To be honest, Anduin is the cancer of story.

[Maxilian]

I don't really think he have been that bad of a character lately, he's just an idealist, and it have shown that it doesn't work that well and it have blown in his face a couple of times lately, so... what's the problem?

I think the main problem with Anduin (and in most cases, with the WOW lore), is that many important detail of a character progression are in books, so as people only see what is presented in the game, it feels... "bland" or like something is missing

[Darknessvamp]

I have to agree, the tendrils of his limp characterisation have already contracted around and infected every other major character we have left and he is content to drag this whole story to the cliff edge for Blanduin's sake of flimsy and undeserved heroics. It's actually depressing to think he had somewhat of an interesting character back in MoP and showcased a few elements of it during his small appearance in Legion before he was purged and Marty Stued for BfA.

Sylvanas tho was equally done dirty, she didn't get turned into a Mary Sue. She got forced into becoming a plot device for a poorly thought out story line that's been dragging it's heels for six years.

[Minikin]

Thrall severs Jaina.
Thrall and Jaina serve their King Anduin.
Baine?Anduin's pet!worthless!

Don't you get tired of this circle you keep pacing? Every post is about oh how bad anduin is, how they did Garrosh bad and.....some wierd infatuation with thrall's balls....

[Zig Zug]

He is the worst written character since 1994.He occupies a lot of story resources.

EVERY character will eventually serve this boring Mary Sue.

I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

Womp womp. Try harder next time.

[Athredas]

Nothing, and I repeat NOTHING, can be possibly worse than that piece of garbage Baine. Seriously though, can the factions just get rid of all of the peace lovers?

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Are y'all trying to have an actual conversation with someone that describes "X as the cancer of Y"?

[Broken Fox]

I'm ok with Anduin existing, its turning everyone else around him into glorified lapdogs that's dumb. Why is the Alliance following some fucking kid when they have Tyrande, Velen, Genn and whoever the fuck leads the dwarves. Since he's entered the story they've all been neglected. It's not the Alliance it's the Anduin faction. Jaina feels more like a free agent that does whatever she wants.

Baine, Saurfang, Thrall and "Zappy boy" are all far worse. This especially hurts as I play Horde.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Age itself is not a sign of progression.

which is why I said they tend to progress as they age not that aging was he progress in it it self.

So at what point did he develop as a character? All of this sounds like "generic lawful good priest adventurer" stuff to me. What events shaped his views, and how do they show that in the story?

you know character development isn’t defined by swapping nonesens DND ailments right? A lawful good character can progress and still be lawful good at the end of it.

Sticking up to his father is pretty obvious lawful good boy step 1 when in contrast to the chaotic and often not good Varian at the time.

sticking up to his father in matters of state and taking an active role in the governing of the alliance also isn’t something he was doing prior it’s something all of his previous princely/priest training lead into.

Investigate the TH is maybe a little not lawful, until you realize the TH SHOULD have been investigated and Anduin was right and his father was nearly very costly wrong, teaching Anduin ~literally nothing~ and telling him he should disobey his father more often cause clearly he's not perfect.

you contradict your self you can’t both learn nothing and learn that you should disobey your father because they are fallible.

Leaving his guard - Again, young boy, adventurous spirit, already ran away from the Alliance seeking him in the first place... We established this is a pretty basic story for a child. It's a good start - But it doesn't go anywhere. Him confronting Garrosh isn't the result of some journey of his, you find him, he stays with Chi'ji the (coincidentally) Healing Spirit of Pandaria, where he learns ~literally nothing~ because he already knew what he needed to learn from there. Then, after you've spent all the time actually discovering the problem with the Divine Bell and getting to Garrosh and nearly stopping him, he shows up with the Problem Solving Hammer(tm) and deactivates the bell. (And promptly has it smashed on top of him, incapacitating him for nearly the rest of the expansion until he shows up with Wrathion.)

anduin wonders pandaria to further develop him self with out the guiding hands of the alliance and finds Chi’Ji who reinforces the view that only he believes in at that point which leads directly into him confronting garrosh instead of going to the alliance who wouldn’t support what he was doing.

"Trained with members of the Alliance" =/= "Active member of the Alliance"

I mean it totally does but even if it didn’t he was taking an active role in the alliance like tagging along to the pre wrath peace talks with thrall or again being the core reason the council of three hammers exist at all.

Literally, I would expect every Human to be trained by Humans or allies of Humans unless they have a unique backstory stating so. This is not unique to Anduin, and is not activity with the Alliance - It's activity with Alliance Leadership,

Not every human trainings with the leaders of the alliance gets brief on matters of state and takes part in diplomatic meetings even if only a spectator.

which he had no choice of.

varian also didn’t want anduin to be a priest or to send him away to train both were a choice anduin made when varian wanted him to be a warrior like him self.

And yet he still asks for her to tell her the truth in the Maw. Why? If he believes she's beyond peace, why would he believe she would tell him any differently?

Because he still believes.

captives getting info out of there captors is a common story telling trope and a great way to feed info to the audience.

This is a bullshit excuse in a world with magic portals. Blizzard really needs to think up better excuses.

excuse or not it’s canon that large fighting forces can’t move long range with portals or teleportation.

That, and it shows Anduin still hadn't grown at all as a leader whatsoever by the start of BfA, nor had any of the rest of the Alliance leaders apparently, because committing your entire force to one area is the worst strategy anyone has ever heard of.

But regardless - Nobody believes the entire Alliance army went chasing Sylvanas to Silithus. Did a force go there? Absolutely, no doubt about it. But the entire Alliance all at once was tricked so badly they couldn't rebound? Not a chance.

the entire alliance army didn’t go chasing sylvanas the night elfs were sent via navy to try and beat her there so they could get a hold of the area before the horde could set up shop because they were the nearest and could get there the fastest. By the time they realized the horde was going for the tree and turned around they didn’t have time to get back nor did the other alliance forces have time to get to the tree before the horde took it.

Knowing the Night Elves were sending their entire force away, would be a good excuse for Anduin to send support to Teldrassil, knowing Sylvanas is on the move. Which didn't happen. And it was troops from Orgrimmar,

they were sending support but they couldn’t beat the speed of the horde who were right next door.

which included a lot of Sylvanas' Forsaken as well - It was not just Orcs, but it was almost entirely Night Elf defenders. 2v1 isn't exactly fair.

there was no sizeable forsaken movement there was no 2v1 the attack was almost entirely forces from org.

[sunxsera]

He is the worst written character since 1994.He occupies a lot of story resources.

EVERY character will eventually serve this boring Mary Sue.

-----------------------

lol,Alliance fans... of course you like Anduin,but don't forget how you used to treat Thrall.Remember guys when people used to complain how Thrall was a Mary Sue for being a powerful shaman? I wish that people were complaining now about Jaina Tyande and Anduin getting DBZ powers.BTW,Sylvanas is no longer Horde character after 8.25.

“Green Jesus this...Green Jesus that...” "Mary Sue" “Horder bias” “blizz favor horde too much” “why quest with horde npc?”"Why am I going to save Horde leader"...

you compained over and over again during cata.

after that?

Khadgar---Whitehair Jesus(6.0 pre-patch 6.2)
Velen---WhiteBeard Jesus(7.2 7.3)
Malfurion---GreenBeard Jesus(7.0)
Turalyon---Light Jesus(7.3)
Alleria---Void Jesus(7.3)
Tyrande---Moon Jesus(7.0)
Magni---Diamond Jesus(BfA)
Now we have Anduin---Jesus of Jesuses
Everyone looks like The boy king's servant.

since the Shadowland pre-patch, all 3 alliance leader show feat of strength while the horde leader just got beat over and over…We go in the maw,we found Jaina all good fighting them while Baine and Thrall are just powerless.Finally the Jailer attack them and once again the horde leader got beat while Anduin got a ‘‘heroic’’ moment.

Do you complain about every character who has ever been in the spotlight ?
Garrosh and Thrall had more representation than the combined alliance leadership ... writing doesnt allways favour one side. Deal with it like an adult.

[Rhlor]

He is the worst written character since 1994.He occupies a lot of story resources.

EVERY character will eventually serve this boring Mary Sue.

-----------------------

lol,Alliance fans... of course you like Anduin,but don't forget how you used to treat Thrall.Remember guys when people used to complain how Thrall was a Mary Sue for being a powerful shaman? I wish that people were complaining now about Jaina Tyande and Anduin getting DBZ powers.BTW,Sylvanas is no longer Horde character after 8.25.

“Green Jesus this...Green Jesus that...” "Mary Sue" “Horder bias” “blizz favor horde too much” “why quest with horde npc?”"Why am I going to save Horde leader"...

you compained over and over again during cata.

after that?

Khadgar---Whitehair Jesus(6.0 pre-patch 6.2)
Velen---WhiteBeard Jesus(7.2 7.3)
Malfurion---GreenBeard Jesus(7.0)
Turalyon---Light Jesus(7.3)
Alleria---Void Jesus(7.3)
Tyrande---Moon Jesus(7.0)
Magni---Diamond Jesus(BfA)
Now we have Anduin---Jesus of Jesuses
Everyone looks like The boy king's servant.

since the Shadowland pre-patch, all 3 alliance leader show feat of strength while the horde leader just got beat over and over…We go in the maw,we found Jaina all good fighting them while Baine and Thrall are just powerless.Finally the Jailer attack them and once again the horde leader got beat while Anduin got a ‘‘heroic’’ moment.

he is golden husbando

[Varodoc]

Alleria---Void Jesus(7.3)

Void AND Archer Jesus. Don't forget that, by Sylvanas' own admission, Alleria was the brightest of all Farstriders of Quel'Thalas.

[omeomorfismo]

Void AND Archer Jesus. Don't forget that, by Sylvanas' own admission, Alleria was the brightest of all Farstriders of Quel'Thalas.

lol? new retcon?

[Powerogue]

He isn't a Mary Sue because he's not all powerful, he's not all knowing, he regularly fails, makes mistakes, and falls short of people's expectations. He's not even completely morally perfect with what we saw him endorse in Shadows Rising and the dangerous gamble he played freeing Saurfang behind the night elves' backs that ultimately ended the Fourth War.

The problem is people like you labeling every character even remotely not-evil a Mary Sue. See laughable list:

He is the worst written character since 1994.He occupies a lot of story resources.

Khadgar---Whitehair Jesus(6.0 pre-patch 6.2)
Velen---WhiteBeard Jesus(7.2 7.3)
Malfurion---GreenBeard Jesus(7.0)
Turalyon---Light Jesus(7.3)
Alleria---Void Jesus(7.3)
Tyrande---Moon Jesus(7.0)
Magni---Diamond Jesus(BfA)
Now we have Anduin---Jesus of Jesuses
Everyone looks like The boy king's servant.

My Mary Sue-O-Meter will always start and end at Drizz't Do'urden. (And maybe WoW's equivalent, Med'an). Someone so perfect and immediately mastering everything they attempt you feel the world and story only exists to make them look cool.

The only one of those we've seen recently is us.

[loras]

Correct. While Sylvanas is the epitome of an evil Mary Sue, our friend (we HAVE to be friends with him, or we will be depicted as "unreasonable", or straight evil) Andy is another flavour of Mary Sue. He reminds me a lot of Cata Thrall, but in an even more annoying version.

- - - Updated - - -



That would be Med'an levels of Mary Sue LOL

He doesn't seem overly pure, what with the mind controlling, manipulating and abetting of gruesome tactics (Alleria and Turalyon's torture, Genn being Genn, the dark irons slaughtering goblins by the hundreds, void magic in general).

Nor does he seem unreasonably liked either, Velen has the priest-priest mentor thing going on and the dwarves/Genn had a bond with his father. Tyrande never respected him much and Malfurion just follows her, Jaina does her own thing as always and Mekkatorque exists, if barely.

On the horde side Sylvanas' hate is a bit odd as the other horde leaders likely remember him pleading to spare their collective bacons after the siege of orgrimmar. That doesn't translate to instant love except perhaps for peacebeef, but it goes a long way to explaining their inclination to view him as reasonable and mild at least. The contrast with Sylvanas' hatred might make them seem a lot more appreciative of Anduin than they are, and by now we know her reasons for disliking him are not exactly shared by anyone else on Azeroth.

[eurojust]

Lol at people saying he isn't a mary sue : every one loves him, respects him, bows to him even the mega priest velen and he's such a good guy that doing something bad hurts him.

[TheRevenantHero]

I can't believe people are saying Anduin is the most well-written character in the game. Like....what? You legitimately think this? Because he's a predictable Gary Stu who can never do anything wrong. The fact that Golden, who writes for Anduin, is in charge of him means he will always be a boring as fuck Gary Stu.

[geco]

I repeat they say that Anduin is the best character in the game and he is the only one that we do not even know why he is in the position he is.
Why is he the leader of the Alliance if he did not do anything to win the position and he is not an ederitario.
And he's a Gary Stu. Because in the same way that the powers that Sylvanas draws do not make sense. It doesn't make sense for people to listen to Anduin in their plans. He could not have signed the peace deal at the end of BFA.

I mean literally the end of BFA is we are going to sign a treaty with the Horde that they will surely not respect and give the Kaldorei gifts in case the Horde attacks again which we know will attack again. Although they do not agree with me, they have to comply with it because it is me.

PS: It also doesn't make sense that he teaches VAROCK the meaning of Honor.

[DeltrusDisc]

Honestly, I liked his character in Pandaria and his relationship with Wrathion. It was like seeing two flawed brothers trying to understand the world around them in different but proactive ways.

Now the problem, IMO, is that Anduin is no longer flawed in the same way. They made him too goodsided for a game where there must always be some conflict between the two main factions.

There must always be (thunder clap) A FACTION CONFLICT!

- - - Updated - - -

If you want experience, you should look to Velen. Dude led a utopia for thousands of years longer than Tyrande has been alive.

My space goat occasionally also squid friends are my space goat occasionally also squid friends, HOWEVER, they are still new to the Alliance, certainly compared with the likes of the humans, dwarves, gnomes, and Night elves.

- - - Updated - - -

Turalyon and Alleria have 1.000 years of experience fighting the Legion, and they now lead the Alliance, so get over it.

1,000, yawn.

We've been at it with the Legion and other threats for 10,000 years! How dare you insult us!

[Kathranis]

Is he a Mary Sue or a Damsel? I can't really recall him actually meaningfully altering the outcome of any battles, and his two most impactful deeds were arguably setting Garrosh and Saurfang free. He's currently imprisoned himself.

[Shedaar]

I wish Varian was here...
I don't think Sylvanas would be so brave to start BFA if Varian was alive