Sylvar and Venthyr Allied Races for Alliance and Horde Respectively

[Rozz]

Well, so are demons. Do they have no place in the mortal realm?

If you're being raised to be a catholic priest your whole life, to preach the essence of your belief, can you not break away from it?



It's not all battles. They want to visit Azeroth. Much like how the Pandaren wanted to explore outside their island boundaries. They joined the factions, after remaining neutral for most of the time.

They are a race of their own now. Not a mix of races.

That's debatable, they're still individuals with memories from their home worlds (unless Kyrian but they aren't relevant here at least). Each group is mix of races' souls that can eventually assimilate to denizeian status. I think leaving their covenants to join Azerothian factions is a step backwards in the process that let them ascend to a new form in the first place.

That's different from visiting Azeroth, which I have no problem with. Some already do.

[qwerty123456]

That's debatable, they're still individuals with memories from their home worlds (unless Kyrian but they aren't relevant here at least). Each group is mix of races' souls that can eventually assimilate to denizeian status. I think leaving their covenants to join Azerothian factions is a step backwards in the process that let them ascend to a new form in the first place.

That's different from visiting Azeroth, which I have no problem with. Some already do.

Well like the Venthyr have mostly turned from their purpose and so did alot of the Maldraxxians. Getting in touch with what it is to be mortal again and learning how to do their job properly might be a good excuse for going to Azeroth for awhile.

[RayoftheSun]

I would start by rejecting the premise that Allied Races necessarily need to have an arbitrary correlation with their "Parent Race." I think between Kul Tiran using an entirely custom rig, & Vulpera having no real link to Goblins, there's enough precedent for standalone Allied Races that don't need to be "The Worgen Allied Race™," for example.

With that in mind, here are a few that I feel would be inherently better than any Shadowlands denizen simply on account of the fact that they're more well-established in lore, have (semi-)plausible reasons to join a faction, are mortal & consequently tied to Azeroth, and don't have their racial existence undermined by interfering in mortal affairs.

Alliance:
-Broken Draenei
-Furbolg
-Jinyu
-Frostborn Dwarves
-Iron Dwarves
-Arrakoa

Either:
-Vrykul
-Naga
-Ethereal
-Tortollan
-Tuskarr

Horde:
-Ogre
-Mok'nathal
-Taunka
-Hozen
-Gilgoblin
-Forest Troll
-San'layn

etc.

Overall, there are only three on that list that I'm personally dying to play, and I'm largely uninterested in the rest. But just off the top of my head, we can justify all of those (Though some may be mutually exclusive [Dwarf variants]) according to current Allied Race Precedents.

Of all of those, the ones I want to see playable are the unshacked/kelfin. They should have been playable 8.3. Of all requested allied race ideas, they make the most sense to join based on prexisting lore.

[Unbelievable]

That's debatable, they're still individuals with memories from their home worlds (unless Kyrian but they aren't relevant here at least). Each group is mix of races' souls that can eventually assimilate to denizeian status. I think leaving their covenants to join Azerothian factions is a step backwards in the process that let them ascend to a new form in the first place.

That's different from visiting Azeroth, which I have no problem with. Some already do.

The point is that they are different races. They represent the Vampire, Angel, Faun and so on, that are missing from the playable races list.

Of all of those, the ones I want to see playable are the unshacked/kelfin. They should have been playable 8.3. Of all requested allied race ideas, they make the most sense to join based on prexisting lore.

They, probably, will be.
They have a male and a female model.
8.2.5 brought us updated Goblin models.
They are present in Durotar, as of patch 8.3.

[RayoftheSun]

The point is that they are different races. They represent the Vampire, Angel, Faun and so on, that are missing from the playable races list.



They, probably, will be.
They have a male and a female model.
8.2.5 brought us updated Goblin models.
They are present in Durotar, as of patch 8.3.

Someday I hope. When though? I am not sure. They could end up like taunka or ogres which technically joined the horde, but aren't playable.

[Rozz]

The point is that they are different races. They represent the Vampire, Angel, Faun and so on, that are missing from the playable races list.



They, probably, will be.
They have a male and a female model.
8.2.5 brought us updated Goblin models.
They are present in Durotar, as of patch 8.3.

Hence why I said: from a lore standpoint, I don't like the idea.

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Well like the Venthyr have mostly turned from their purpose and so did alot of the Maldraxxians. Getting in touch with what it is to be mortal again and learning how to do their job properly might be a good excuse for going to Azeroth for awhile.

Aren't those more so the bad guys doing so? Both covenants are dealing with regaining their purpose from those who faltered. But if you want to use the type likely to break off, that's fine I guess

[Nagawithlegs]

I genuinely don't understand why people think Blizzard would add playable Ogres, Quillboar and Naga to the game over consumer friendly races like angels and vampires.

You have to remember that lore doesn't trump anything.

(Also Exile's Reach kind of hints that Ogres, Quillboar and Harpies will never be playable anyway.)

[Dald]

GARGOYLE PEOPLE. Both sides.

Glide racial like DH glide

Stoneform variation (First stoneform option for Horde)

That is all.

[Unbelievable]

Someday I hope. When though? I am not sure. They could end up like taunka or ogres which technically joined the horde, but aren't playable.

The next round of allied races.

Hence why I said: from a lore standpoint, I don't like the idea.

From a lore standpoint, there's nothing stopping them from joining our factions. The only problem would be Venthyr and light exposure which, can be resolved like Forsaken being healed by the light.

I genuinely don't understand why people think Blizzard would add playable Ogres, Quillboar and Naga to the game over consumer friendly races like angels and vampires.

You have to remember that lore doesn't trump anything.

(Also Exile's Reach kind of hints that Ogres, Quillboar and Harpies will never be playable anyway.)

Actually, Ogres are a likely candidate.
They were part of the many Horde versions from day 1.
Metzen wanted them playable. They were considered for vanilla WoW.
Rexxar uses a Kul Tiran skeleton.
The Maldraxxian Gladiators use the Ogre skeleton with a different posture.
The females of the race can use the female Kul Tiran skeleton.

Naga are, also, a possibility.
Although, in their current form they are unplayable. But, Chris Metzen wanted them playable as well. They were considered for vanilla WoW. They have males and females. They had their own faction in Warcraft 3. The Sethrak could be used as a prototype.

[Nagawithlegs]

From a lore standpoint, there's nothing stopping them from joining our factions. The only problem would be Venthyr and light exposure which, can be resolved like Forsaken being healed by the light.

Venthyr aren't allergic to sunlight, you can see some of them hanging out in Bastion. It's Holy Light that they are weak to (and so are Void Elves and Forsaken but gameplay wise they aren't).

Lore wise it's likely because they are created through shadow magic (their anima is shadow magic ingame) and concept wise its lol Vampire, but they really have nothing in common with usual Vampires other than looks.

[Tziva]

I like the overall venthyr aesthetic but they're so fucking ugly as characters. Someone took the nightbourne model and thought "how can I make this even more decrepit looking?" Also, maybe it's because I don't follow lore, but I dont really understand why they would align with the Horde either.


Anyway, if we get any races out of this expac, I want it to be sentient owls and dredgers and abominations. It won't happen, but that's what I want. I don't care about satyrs or vampires or blue people.

[Syegfryed]

Not exactly, but I digress.

they don't need to care what morals do, the venthyr NPC will just do what they want.

They are following Denathrius, a damned First One.
Or is it Eternal One?

This one that one...

they are following him, to serve the janitor, going against their purpose and duty

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I like the overall venthyr aesthetic but they're so fucking ugly as characters.

finnally races that are not just prett pansier elves tbh

Also, maybe it's because I don't follow lore, but I dont really understand why they would align with the Horde either.

They have to join one faction, horde seems more likely since they share some aesthetics and themes, plus, Kael'thas was a key character in revendreath and in the venthyr plotline that would more likely vouch for the blood elves/horde, like tyrande would do for the alliance with the fauns

[qwerty123456]

Hence why I said: from a lore standpoint, I don't like the idea.

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Aren't those more so the bad guys doing so? Both covenants are dealing with regaining their purpose from those who faltered. But if you want to use the type likely to break off, that's fine I guess

Yes it is the bad guys now but everyone was ok with how shit was going up until the drought having gone on for some time. The Venthyr didn't just start loving their job too much they have been this way for awhile. Also while not bad guys per say the Archon was kinda questioning how she had set up Bastion. Aredenweld is the only covenant that I don't remember having a "is this set up the right way" type of thing in its zone.

[Tziva]

finnally races that are not just prett pansier elves tbh

I don't give a fuck if they are pretty -- I mean, I literally just asked to be able to play an abomination in the same post you quoted -- but generally people want to play races that have some sort of pleasing aesthetic to them, even if it's just an "hell yeah that's rad" level. Orcs aren't pretty, either, but they look cool. Venthyr are just outright hideous and don't really have any sort of positive physical characteristics to me.

I'm sure people would love to play them but I maintain that I'd rather have Dredgers!

They have to join one faction, horde seems more likely since they share some aesthetics and themes, plus, Kael'thas was a key character in revendreath and in the venthyr plotline that would more likely vouch for the blood elves/horde, like tyrande would do for the alliance with the fauns

Ah right, forgot about the kaelthas thing.

[Rozz]

From a lore standpoint, there's nothing stopping them from joining our factions. The only problem would be Venthyr and light exposure which, can be resolved like Forsaken being healed by the light.

It isn't about what's stopping them, it's about who they are. There is nothing stopping anyone from doing what they want, but that isn't my issue. It doesn't make thematic sense at the moment, for people who dedicate themselves to the functionality of their realm to swear loyalty to mortal races on a singular planet. The SL races interacting, visiting, and tending to Azeroth is already a thing. They do so for many planets/worlds.

They're essentially at a higher standard, working for the big picture. For any of them to downgrade from their wisdom or position for the extremely petty faction war is just bad imo. At the most, Maldraxxians can probably get away with wanting to join warfare in any place they go but it still means abandoning their position to protect the shadowlands. And we're literally killing off all the factions straying from the path or falling back into their mortal vices/selfishness.

Unless something changes, I can't see any of the races save for some renegade Maldraxxi joining the factions.

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Yes it is the bad guys now but everyone was ok with how shit was going up until the drought having gone on for some time. The Venthyr didn't just start loving their job too much they have been this way for awhile. Also while not bad guys per say the Archon was kinda questioning how she had set up Bastion. Aredenweld is the only covenant that I don't remember having a "is this set up the right way" type of thing in its zone.

The Venthyr who are abusing souls or are back to their wicked ways are the ones we kill. There was a failed coup prior to the one that leads up to the raid, so all the 'good Venthyr' were either forced to abuse souls, joined our side to do right again, or were always following their path and punished for it. The covenant was never okay wth how things were going during the drought and the corruption leading up to it. So since we're allied with the only Venthyr not willing to fall to their mortal ways and are trying to regain the pride of their purpose, it doesn't make sense for some to suddenly abandon that to join warfare.

The Archon's way was flawed but in this case, would actually support her argument for memory wiping. She would never empower souls who act on personal interest and meddle in mortal affairs. It's why Devos was partially in the wrong, as she acted rashly and damned Arthas to a fate he possibly didn't deserve (and Uther never got closure). Taking away Kyrians' identity/memories caused them suffering and a gap in their knowledge. She acknowledges that at least.

Ardenweld's thing is less a right vs wrong and more so about the souls' devotion to the wilds and life itself. That's why it wouldn't make sense for the forest guardians to leave, they're happiest where they are. (Although I'm not sure they're even allowed to leave since they're all supposed to be loyal to the Queen first).

[Unbelievable]

Venthyr aren't allergic to sunlight, you can see some of them hanging out in Bastion. It's Holy Light that they are weak to (and so are Void Elves and Forsaken but gameplay wise they aren't).

Lore wise it's likely because they are created through shadow magic (their anima is shadow magic ingame) and concept wise its lol Vampire, but they really have nothing in common with usual Vampires other than looks.

I wouldn't say that. They, also, drink anima like blood.
In fact, The appearance and themes of the venthyr seem mainly inspired by Dracula and its adaptations.

The name "venthyr" is similar to the Ventrue, a prominent vampire clan from Vampire: The Masquerade. Tremen Winefang is a reference to the Tremere clan of the same universe. It's also similar to a number of Eastern European names for vampires or vampire-like creatures, such as Dhamphir.

Some of the male venthyr NPCs are voiced by Simon Templeman, who is known for his role as Kain, a vampire antihero in the video game series Legacy of Kain.

I like the overall venthyr aesthetic but they're so fucking ugly as characters. Someone took the nightbourne model and thought "how can I make this even more decrepit looking?" Also, maybe it's because I don't follow lore, but I dont really understand why they would align with the Horde either.


Anyway, if we get any races out of this expac, I want it to be sentient owls and dredgers and abominations. It won't happen, but that's what I want. I don't care about satyrs or vampires or blue people.

Because they are way too similar to Blood elves. As can be seen with Kael'thas in Revendreth.

It isn't about what's stopping them, it's about who they are. There is nothing stopping anyone from doing what they want, but that isn't my issue. It doesn't make thematic sense at the moment, for people who dedicate themselves to the functionality of their realm to swear loyalty to mortal races on a singular planet. The SL races interacting, visiting, and tending to Azeroth is already a thing. They do so for many planets/worlds.

They're essentially at a higher standard, working for the big picture. For any of them to downgrade from their wisdom or position for the extremely petty faction war is just bad imo. At the most, Maldraxxians can probably get away with wanting to join warfare in any place they go but it still means abandoning their position to protect the shadowlands. And we're literally killing off all the factions straying from the path or falling back into their mortal vices/selfishness.

Unless something changes, I can't see any of the races save for some renegade Maldraxxi joining the factions.

You're talking about them like they're some kind of Titans. They're not. If i'd advocated for playable eternal ones then, it would have been redundant. The simple covenant races aren't.

[Rozz]

You're talking about them like they're some kind of Titans. They're not. If i'd advocated for playable eternal ones then, it would have been redundant. The simple covenant races aren't.

The titans safeguarded life on Azeroth. The denizens of the SLs safeguard the flow of the afterlife and souls, the reasons why you see this connection is bc both perform for a higher purpose/big picture for the universe. That's the reason why making them playable characters seems silly to me. Their day jobs are more important than the factions themselves and they exist as Venthyr/Sylvar for the sake of their duty alone. I can't retype the same thing over again. Until that changes, no--from a lore standpoint--I don't like the idea. You'd have a better chance getting me to okay the dragon flights, because they show overt factional/racial favoritism.

[Syegfryed]

I don't give a fuck if they are pretty -- I mean, I literally just asked to be able to play an abomination in the same post you quoted -- but generally people want to play races that have some sort of pleasing aesthetic to them, even if it's just an "hell yeah that's rad" level. Orcs aren't pretty, either, but they look cool. Venthyr are just outright hideous and don't really have any sort of positive physical characteristics to me.

venthyr look like dracula/nosferatu vibes, you kow, classic monster, that to me is pretty rad.

I'm sure people would love to play them but I maintain that I'd rather have Dredgers!

they don't have females though, that is problem like or not, and we have then as goblins basically..
Ah right, forgot about the kaelthas thing.[/QUOTE]

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It isn't about what's stopping them, it's about who they are. There is nothing stopping anyone from doing what they want, but that isn't my issue. It doesn't make thematic sense at the moment, for people who dedicate themselves to the functionality of their realm to swear loyalty to mortal races on a singular planet.

it is pretty simple rly:

"you guys help to save our realm and our existence, now, we will send some help to save your world as well"

you don't need to overthink or put too much effort on it.

[qwerty123456]

The Venthyr who are abusing souls or are back to their wicked ways are the ones we kill. There was a failed coup prior to the one that leads up to the raid, so all the 'good Venthyr' were either forced to abuse souls, joined our side to do right again, or were always following their path and punished for it. The covenant was never okay wth how things were going during the drought and the corruption leading up to it. So since we're allied with the only Venthyr not willing to fall to their mortal ways and are trying to regain the pride of their purpose, it doesn't make sense for some to suddenly abandon that to join warfare.

The Archon's way was flawed but in this case, would actually support her argument for memory wiping. She would never empower souls who act on personal interest and meddle in mortal affairs. It's why Devos was partially in the wrong, as she acted rashly and damned Arthas to a fate he possibly didn't deserve (and Uther never got closure). Taking away Kyrians' identity/memories caused them suffering and a gap in their knowledge. She acknowledges that at least.

Ardenweld's thing is less a right vs wrong and more so about the souls' devotion to the wilds and life itself. That's why it wouldn't make sense for the forest guardians to leave, they're happiest where they are. (Although I'm not sure they're even allowed to leave since they're all supposed to be loyal to the Queen first).

Venthyr is the only campaign I haven't done yet so I might be wrong but I was pretty sure that the Prince only tried a rebellion after the drought started which started relatively recently. Everyone was fine with the decadence and stuff up until the drought then some were like "hey we can't drain these guys anymore they can't take it" and what not(at least those Denathrius didn't send into the sun area). They also have a new leader now so forcing Venthyr to go live a mortal life for a bit to remove some of the pride or privilege or what not might be a good thing.

The strange thing about Bastion is that people that could fail and fall were sent there. Like why would the Arbiter send you to an afterlife you can completely fail at and ruin. I could see the Archon sending some Kyrian/Forsworn to Azeroth in an attempt to find a better way or to test the effects of new memories on them or something like that.

Yeah Ardenweld seems like the biggest stretch at making an allied race. The Vorkai, Sylvari, and Faerie's don't seem to have been born from mortal souls so the only way I could see them becoming an allied race would be if the Winter Queen wants them to experience the lives of the beings they take care of or she wants more accurate plays lol.

Maldraxxians would be easy to have join since being shadowlands beings they shouldn't perma die on Azeroth. What a great way to get some extra combat experience. And with the house of eyes gone they are going to need people gathering intel.

Personally I wouldn't want any of the Shadowlands races to be playable except for the Stoneborn and the Aranakk cause they both look cool as hell. Stoneborn would be an easy explanation as they are created and we could be easily taught how to create them and I guess the Aranakk could join us to act for the eyes of the Primus if he ever returns.

I don't give a fuck if they are pretty -- I mean, I literally just asked to be able to play an abomination in the same post you quoted -- but generally people want to play races that have some sort of pleasing aesthetic to them, even if it's just an "hell yeah that's rad" level. Orcs aren't pretty, either, but they look cool. Venthyr are just outright hideous and don't really have any sort of positive physical characteristics to me.

I'm sure people would love to play them but I maintain that I'd rather have Dredgers!

Yeah I don't get the Venthyr either. Either be cool as fuck looking like Denathrius or sexy like the blood elves if you wanna be decadent. They look like someone from the 1920's Grandparents.

Dredgers are ok but Stoneborn are a thousand times cooler. And with mechagnomes not being able to transmog like half their gear I don't think it would be a problem to have only certain chest pieces work on them.

[Unbelievable]

The titans safeguarded life on Azeroth. The denizens of the SLs safeguard the flow of the afterlife and souls, the reasons why you see this connection is bc both perform for a higher purpose/big picture for the universe. That's the reason why making them playable characters seems silly to me. Their day jobs are more important than the factions themselves and they exist as Venthyr/Sylvar for the sake of their duty alone. I can't retype the same thing over again. Until that changes, no--from a lore standpoint--I don't like the idea. You'd have a better chance getting me to okay the dragon flights, because they show overt factional/racial favoritism.

Let me exemplify it for you.
The Titans are the equivalent of the Eternal ones.
Titan Keepers are the equivalent of Bastion Centurion, Maldraxxus Abomination, Revendreth Biggun and Ardenweald Tirnnen.
The Titan creations, like the Vrykul (which, evolved into Humans), Earthen (which, became Dwarves), Mechagnomes (which, became gnomes), Goblins and Breakers (which, would later on become Orcs) are the equivalent of the covenant races.
They were made with a certain purpose but, they broke it and became playable.

Earthen were the first successful creation. The kindhearted earthen would specialize in crafting mountains and carving out the deep places of the world.

The clockwork mechagnomes were designed by Keeper Mimiron, they would help build and maintain the Keepers' extraordinary machineries.

The task of safeguarding many of the Keepers' holdings fell to the iron-skinned vrykul and the chiseled tol'vir.

Grand Architect Mimiron created the goblins by experimenting on a native race of Azeroth with kaja'mite.

Breakers are The descendants of the giant Grond who was created by Aggramar to free Draenor from the Evergrowth.

Personally I wouldn't want any of the Shadowlands races to be playable except for the Stoneborn and the Aranakk cause they both look cool as hell. Stoneborn would be an easy explanation as they are created and we could be easily taught how to create them and I guess the Aranakk could join us to act for the eyes of the Primus if he ever returns.

Dredgers are ok but Stoneborn are a thousand times cooler. And with mechagnomes not being able to transmog like half their gear I don't think it would be a problem to have only certain chest pieces work on them.

Aranakk are not going to be playable because they are a spider race with 4 legs.

Stoneborn aren't gonna be a playable race, either. They have wings and feet the size of a Vengeance Metamorphosis. Even so, they could end up as a racial - as i would very much like them to be a Venthyr transformation ability, like in some vampire movies.

It's really, quite, simple:
The Kyrians of Bastion.
The Gladiators of Maldraxxus.
The Sylvar of Ardenweald.
And the Venthyr of Revendreth.