Trump. If Trump had been President during the pull out then I would be blaming Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...001/?gnt-cfr=1

You are ignoring reality.

Who was it that went out of his way to not let Afghanis get visas to escape the Taliban?

[BlackDruid96]

He was the president who set the pull-out agreement and then utterly failed to concoct any plan at all to actually make it happen. That the deadline Trump set happened to not be until Biden's term started doesn't absolve him of responsibility for the steaming mess he dumped in his successor's lap.

Trump wanted to pull out and his advisers was against it, he never did it. Just because it started out as Trumps idea doesn't leave Biden blameless for actually doing it and in a terrible way. If Trump was still President then he might have been the one to pull out and the mess would be on his hands, but he lost and this happened under Biden not Trump.

[Machismo]

Trump wanted to pull out and his advisers was against it, he never did it. Just because it started out as Trumps idea doesn't leave Biden blameless for actually doing it and in a terrible way. If Trump was still President then he might have been the one to pull out and the mess would be on his hands, but he lost and this happened under Biden not Trump.

Trump signed the agreement. Stop trying to blame his advisors. He literally set the fucking timeline.

Why do you keep ignoring that Trump and his fellow white supremacists spent years preventing visas for Afghanis from going trough?

[Machismo]

This just reads as someone wilfully keeping themselves in the dark on the realities of the situation so that they can continue to blame "the other side." Quite sad.

If not, I'm not sure how hard "Trump signed an agreement, Biden carried out Trump's agreement because international agreements are meant to be kept so that you don't look like a nation that can't be trusted" is to understand.

I don't think for a second people like that are actually in the dark. I think every bit of it is deliberate misinformation.

[Endus]

Your opinion links fail to mention Biden was President and he is the one who pulled the trigger to get out of Afghanistan, he's at fault for this mess, not Trump. If Trump had been President during the pull out then I would be blaming Trump

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...001/?gnt-cfr=1

He literally did not "pull the trigger". That was Trump, signing off on the withdrawal in Feb 29, 2020; https://www.state.gov/wp-content/upl...n-02.29.20.pdf

Like I said; you're lying about really basic shit.

- - - Updated - - -

Trump wanted to pull out and his advisers was against it, he never did it.

See above link to the Feb 2020 agreement signed with the Taliban to withdraw all troops.

Who was President in Feb 2020, again?

[Edge-]

Trump wanted to pull out and his advisers was against it, he never did it. Just because it started out as Trumps idea doesn't leave Biden blameless for actually doing it and in a terrible way. If Trump was still President then he might have been the one to pull out and the mess would be on his hands, but he lost and this happened under Biden not Trump.

I see you're still not addressing that Trump made a deal that the US was obligated to uphold.

Why is it that Trump supporters are so fine with broadcasting that they think that being untrustworthy is a virtue?