With Blizz Giving Us What We Are Asking For, Is it Time for 10-Man?

[Stormbreed]

This thread on the wow forums has been picking up a lot of stream so I thought I would bring it to everyone's attention. Lets all jump on board, I for one agree 100% 10 man raiding is amazing. Watching Echo and Limit progress on FF in small groups they can arrange and change raiding time with weekly brought me back to 10mans and how incredible it was! Lets keep the thread going to see if we can get Blizzard to give us back what we all want!

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...izzard/1144259

And what a powerful, powerful quote it starts out with.

In this galaxy, there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in all of the universe, three million million galaxies like this. And in all of that, and perhaps more, only one of each of us. Don’t destroy the company named Blizzard, bring back 10 mans.

Regardless of the why, we know its been a rough year, and I want to say Thank you game developers for listening to the things we’ve been asking for, and maybe for the first time in a long time, being present on the forums. I hope that holds true today.

Here is the simply way to make an MMO “fun” again!

I don’t want this to be a debate, I’ve taken a poll on Area 52 and it was 74% agreed, I’m sure most realms will have the same outcome or close enough.

Anyways

Bring back 10 man raiding

This has always been the most controversial thing you did as a company (in game) and we have been asking for years to change it back. The truth is

It’s time.

signed
Pitpit, Stormbreed, PFish, Zulato, Snackiii, Capthotpants and Piripil.

I hope this gets read and taken into consideration,

[Toybox]

They never left - they're just not the top tier of content anymore. I don't want 10-man mythic... I remember Cataclysm, & with raiding being less of an overall focus now? It just doesn't seem feasible.

The game is trying to do a lot more now than it was 10 years ago, & while raiding is still a big part of the game, high-end raiding is still incredibly niche. They're not going to allocate extra time to developing fights which work both great on 10m & 20m mythic, so the fights would potentially have to be dumbed down to be suitable for 10m guilds, making them too easy for 20m guilds, or tuned for 20m guilds, making them incredibly awkward for 10m guilds.

[T-34]

Who told you that "Blizzard is giving you what you asked for"?
And nothing stops you from doing 10-man raiding on heroic, which still is far more difficult than anything in FFXIV.

[voxnor]

The last several weeks of our raid we've had 2/2/6. (Which equals 10, in case Math isn't your strong suit).

You can do normal and heroic with ten people.

I'm confused what you want here?

[Blackmist]

It's time for Flex to be added to Mythic as soon as all the world first shit is over.

Frankly, it was the all too common "only 18 people online for raiding" that made us all quit this shit, rather than all the internal Blizzard shit.

[Toybox]

It's time for Flex to be added to Mythic as soon as all the world first shit is over.

Frankly, it was the all too common "only 18 people online for raiding" that made us all quit this shit, rather than all the internal Blizzard shit.

I don't know how that'd work with current boss mechanics. Certain mechanics would have to be reduced in number after a certain point, so as an example, taking 16 players instead of 17 players might be better for cheesing an overlap, even if that 17th player is fantastic. Doesn't seem like mythic to me - it seems cheap.

I certainly sympathise though - my guild died due to lack of recruitment options after Sire died. We'll hopefully make a comeback in 9.2 on a realm with more than 50 people on it, but it's a crap situation overall.

[Kralljin]

Going to take a random guess and assume this thread has a solid chance to devolve into the 10 vs. 25 arguments of the Cata / MoP era.

But disregarding that:
It's not so much that Blizzard can just snap with their fingers and create a functional experience for 10man raiding, at least 10man Mythic raiding (because that is what most people are talking about).

The big elephant in the room of this entire debate is basically that in order to still have a semblance of difficulty that cannot be easily abused by bringing a few select classes, you'd have to homogenize the shit out of the current classes.

I did my fair share of 10man heroic raiding during Cata and MoP and certain mechanics, such as the infamous "soak" mechanics were always a huge issue because having mages and rogues made those super easy, whereas without (enough) of those classes, you had to play those mechanics, which made those encounters far harder.
Having some mechanics target the "right" over the "wrong" person made massives differences.

You'd also have to redesign healers, something like Resto Shaman quite often sucked because it was a healer that heavily relied on Chain Heal and Healing rain, unless you had specific mechanics that required you to stack up, Resto Shaman just sucked.

There's also the factor that dps imbalances become a greater problem, stacking a few OP dps specs in 10man is entirely possible and has a huge impact, in 20man, that's a lot more difficult by the nature of it (also becomes a greater problem because homogenized classes put a much greater emphasis on numerical balance).
Similiarly, a weak dps spec is manageable in 20man, in 10man less so.

Second, it basically spells the longterm death of any larger raidsize, we saw this in Cata / MoP that people gravitated to it, if you want to re introduce 10man, you should be honest enough and say that 20 / 25man has to go altogether, because that's the fate of it anyway without extra incentives.

If some say those are changes they can live with in order to get 10man mythic raiding back, that's your legitimate opinion, but at least see that some people might be opposed to that, it's not like Blizzard can bring back 10man and nothing else is somehow affected by this.

Especially the homogenization part puts me off, to be frank.

[Fartoo]

"Lets keep the thread going to see if we can get Blizzard to give us back what we all want!"

The problem is, we do not all want it. So no, I hope they will not be doing that.

[HASELHOOF93]

You. You want this. It never ceases to amaze me that people that think eVeRyOnE wants this just because they, as a single individual, and their small group of like minded people (sheep) that they socialize with, wants this. Let me go out on a limb here and guess that you are a normal, at top HC, raider. If you cant see the bigger picture I feel sorry for you. @Kralljin above here put its very nicely.

[frogboi10]

There are far too many specs in the game to design proper raid encounters with just 10 players in mind. But hey, at least we got flex.

[Kokolums]

Efficiency whores always ruin stuff like this unless you add prizes for each situation.

[SocialJusticeFuryWarrioir]

This thread on the wow forums has been picking up a lot of stream so I thought I would bring it to everyone's attention. Lets all jump on board, I for one agree 100% 10 man raiding is amazing. Watching Echo and Limit progress on FF in small groups they can arrange and change raiding time with weekly brought me back to 10mans and how incredible it was! Lets keep the thread going to see if we can get Blizzard to give us back what we all want!

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...izzard/1144259

And what a powerful, powerful quote it starts out with.

In this galaxy, there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in all of the universe, three million million galaxies like this. And in all of that, and perhaps more, only one of each of us. Don’t destroy the company named Blizzard, bring back 10 mans.

Regardless of the why, we know its been a rough year, and I want to say Thank you game developers for listening to the things we’ve been asking for, and maybe for the first time in a long time, being present on the forums. I hope that holds true today.

Here is the simply way to make an MMO “fun” again!

I don’t want this to be a debate, I’ve taken a poll on Area 52 and it was 74% agreed, I’m sure most realms will have the same outcome or close enough.

Anyways

Bring back 10 man raiding

This has always been the most controversial thing you did as a company (in game) and we have been asking for years to change it back. The truth is

It’s time.

signed
Pitpit, Stormbreed, PFish, Zulato, Snackiii, Capthotpants and Piripil.

I hope this gets read and taken into consideration,

First, you need to find a reason why 10-man/woman/manwoman rading is woke, and then they will be FORCED to add it. Good luck :P

[Goat7]

This thread on the wow forums has been picking up a lot of stream so I thought I would bring it to everyone's attention. Lets all jump on board, I for one agree 100% 10 man raiding is amazing. Watching Echo and Limit progress on FF in small groups they can arrange and change raiding time with weekly brought me back to 10mans and how incredible it was! Lets keep the thread going to see if we can get Blizzard to give us back what we all want!

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...izzard/1144259

And what a powerful, powerful quote it starts out with.

In this galaxy, there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in all of the universe, three million million galaxies like this. And in all of that, and perhaps more, only one of each of us. Don’t destroy the company named Blizzard, bring back 10 mans.

Regardless of the why, we know its been a rough year, and I want to say Thank you game developers for listening to the things we’ve been asking for, and maybe for the first time in a long time, being present on the forums. I hope that holds true today.

Here is the simply way to make an MMO “fun” again!

I don’t want this to be a debate, I’ve taken a poll on Area 52 and it was 74% agreed, I’m sure most realms will have the same outcome or close enough.

Anyways

Bring back 10 man raiding

This has always been the most controversial thing you did as a company (in game) and we have been asking for years to change it back. The truth is

It’s time.

signed
Pitpit, Stormbreed, PFish, Zulato, Snackiii, Capthotpants and Piripil.

I hope this gets read and taken into consideration,

Blizzard is giving us what we ask for? lol sure, if u mean we wanted the better looking gear to come from the in game store.

Let's how bout we take a HUGE step back before we go pressing for 10 man raiding and just get the game to not be complete time gated dog shit first? imo

[Maell]

You think you want but you don't.

10 man mythic is not reasonable with the way the game works and with how the specs are balanced. Just because another game does 8 man raiding well does not mean WoW would do it well.

Besides the fact that here are too many specs (and classes) in wow for 10man, if you're going for mythic and want a decently optimized setup you would have 7 slots locked (6 buffs + warlock) which leaves 3 slots open and that is not good.

If you want to raid with 10man you can, just not mythic.

[ExtremelyCrusty]

Bring 10 man and 25 man back. If not 25 man, make 10 man viable.

[Utrrabbit]

This thread on the wow forums has been picking up a lot of stream so I thought I would bring it to everyone's attention. Lets all jump on board, I for one agree 100% 10 man raiding is amazing. Watching Echo and Limit progress on FF in small groups they can arrange and change raiding time with weekly brought me back to 10mans and how incredible it was! Lets keep the thread going to see if we can get Blizzard to give us back what we all want!

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...izzard/1144259

And what a powerful, powerful quote it starts out with.

In this galaxy, there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in all of the universe, three million million galaxies like this. And in all of that, and perhaps more, only one of each of us. Don’t destroy the company named Blizzard, bring back 10 mans.

Regardless of the why, we know its been a rough year, and I want to say Thank you game developers for listening to the things we’ve been asking for, and maybe for the first time in a long time, being present on the forums. I hope that holds true today.

Here is the simply way to make an MMO “fun” again!

I don’t want this to be a debate, I’ve taken a poll on Area 52 and it was 74% agreed, I’m sure most realms will have the same outcome or close enough.

Anyways

Bring back 10 man raiding

This has always been the most controversial thing you did as a company (in game) and we have been asking for years to change it back. The truth is

It’s time.

signed
Pitpit, Stormbreed, PFish, Zulato, Snackiii, Capthotpants and Piripil.

I hope this gets read and taken into consideration,

Literally no one has ever asked for 10man back. Unless you are talking about the bad players who can not finish normal.

- - - Updated - - -

You think you want but you don't.

10 man mythic is not reasonable with the way the game works and with how the specs are balanced. Just because another game does 8 man raiding well does not mean WoW would do it well.

Besides the fact that here are too many specs (and classes) in wow for 10man, if you're going for mythic and want a decently optimized setup you would have 7 slots locked (6 buffs + warlock) which leaves 3 slots open and that is not good.

If you want to raid with 10man you can, just not mythic.

The ONLY reason FF14 can get away with 8 player raids is because it's class/jobs are so blantently easy to play with no actually interesting mechanics in them that they can get away with it

WoW has 36 different specs. If it was dropped to 10man. That is around 2/3 of all specs not being brought to raid. The top 10 would always be brought no matter what.

People who want 10man are just delusional.

[Stormbreed]

"Lets keep the thread going to see if we can get Blizzard to give us back what we all want!"

The problem is, we do not all want it. So no, I hope they will not be doing that.

Every poll, every single one, on here and everywhere else proves you wrong. Majority rules

- - - Updated - - -

Literally no one has ever asked for 10man back. Unless you are talking about the bad players who can not finish normal.

- - - Updated - - -



The ONLY reason FF14 can get away with 8 player raids is because it's class/jobs are so blantently easy to play with no actually interesting mechanics in them that they can get away with it

WoW has 36 different specs. If it was dropped to 10man. That is around 2/3 of all specs not being brought to raid. The top 10 would always be brought no matter what.

People who want 10man are just delusional.

Actually its asked for all the time, and Max from Limit has recently said he wished it were an option because it would force them to drop the insane requirement of having x y z class only because they bring a specific buff.

[Maell]

Actually its asked for all the time, and Max from Limit has recently said he wished it were an option because it would force them to drop the insane requirement of having x y z class only because they bring a specific buff.

That is a class design problem not a raid design problem.

[Alroxas]

Bring 10 man and 25 man back. If not 25 man, make 10 man viable.

By that argument... bring back 40-person raids back. /s

[DechCJC]

I can't express how much I disagree with the statement "This has always been the most controversial thing you did as a company (in game)".

I don't think this is even remotely close to a prime concern amongst the playerbase.

I prefer 20 man mythic raiding.