The hate towards Calia is quite understandable

[baskev]

Nah, i think some of the horde want to go back to the old horde. But they do not get it makes them the enemy/bad guys again. And then they are mad about that 2.

Do i think its silly that calia is their leader? Yeah, derek proudmoore should have been it. makes more sense as her.
Do i think she needs to be thrown out? nope.

And on some level it makes sense. She is undead, with all her former subjects in lorderaon or wherever they live right now. And the undead has no other leader ship to fill the void.

As for valeera, man i think you and others on this thread are just mad the horde is no longer the horde. she has always been a bridge like this. but hey who am i. I know i getting hate for this anyway.

[Traveler Voltin]

No, I like the Horde when it's not a bunch of Nazis in leather or goth makeup. Not every Horde player wants to play the villain.

i hate being the villain but i rather be a villain than an alliance kiss ass.
you have peace without having leaders that kiss the alliance ass.

[Stelio Kontos]

i hate being the villain but i rather be a villain than an alliance kiss ass.
you have peace without having leaders that kiss the alliance ass.

I'm fine with the Horde as it is now. We can agree to disagree. Not being a racist, genocidal butcher doesn't make you an "alliance kiss ass", it just means you're...not a racist, genocidal butcher.

[Traveler Voltin]

I'm fine with the Horde as it is now. We can agree to disagree. Not being a racist, genocidal butcher doesn't make you an "alliance kiss ass", it just means you're...not a racist, genocidal butcher.

*points to Baine and thrall*

[Schattenlied]

Valeera should be forced to take the Blood Oath and become a Horde member.

LOL good luck with that.

Whoever tries to "force" her to do that is gonna turn up dead the next day and Valeera will be back in Stormwind, because as she says herself, her loyalties are personal, to Varian and his son... As long as the house of Wrynn persists she will be loyal to it, because Varian is the only reason she didn't die as a teenager in a gladiator pit while she was a slave to an Orc who is to this day a member of the Horde.

Literally everyone she has any personal connection with is Alliance side.

[Stelio Kontos]

*points to Baine and thrall*

I'm not seeing it. But then again, I don't carry water for "The Horde is only good when it is murdering, raping, and skull-fucking Alliance"-types.

/shrug

[bagina]

I'm fine with the Horde as it is now. We can agree to disagree. Not being a racist, genocidal butcher doesn't make you an "alliance kiss ass", it just means you're...not a racist, genocidal butcher.

How was Garrosh or Sylvanas racist lol. You just apply rl terms onto a fantasy story. You know your character murdered thousands upon thousands of people, right? Not very politically correct, right? You hear Golden say "genocide" you think "nazi". Be less predictable.

[Mellrod]

Also she has absolutely no ties to the Horde or the identity of the Forsaken..

I don't know about that. I think the rightful heir to Lordaeron, (where most of the humans who make up the forsaken come from) becoming undead and returning to lead her people is an interesting story idea. They just did some.. unexpected things with the whole light thing.

[Traveler Voltin]

How was Garrosh or Sylvanas racist lol. You just apply rl terms onto a fantasy story. You know your character murdered thousands upon thousands of people, right? Not very politically correct, right? You hear Golden say "genocide" you think "nazi". Be less predictable.

garrosh was racist.

[bagina]

garrosh was racist.

The same way Varian was racist

[Stelio Kontos]

How was Garrosh or Sylvanas racist lol. You just apply rl terms onto a fantasy story. You know your character murdered thousands upon thousands of people, right? Not very politically correct, right? You hear Golden say "genocide" you think "nazi". Be less predictable.

The official material itself uses the term 'genocide' for what the Lich Bitch did at Teldrassil. It's their story, you can feel free to tell them their story genocide isn't really genocide, chief keef.

Like I said, there are games for those types of people to play. The Postal series, Hearts of Iron 4 (as Germany though, wouldn't want to play Allied kiss asses like Britain or the US), and other games.

[Shedaar]

I don't want to sound racist but if Calia becomes leader of the forsaken then I will lol at every forsaken player character I will ever see.
She's even worse than Baine for Tauren LOL

[bagina]

The official material itself uses the term 'genocide' for what the Lich Bitch did at Teldrassil. It's their story, you can feel free to tell them their story genocide isn't really genocide, chief keef.

Like I said, there are games for those types of people to play. The Postal series, Hearts of Iron 4 (as Germany though, wouldn't want to play Allied kiss asses like Britain or the US), and other games.

Rather if you don't want to play as a problematic individual, play Animal Crossing?

In WoW you play as batle hardened one man army, a soldier that has a body count higer than populace of a small country. It's perfectly apprioprate to have less traditionally good factions.

[Stelio Kontos]

Rather if you don't want to play as a problematic individual, play Animal Crossing?

In WoW you play as batle hardened one man army, a soldier that has a body count higer than populace of a small country. It's perfectly apprioprate to have less traditionally good factions.

There's an ocean of distance between "less traditionally good" and genocidal, race-war waging monsters.

[Varodoc]

Anyone who thinks Calia is going away any time soon is deluding themself.

Calia Menethil
Alleria Windrunner
High Exarch Turalyon
High Exarch Yrel

The 4 characters I just mentioned will be the main characters of the Light and Void expansion. Mark my words.

Like her or not, Calia is not going anywhere. Do you really think they'd give her such a shining new model only to throw her in the bin soon after? Not a chance.

[bagina]

There's an ocean of distance between "less traditionally good" and genocidal, race-war waging monsters.

The Horde has always loved the war, it's always been at war with Alliance. So much that they had a gunship battle at freaking Lich King's doorstep. In fact the Horde was perfectly fine with Sylvanas' war until the plot demanded it wasn't.

I'm not saying I love that, but that's the reality of WoW.

[Dellis0991]

So I just watched this video clip and I see a lot of people complaining about Calia being in Orgrimmar and I can agree with the sentiment that she is not worthy to lead the Forsaken. No doubt she is a light abomination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bgduIXYEVE

Solution: Calia should be thrown from the roof of Grommash Hold as she doesn't belong on the Horde and Valeera should be forced to take the Blood Oath and become a Horde member.

And finally we can rest easy knowing that Calia will no longer be alive to try to take the throne of the Forsaken and make her illegitimated claim in the Horde where she doesn't belong.

Calia never made a claim to the Horde she was bought in due to Voss and the bulk of the forsaken asking her to help, also Voss is the acting leader of the forsaken. We don't know what Calia is quite yet, so calling her a abomination among a population of collective beings who are by nature are abominations in some kind of way is a stretch. Veleera don't give a fuck about HvA she care about individuals.

[Yarathir]

There's an ocean of distance between "less traditionally good" and genocidal, race-war waging monsters.

This.
You play in a universe where multiple forces exist to wipe out evil. So playing an openly evil faction would leave your character with a very short lifespan.

But frankly, most of the people that want an evil Horde also hate it when the Horde suffers any consequences at all.

[Stelio Kontos]

The Horde has always loved the war, it's always been at war with Alliance. So much that they had a gunship battle at freaking Lich King's doorstep. In fact the Horde was perfectly fine with Sylvanas' war until the plot demanded it wasn't.

Agree to disagree. I had no issues with Thrall's Horde, hell, that's when I played Horde as my main last. I had no issues with Vol'jin's short reign. Not every Horde player wants to play a genocide simulator.

- - - Updated - - -

But frankly, most of the people that want an evil Horde also hate it when the Horde suffers any consequences at all.

Exactly, they want all the real world-level darkness, without the Dresden, Nuremberg, or any other actual consequences for their actions.

[Yarathir]

Agree to disagree. I had no issues with Thrall's Horde, hell, that's when I played Horde as my main last. I had no issues with Vol'jin's short reign. Not every Horde player wants to play a genocide simulator.

It was probably when the story was at its best because while there was tension, it wasn't an all out attempt at le epik battle between factions that will go nowhere because both factions are played by people that don't like being alienated.