Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Ivanstone]

I think that's what I would have expected in the past, but it's pretty clear at this point that there are quite a few people that are absolutely obsessed with American politics, even though they can't directly participate. I used to think that was pretty weird, but I've gotten pretty accustomed to people that don't have an obvious reason for interest being absolutely obsessed with American politics.

There’s a couple reasons why it’s ok to be obsessed with American politics:
1 - They’re still the most powerful nation on Earth. Their actions will have a strong effect on others. Especially if they’re a neighbour. Canadian politics have gotten dumber over the years in part due to American influence.
2 - American politics are a lot funnier. Cartoonishly stupid people get regularly elected to office in the US and it’s been happening long before Trump was elected.

[Milchshake]

LoL at shitty Voltron getting into position for 2024.
i cAnt VOtE For BIDeN BECAUse:

• tUT tUT, i didnT Say I woULd vOte FoR trUmp. But i wIll DO EVeRytHinG to DiSpAriAgE And CASt douBT ON bIDeN.
• hoW dARe bIden bE A CoNCErned fAtHEr. kIdS arE Just pROps FoR My shItTy pOLICieS And forum rAnts.
• dems aRE corRUpTIng MUH Kids. iM TOtalLy Not proJECTING hERE as i tRy TO uSe WiNg-nuT ScHOOlinG tO iNdoCTronate my owN kiDS.
• BidEN CANT rUN ON just BeIng thE ANTI-TrUmP.
• AS AN inSuLAtEd UPpeR ClasS WHiTe PERSON, BiDEn HaS NOT EARNeD my vOtE.
• i Do mY oWN REsEarcH.
• I CaNT loSe If I IGNORe eVeRYoNE.

I dunno if i can even satire conservative posters anymore. All of the chatGP is just way worse than I can do.

[postman1782]

Personally, I'm astounded at just how ethical Joe is. Personally, if someone gave my kid millions of dollars for nothing much, I'd at least have some thoughts on the matter, I might even be glad that my kid had received millions of dollars. Maybe I could keep that separate from any dealings I have with whoever is paying him, but I doubt that I would be able to so fully compartmentalize that it isn't even the tiniest bit relevant. I'll strive to achieve Joe's level of detachment and impartiality with regard to my dealings in the future, because it truly is amazing.

There isn't even evidence that Hunter got millions though. He got paid a salary, thats about it.

- - - Updated - - -

You know what's kinda weird? I actually haven't been offered any 7-figure bribes, which would kinda be the necessary start for me to be "projecting".

Neither has Joe nor Hunter. Trump has though, so has Rudy Guiliani.

- - - Updated - - -

What do you think, would you notice if someone gave one of them a few million dollars, or probably not?

Again, there is no evidence this happened.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think I'm being defensive. You're one of the guys that I think is honest and forthright. For the sake of clarity on the relevant players:

- Hunter is obviously corrupt and I think it's ridiculous that anyone would even suggest otherwise. At a minimum, he collected large amounts of money in exchange for the perception that he would influence his father.

- Joe may or may not be guilty of anything beyond willful indifference to his failson doing shady things. I don't know and suspect that I will never know. The appearance is quite bad and I would strongly prefer that Presidents discourage their family members from creating an appearance of impropriety.

- Kushner is deeply corrupt and was raised to power by his nepotistic relationship with Trump.

- Trump deliberately engaged in nepotism to benefit Kushner and other family members. This is sufficiently bad that there should probably be future legislation against it.

You don't have ANY EVIDENCE that Hunter or Joe is corrupt, so you are making shit up.

[Endus]

I don't think I'm being defensive. You're one of the guys that I think is honest and forthright. For the sake of clarity on the relevant players:

- Hunter is obviously corrupt and I think it's ridiculous that anyone would even suggest otherwise. At a minimum, he collected large amounts of money in exchange for the perception that he would influence his father.

That's not "corruption" at all, just common business practice. "Corruption" would require he actually attempt to unethically abuse his relationship.

- Joe may or may not be guilty of anything beyond willful indifference to his failson doing shady things. I don't know and suspect that I will never know. The appearance is quite bad and I would strongly prefer that Presidents discourage their family members from creating an appearance of impropriety.

So, nothing. You have literally nothing.

- Kushner is deeply corrupt and was raised to power by his nepotistic relationship with Trump.

The corruption there was using the office of President to empower and enrich Trumps family. Theres no similarity there to the Bidens.

- Trump deliberately engaged in nepotism to benefit Kushner and other family members. This is sufficiently bad that there should probably be future legislation against it.

Sure. WTF does this have to do with the Bidens, who've done nothing remotely similar?

[Cthulhu 2020]

I think you'll find that my posting frequency has generally dropped in recent years. Back in 2010, I was attracted to the site for Warlock and Warlock-adjacent topics. Somewhere along the lines, the OT forums became the primary reason I came back, and they really did used to be a pretty stellar place for banter. Somewhere along the lines, the evaporative cooling of the political environment resulted in degradation to threads that read like a ActBlue forum with a touch of European flavor added and my desire to interact with it dropped quite a bit. What's the point in piling on to a thread that has no meaningful conversation?

Nonetheless, let's see what I've said about Trump and corruption during that era. Here's a post:

I don't suppose I've changed that position much in the last six years and don't suppose I'll have much occasion to do so going forward.

"MMOC has turned into a liberal hellhole" is certainly a take when the majority of our conservative posters who once engaged in conversation pre 2016 were perma banned for threatening violence, or left because they couldn't stop getting banned for conspiracy posting or non stop insults against other posters. I suppose this place sort of has turned into thinkblue, if only because reality has a liberal bias.

If anything, Trump era conservatives are what created such an environment. I'm sure even you noticed a dramatic swing in just how vitriolic political discourse became around 2016. If I was a conservative, I'd be doing my best to oust the crazies from the party. But I realize the level headed ones that don't fall prey to conspiracies and cult personality are in the vast minority.

I do find it hilarious that you're on the bandwagon of "Hunter and Joe talking on the telephone is clear evidence of corrupt dealings". You're going to need more than that for this to be some kind of slam dunk, kiddo.

[Breccia]

Today, in this day in history, President Joe Biden was not indicted on any charges.

[Edge-]

Today, in this day in history, President Joe Biden was not indicted on any charges.

Clearly, this is PROOF of a coverup.

Or maybe the man isn't a walking one-man crime family, despite consistent Republican claims otherwise.

[tehdang]

Biden Spoke With Son’s Associates, but Not About Business, Former Partner Says

Republicans accused the president of lying, while Democrats said the testimony of Devon Archer, who worked with Hunter Biden, showed that his son was selling the illusion of access to his father.

Try harder.

The spin was one of the things that interested me about this story. Getting your dad on the phone when you're meeting with your business partners is already proving access. Compare with, say, dad knows his son is trading on his name and promising access to foreign energy companies, so dad decides to stop talking with his son's business associates or meeting them.

You know what’s worse than a son attempting to peddle influence off of his father’s name without the father knowing, as with Biden?

A son actually gaining influence off his father’s name, with his father actively installing him into positions he’s wildly unqualified to fill.

You know, as with trump.

If your only digs are “see? It could be interpreted that (a) Biden is almost as bad as trump!” you’re not making a compelling argument.

You don't have to change your opinion on what's worse between Biden and Trump corruption scandals (or alleged corruption if you prefer it) to state and explain your actual opinion on this current event.

These dealings also allegedly peaked when ... Biden was out of office. So when trading on his name had a lot less value.

Conservatives always be projecting.

The millions earned by Hunter in between Joe's stints in public office do inspire questions on whether it kept going, when it started, and if it ever ended. Along with how separate Joe kept himself from his son's selling of the Biden brand. The good news is that these questions are actively being investigated.

Boy, golly, I don't know. I'm sure it's nothing. He's just the kind of guy that's so ethical that he makes sure to keep his distance when his corrupt kid calls him from a business meeting. That's the story, right? That Hunter is in a meeting with someone paying him for the appearance of influence, calls Joe up, and just kind of does a quick chat to assure the payor that he can, in fact, reach his dad?

Yeah, I'm with you guys, this is basically nothing.

The best case scenario when all the dust settles is that Joe emerges just being seen as behaving recklessly when he knew better. And even add in the touchy-feely articles about the son's struggles with drug addiction and Hunter's status as last living kid. I don't see people settling on Joe Biden chatting with his son's business partners just because they have abnormally riveting perspectives on the weather.

Joe Biden pledged to acknowledge his 7th granddaughter a few weeks after Maureen Dowd wrote her column "It's Seven Grandkids, Mr. President." Perhaps she better start crafting another called, "You weren't just calling Hunter to chat about the weather, Mr. President" or "Hunter didn't purchase the burner phones for the weather apps, Mr. President."

[Endus]

The spin was one of the things that interested me about this story. Getting your dad on the phone when you're meeting with your business partners is already proving access. Compare with, say, dad knows his son is trading on his name and promising access to foreign energy companies, so dad decides to stop talking with his son's business associates or meeting them.

"Son is still in contact with and regularly talks to his father" isn't the enormous revelation you people think it is.

If anything, you're just projecting how utterly toxic your own family lives must be if you think this shit's unusual in any way.

The only people "spinning" this is you folks, who're so utterly desperate to slander Biden you'll make shit up to pretend this is in any respect a problem. Utterly imaginary "problems".

You don't have to change your opinion on what's worse between Biden and Trump corruption scandals (or alleged corruption if you prefer it) to state and explain your actual opinion on this current event.

It isn't a matter of who's "worse". Only one family did anything unethical. There isn't a whisper of unethical conduct by Joe Biden. You folks are literally just making shit up.

The millions earned by Hunter in between Joe's stints in public office do inspire questions on whether it kept going, when it started, and if it ever ended.

No, it doesn't. That income was completely normal for the positions Hunter was in, which he was fully qualified for. Again; pretending otherwise involves you folks making shit up.

The best case scenario when all the dust settles is that Joe emerges just being seen as behaving recklessly when he knew better.

There isn't even a whisper of unethical conduct, here. There was no "reckless behaviour". You're just flagrantly making shit up.

Just complete dishonesty and an unwillingness to deal with reality. That's all you folks have.

[Edge-]

No, it doesn't. That income was completely normal for the positions Hunter was in, which he was fully qualified for. Again; pretending otherwise involves you folks making shit up.

Nobody hates capitalism like capitalists.

[Endus]

Nobody hates capitalism like capitalists.

If you really want to raise questions like this, look at the members of Congress whose net worth escalates by more than a million a year while pulling down a quarter-mil salary as a member.

Not private citizens making entirely normal executive salaries. I mean, if you want to talk about tearing down the capitalist system for a socialist one, I'm all for that discussion, but it's way the fuck off-topic here.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Nobody hates capitalism like capitalists.

I too have noticed that conservative complaints about vaccines, Democrats, doctors, scientists, etc. is "they're making money off this!" like profit incentive is inherently sinister and bad. You'd think that every once in awhile conservatives would think about their own arguments against leftist things and go "Hey, aren't we doing this exact same thing?" but nah, they lack any sort of self awareness.

- - - Updated - - -

The spin was one of the things that interested me about this story. Getting your dad on the phone when you're meeting with your business partners is already proving access. Compare with, say, dad knows his son is trading on his name and promising access to foreign energy companies, so dad decides to stop talking with his son's business associates or meeting them.

You don't have to change your opinion on what's worse between Biden and Trump corruption scandals (or alleged corruption if you prefer it) to state and explain your actual opinion on this current event.

The millions earned by Hunter in between Joe's stints in public office do inspire questions on whether it kept going, when it started, and if it ever ended. Along with how separate Joe kept himself from his son's selling of the Biden brand. The good news is that these questions are actively being investigated.

The best case scenario when all the dust settles is that Joe emerges just being seen as behaving recklessly when he knew better. And even add in the touchy-feely articles about the son's struggles with drug addiction and Hunter's status as last living kid. I don't see people settling on Joe Biden chatting with his son's business partners just because they have abnormally riveting perspectives on the weather.

Joe Biden pledged to acknowledge his 7th granddaughter a few weeks after Maureen Dowd wrote her column "It's Seven Grandkids, Mr. President." Perhaps she better start crafting another called, "You weren't just calling Hunter to chat about the weather, Mr. President" or "Hunter didn't purchase the burner phones for the weather apps, Mr. President."

I like how "Hunter Biden can get his dad to talk to him on the phone" is believed to be some kind of slam dunk by conservatives, all while they forget that this hasn't even been proven to have happened. One guy said it happened and now it's treated as fact. You try to apply that kind of level of scrutiny to any conservative though, where more than 20 people say that Trump or some other conservative criminal has done something and they go "WELL THAT's JUST HEARSAY!"

[PosPosPos]

I like how "Hunter Biden can get his dad to talk to him on the phone" is believed to be some kind of slam dunk by conservatives, all while they forget that this hasn't even been proven to have happened. One guy said it happened and now it's treated as fact. You try to apply that kind of level of scrutiny to any conservative though, where more than 20 people say that Trump or some other conservative criminal has done something and they go "WELL THAT's JUST HEARSAY!"

Yeap, confessions on record, such as national television, are also apparently hearsay.

Conservatives are such shameless and self-serving hypocrites.

[Cthulhu 2020]

So conservatives who haven't fled this thread in embarrassment yet, is this still the slam dunk you believe it is? Wanna die on this hill?

[Edge-]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1687120734793986048

Dank Robinette with the dank vids.

Props to the media team for knowing that when you film a shot of someone drinking out of an opaque cup/glass you don't actually need to put any liquid in there. I do appreciate out this octogenarian has embraced the memes.

[Sunseeker]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1687120734793986048

Dank Robinette with the dank vids.

Props to the media team for knowing that when you film a shot of someone drinking out of an opaque cup/glass you don't actually need to put any liquid in there. I do appreciate out this octogenarian has embraced the memes.

Man $22 a cup tho, thats pricey.

[Breccia]

Man $22 a cup tho, thats pricey.

I mean, it is a political donation that happens to come with a free cup.

[Shadowferal]

I just have to;

[Edge-]

"HE CAN'T DO THAT BRANDON IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN INSULT!" - Fox News and conservatives, apparently.

They're just so mad that folks keep co-opting their shitty digs and turning them into hilarious memes.

[Breccia]

(siiiiip)

Ah.

Hannity had McCarthy on and asked about the Hunter Biden bribery scandal.

McCarthy refused to answer.

Wow.

Now, he did say "there was enough proof" (eyeroll) that the Biden family needed to come out into the public and prove that there was no crime.

Which is not how this works. Law enforcement -- or this parallel -- has to show there's enough evidence to bring things to trial, and then, has to bring enough evidence at trial to send the criminal to jail. See also, Trump's many grand juries. "I invented a scandal, prove me wrong" plays to the cultists, but it's not how Congressional actions work. Also, the whole "proving a negative" thing.

I mean, imagine if I accused GreenJesus of having multiple accounts, being also YUPPIE and Winter Blossom, and demanded they publicly prove otherwise or the blues would delete their accounts. I have no such evidence, and in fact, their posts speak for themselves. Yet, imagine if that's how it worked anyhow. As at least one of them is using a VPN, short of a Zoom meeting they couldn't do it.

And yet, McCarthy, who is saying this because he knows he has no proof himsef

Rep. James Comer (R-Ky.), the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, was pressed on the bribery allegations last month and said he was not sure if they were accurate.

“I don’t know if the allegations are true or not,” Comer told reporters before Congress broke for August recess.

is desperately trying to further the narrative, which is having trouble breaking through all the "Trump got arrested again" and "unemployment is down" hogging the news. "Make Biden prove he's not bribing people" is a lame-ass, limp-dick attack on POTUS.

And that's the best he had.

On Hannity.