Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Endus]

An incredibly trite and meaningless series of statements that ignores why it's difficult for third party candidates (including the cost, restrictive ballot access laws and the FPTP rules that favor the two-party system). I mean seriously, I expect better of you.

It boils down to people's choices. Yes, there are barriers, but Americans prefer these two parties over other options. At its core, that's why change does not happen.

That may seem "trite", but that's because of how simple that reality is. Americans choose the devils they know over any possibility of things getting better.

[Benggaul]

It boils down to people's choices. Yes, there are barriers, but Americans prefer these two parties over other options. At its core, that's why change does not happen.

Wrong again.

More than half — 56% of Americans — believe the current parties do such a poor job that a third major party is needed, according to a survey by Gallup. Indeed, minor parties are seeing an uptick in support and interest in recent years.

As I mentioned above, there is a hunger for more choices, but the fear of splitting the vote and allowing an opposition win is one of the major hurdles.

[Endus]

Wrong again.

They say one thing, then go out and vote differently.

As I mentioned above, there is a hunger for more choices, but the fear of splitting the vote and allowing an opposition win is one of the major hurdles.

Like I edited in; they eventually prefer the devil they know to the risk of something new. I can understand that kind of caution right now, with Trump as a threat, but that's not an explanation for the stranglehold the Ds and Rs have had for more than a century.

[Benggaul]

They say one thing, then go out and vote differently.



Like I edited in; they eventually prefer the devil they know to the risk of something new. I can understand that kind of caution right now, with Trump as a threat, but that's not an explanation for the stranglehold the Ds and Rs have had for more than a century.

It's not that they fear risking something new, it's that they fear the known quantity of the opposition. That's a pretty clear distinction.

[Flarelaine]

They say one thing, then go out and vote differently.

It's fucking FPTP. Even if they yearn for something new, voting for anything outside the two established parties is likely a wasted vote. So any reform would have to begin with ditching FPTP. But the powers that be also know this.

[Elegiac]

Page 203 of Hur's report states:

One report written by a Republican in which the only evidence of "secret dementia" is a few cherry-picked clarification questions over the course of multiple hours of interviews. Where's the reports from staffers about Biden's mental infirmity? Where's the reports from foreign leaders and dignitaries who have met him? Where are reports from everyone else who's interviewed Biden? They don't exist because the "secret dementia" conspiracy theory (which is what it is) is based entirely on hearsay: "Voters are afraid--" "Democrats fear--" "the Republican special counsel believes--" You'd think among the hundreds of reporters in DC who would sell their own mothers into prostitution for a scoop about Biden having "secret dementia" that a couple of them would pony up with some evidence, but nope!

And the most insidious part? You people just keep feeding into the narrative which is very obviously an attempt to pull a Clinton/Comey redux: the DC press corps is going out of its way to make GOP allegations seem as reasonable as possible, and now a report has emerged (also from a Republican) that provides "evidence."

Have some goddamn self-awareness.

[Kaleredar]

One report written by a Republican in which the only evidence of "secret dementia" is a few cherry-picked clarification questions over the course of multiple hours of interviews. Where's the reports from staffers about Biden's mental infirmity? Where's the reports from foreign leaders and dignitaries who have met him? Where are reports from everyone else who's interviewed Biden? They don't exist because the "secret dementia" conspiracy theory (which is what it is) is based entirely on hearsay: "Voters are afraid--" "Democrats fear--" "the Republican special counsel believes--" You'd think among the hundreds of reporters in DC who would sell their own mothers into prostitution for a scoop about Biden having "secret dementia" that a couple of them would pony up with some evidence, but nope!

And the most insidious part? You people just keep feeding into the narrative which is very obviously an attempt to pull a Clinton/Comey redux: the DC press corps is going out of its way to make GOP allegations seem as reasonable as possible, and now a report has emerged (also from a Republican) that provides "evidence."

Have some goddamn self-awareness.

I’m going to nip all of this in the bud even further:

Biden will be the Democrat nominee.

Trump will be the Republican nominee.

Even if Biden had dementia, he would be preferable to Trump.


End of story.

[prwraith]

Frankly, i'd rather leave the office unelected for four years than vote trump in.

You know what I don't miss, daily fucking headlines with the Trump white house's latest scandal. I don't miss the revolving door of political officers, I don't miss the gutting of our foreign affairs offices.

Literally not having a president would have been less damaging than what this imbecile did.

[Easo]

They say one thing, then go out and vote differently.

It's the same thing everywhere in the world. Especially goes for older voters.

[btlcryct]

One report written by a Republican in which the only evidence of "secret dementia" is a few cherry-picked clarification questions over the course of multiple hours of interviews. Where's the reports from staffers about Biden's mental infirmity? Where's the reports from foreign leaders and dignitaries who have met him? Where are reports from everyone else who's interviewed Biden? They don't exist because the "secret dementia" conspiracy theory (which is what it is) is based entirely on hearsay: "Voters are afraid--" "Democrats fear--" "the Republican special counsel believes--" You'd think among the hundreds of reporters in DC who would sell their own mothers into prostitution for a scoop about Biden having "secret dementia" that a couple of them would pony up with some evidence, but nope!

And the most insidious part? You people just keep feeding into the narrative which is very obviously an attempt to pull a Clinton/Comey redux: the DC press corps is going out of its way to make GOP allegations seem as reasonable as possible, and now a report has emerged (also from a Republican) that provides "evidence."

Have some goddamn self-awareness.

You asked for a credible source where he didn't remember being VP. I provided a link to the DOJ's own site and report. "Still not good enough!" is what you scream. Talk about needing self-awareness. My god. At this point, Biden himself could come out and say he has dementia, and you'd somehow spin it that the GOP made him do it.

[Elegiac]

You asked for a credible source where he didn't remember being VP. I provided a link to the DOJ's own site and report.

There is nothing in that source about him "not remembering being Vice President"

"Still not good enough!" is what you scream. Talk about needing self-awareness. My god. At this point, Biden himself could come out and say he has dementia, and you'd somehow spin it that the GOP made him do it.

Forgetting a few specific details over the course of multiple hours of interviews is not sufficient to indicate dementia. Again, you're just spreading a conspiracy theory at this point.

[btlcryct]

There is nothing in that source about him "not remembering being Vice President."

Are you Stevie Wonder or something? I even provided the page in the report AND listed the specific section:

Page 203 of Hur's report states:

In his interview with our office, Mr. Biden's memory was worse. He did not
remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview
when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?"), and
forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began ("in 2009, am I
still Vice President?"). 839 He did not remember, even within several years, when his
son Beau died. 81rn And his memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan
debate that was once so important to him. Among other things, he mistakenly said
he "had a real difference" of opinion with General Karl Eikenberry, when, in fact,
Eikenberry was an ally whom Mr. Eiden cited approvingly in his Thanksgiving memo
to President Obama.

https://www.justice.gov/storage/repo...ruary-2024.pdf

If you're trying to say that I'm saying he didn't remember he was VP at all, fine I guess you win. He didn't remember WHEN he was VP. Better?

[PosPosPos]

At this point, Biden himself could come out and say he has dementia, and you'd somehow spin it that the GOP made him do it.

This is nothing but projection until it actually happens, especially when to this very day you conservatives are still defending Trump or other republicans over things they have already admitted in public to doing.

[btlcryct]

This is nothing but projection until it actually happens, especially when to this very day you conservatives are still defending Trump or other republicans over things they have already admitted in public to doing.

Nope. I will admit, my beliefs are more conservative leaning, but I also believe Trump's ass belongs in jail. And nowhere near even a dogcatcher's ballot.

[PosPosPos]

Nope. I will admit, my beliefs are more conservative leaning, but I also believe Trump's ass belongs in jail. And nowhere near even a dogcatcher's ballot.

Doesn't change the fact that you are projecting your intellectual dishonesty on others based off something that never happened. By your own admission.

[Elegiac]

If you're trying to say that I'm saying he didn't remember he was VP at all, fine I guess you win. He didn't remember WHEN he was VP. Better?

Yes. Now the next question:

Do you think it is reasonable for any human being let alone someone in their eighties to recall with perfect clarity every detail of their lives when asked over the course of several hours of discussions?

Because if the answer is anything but 'no'; congratulations, buddy, I diagnose you and the rest of the human species with dementia. Hopefully you now understand how ridiculous your position is.

[Combatbutler]

The only way we can realistically get to a place where a third party would be viable would be to eliminate the electoral college and gerrymandering, and implement ranked choice voting, and the only way that happens is if we get a solid democratic majority in power for long enough to pass that legislation without strong opposition from the GOP. Even then the DNC might not want to risk diminishing its own power.

Which neither party will do, so what are your options then?

[btlcryct]

Yes. Now the next question:

Do you think it is reasonable for any human being let alone someone in their eighties to recall with perfect clarity every detail of their lives when asked over the course of several hours of discussions?

Because if the answer is anything but 'no'; congratulations, buddy, I diagnose you and the rest of the human species with dementia. Hopefully you now understand how ridiculous your position is.

No of course not. Not every detail. But remembering when you were VP? That's kind of an important thing that happens in anyone's life that holds that position. Something even someone in their eighties should remember if they're the President. The report doesn't say he couldn't remember everything he did while VP (that would be an unreasonable expectation of anyone regardless of age), but he couldn't even recall what years he held the position.

I'm not registering for either party, I'm registered as Independent. I believe in having the best person for the job in office, regardless of party. I have voted for both Bushes, Obama twice, hell I even voted for Perot in 96. I have not voted in a Presidential election since 2012, because I did not believe in any of the candidates offered. As I've told several people starting in 2016, we've been asked to vote between dog crap and cat crap. Either way, it's still crap. I'm not going to vote for the 'lesser of two evils', as I believe any country should have its best leading it. Right now, the US isn't there for me.

[Elegiac]

Which neither party will do, so what are your options then?

Shift one's perspective to where the political parties are structural elements of the American political system rather than a sports team.

The Democrats "will do" because they are the structural element within which necessary reform is possible, as opposed to the Republicans being the structural element dedicated entirely to obstruction.

No of course not. Not every detail. But--

"But" nothing. It's either reasonable or it isn't, and that doesn't change regardless of one's political affiliation.

[btlcryct]

"But" nothing. It's either reasonable or it isn't, and that doesn't change regardless of one's political affiliation.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but right now I don't have any faith in either of who will most likely be the candidates. For me, Hun's report wasn't good for Biden, and during his press conference the other night, he said he was the one that convinced the President of Mexico to open the gates to allow aide into Gaza. And Trump can't tell the difference between Haley and Pelosi multiple times in one short press conference, along with thinking he's above the law. Neither of them instill confidence for me if the time comes when crap really hits the fan. The President has an enormous amount of pressure, and we can't have anyone who could negatively impact possibly billions of lives with something said wrong or forgotten. Again, being pessimistic and believing in plan for the worst, hope for the best, if a nuclear war were to break out, do I trust Biden or Trump with the keys to the arsenal? Right now, my answer is a resounding nope.