Doing progress as ARCANE

[Specialka]

Ilevel parses are pretty much meaningless, and the point still stands. Your parses are comparing you to other Arcane mages, and topping DPS in your raid just means other people are playing worse than you, not that Arcane is in a good spot.

Arcane can get shit done if you put enough effort into it. Sorry if I did not respec like all those fotm sheep, especially to a spec that is as simple as Fire, though Frost is even simplier to play.

[Sámsa]

I mean you guys bring the the int buff and that’s why their are mages brought to the raid atm.

I think each spec can buff int so it does indeed not matter which spec you play

[Cosmic Janitor]

I mean you guys bring the the int buff and that’s why their are mages brought to the raid atm.

I think each spec can buff int so it does indeed not matter which spec you play

A major part of the playerbase is still brought to bring dps, because they aren't in the world 1st competion and it's all their raid leaders have to work with on their backwater low pop realms. You can still try to not drag down your team, though admittedly, my mage (who only raides as an alt with the F&F/alt raid) is already pissing away potential by being the wrong covenant and probably spec as well . Wouldn't raid as 2h frost dk atm though..

[Specialka]

I mean you guys bring the the int buff and that’s why their are mages brought to the raid atm.

I think each spec can buff int so it does indeed not matter which spec you play

Maybe we should only make a raid with Feral/boomkin/spriest/UH DK and MM hunter then ?

[ldev]

Arcane can get shit done if you put enough effort into it. Sorry if I did not respec like all those fotm sheep, especially to a spec that is as simple as Fire, though Frost is even simplier to play.

God your ignorance is special indeed.

How stupid does one have to be to think that "I'm doing top dps in MY guild" argument has any worth whatsoever?

[Specialka]

God your ignorance is special indeed.

Looks like someone has run out of argument even before starting to debate.

[ldev]

Looks like someone has run out of argument even before starting to debate.

You started your spam with "I'm doing top dps in MY guild". That is not an argument. Looks like someone never had an argument ever, and now expects actual arguments to random bullshit, whoa.

[Specialka]

You started your spam with "I'm doing top dps in MY guild". That is not an argument. Looks like someone never had an argument ever, and now expects actual arguments to random bullshit, whoa.

Yes, I am doing fine in my raid, but I also doing fine in m+ with random pugs. Most people plays at a level where playing the fotm spec does not matter, unless it is totally broken.

[erifwodahs]

Still have to wait for someone to beat me in m+ in overall damage.

In raid, my guild is not a top guild or whatever so I am top dps still as arcane.

I mean... this does not prove anything and indicates only few things, either you outgear everyone by a lot, others don't know how to play or they play worse specs than arcane. Whole raid of them? Yea, don't think so.

I mean you can be a good player, but if your class potential is 7 and lets say hunters are 10, you will have to perform 100% while hunter can only use 70% of the potential to do the same.

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Yes, I am doing fine in my raid, but I also doing fine in m+ with random pugs. Most people plays at a level where playing the fotm spec does not matter, unless it is totally broken.

This is correct. Fotm does not really matter in normal content. You could push over 20s very easy (for a decent player) in BfA as a frost mage even tho fire was way better.

[Specialka]

I mean... this does not prove anything and indicates only few things, either you outgear everyone by a lot, others don't know how to play or they play worse specs than arcane. Whole raid of them? Yea, don't think so.

I mean you can be a good player, but if your class potential is 7 and lets say hunters are 10, you will have to perform 100% while hunter can only use 70% of the potential to do the same.

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This is correct. Fotm does not really matter in normal content. You could push over 20s very easy (for a decent player) in BfA as a frost mage even tho fire was way better.

Obviously but most players, if I was to use your metric, perform around 4 or 5 "when" playing the fotm spec.

[erifwodahs]

Obviously but most players, if I was to use your metric, perform around 4 or 5 "when" playing the fotm spec.

Might be the case, but again, it only tells more about the players. You can outdps some dps players with tank paladin. Does not mean it's a good choice for a DPS
And unfortunately pugs only care about meta, but there is a good reason for that - because a arcane mage performing shit will do less dmg than a fire mage performing shit.
In a group of friends anything goes until you hit the limit where your class is limiting progress and very few people do that content.

[Sámsa]

Maybe we should only make a raid with Feral/boomkin/spriest/UH DK and MM hunter then ?

Yes absolutely! And 1 Mage for int

[D3athsting]

Yes absolutely! And 1 Mage for int

You forget TW

[spaace]

arcane is boring with the mastery change. you don't really need to manage mana anymore... evocation up? cool burn your mana.. not up? use barrage once and a while.

blast, missile, barrage, repeat. snore.

fire you have to put effort into things... and frost is just arcane with better aoe


yes, i know there is a talent but it's garbage compared to the AP boost.

[Xires]

Still have to wait for someone to beat me in m+ in overall damage.

In raid, my guild is not a top guild or whatever so I am top dps still as arcane.

If you are a Mage and doing top damage...that's because the rest of your raid is getting sub par parses and they need to improve.

[Manjachka]

Mages are bottom tier in general and given they have been skipped over in the latest tuning either reroll or deal with being subpar in damage.

[Tikishock]

I honestly find Fire to be a harder spec than Arcane. I don't like it, I suck at it, and I feel like if I mess up the combustion phase then I'm basically boned.

At least for Arcane I feel it's more fun just because it seems more unique and mana actually matters with it. I just wish it was a bit more mobile and there was a damage increase to the spec that is obviously needed.

[Derzorvadur]

Looks like someone has run out of argument even before starting to debate.

1. Something being more difficult is subjective. I would argue that Fire's nuance in adjusting each combustion window with the proper sequence of spells to maximize the damage output is much more difficult than anything Arcane does mechanically. Most of Arcane's " difficulty " is learning boss fights well enough so that you can maximize your damage without having to move a lot due to how immobile Arcane is.

2. To fully explain why Fire is better than Arcane on bosses is two-fold. Properly geared vs properly geared, Fire's burst window is closer to every minute, which outpaces Arcane's. To top it off, Arcane requires to stand still and cast/channel their spells while Fire's fully mobile the whole window while within their rune aura. Secondly, during execution, they are even more mobile and can much more reliably lower their combustion cooldown to that 1-minute mark, effectively doubling their burst window versus Arcane.

3. In m+ things get more complex and context here is absolutely everything. Are you doing m0's/lower m+ or are you doing 14's and higher? In lower keys arcane's on-demand burst rotation with AE spam and Barrage with the Barrage leggo makes them nuke aoe packs that only live for a couple of seconds. In 14's where trash lives longer Fire's damage will outpace Arcane if there are 5-6 or more targets due to uncapped AoE damage. Also, their burst windows are much shorter if played properly.

4. Lastly. Fire can utilize the Pyretic Incantation legendary in every form of content for much more reliable damage output while Arcane and Frost have to swap being two legendary items that are completely useless in the other situation.

If you are someone that has the muscle memory to maximize Fire's combustion windows in every content above lower level m+/normal mode raiding where you can utilize its full kit, then you will see higher output than anyone playing Arcane or Frost in every situation other than sustained 2-3 target cleave. And I say all this as someone who plays Frost and Arcane because I don't care for Fire.

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Fire is more mechanically difficult because it is all about maximizing the spells you cast within your combustion window for your damage. If you mess it up it is super punishing. Arcane has similar issues but the burst windows aren't as frequent and much harder to mess up mechanically. It's all hindered on your ability to find time to stand still long enough to do your damage. That's why progressing on Arcane has been so challenging. I personally feel like Arcane would need a minor, if not a full on, rework to it's base toolkit in order to alleviate that major weakness before it ever gets a real chance to shine outside of farm content.

[Specialka]

1. Something being more difficult is subjective. I would argue that Fire's nuance in adjusting each combustion window with the proper sequence of spells to maximize the damage output is much more difficult than anything Arcane does mechanically. Most of Arcane's " difficulty " is learning boss fights well enough so that you can maximize your damage without having to move a lot due to how immobile Arcane is.

2. To fully explain why Fire is better than Arcane on bosses is two-fold. Properly geared vs properly geared, Fire's burst window is closer to every minute, which outpaces Arcane's. To top it off, Arcane requires to stand still and cast/channel their spells while Fire's fully mobile the whole window while within their rune aura. Secondly, during execution, they are even more mobile and can much more reliably lower their combustion cooldown to that 1-minute mark, effectively doubling their burst window versus Arcane.

3. In m+ things get more complex and context here is absolutely everything. Are you doing m0's/lower m+ or are you doing 14's and higher? In lower keys arcane's on-demand burst rotation with AE spam and Barrage with the Barrage leggo makes them nuke aoe packs that only live for a couple of seconds. In 14's where trash lives longer Fire's damage will outpace Arcane if there are 5-6 or more targets due to uncapped AoE damage. Also, their burst windows are much shorter if played properly.

4. Lastly. Fire can utilize the Pyretic Incantation legendary in every form of content for much more reliable damage output while Arcane and Frost have to swap being two legendary items that are completely useless in the other situation.

If you are someone that has the muscle memory to maximize Fire's combustion windows in every content above lower level m+/normal mode raiding where you can utilize its full kit, then you will see higher output than anyone playing Arcane or Frost in every situation other than sustained 2-3 target cleave. And I say all this as someone who plays Frost and Arcane because I don't care for Fire.

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Fire is more mechanically difficult because it is all about maximizing the spells you cast within your combustion window for your damage. If you mess it up it is super punishing. Arcane has similar issues but the burst windows aren't as frequent and much harder to mess up mechanically. It's all hindered on your ability to find time to stand still long enough to do your damage. That's why progressing on Arcane has been so challenging. I personally feel like Arcane would need a minor, if not a full on, rework to it's base toolkit in order to alleviate that major weakness before it ever gets a real chance to shine outside of farm content.

If you find just inputing a spell sequence (that can be macroed, mind you, though it does not work as good as it was a human doing it) hard... I could grant you it can be 'harder" than Arcane spell sequence but it stops there. Everything else, fire has it easier, far easier.

In m+, Arcane has to stand in melee or near melee range for aoe, so you have to care about retaking aggro which happens when you are bursting, or putting range mecanics among melees or being mindful or melee mecanics. And nope, fire is less pushing as Arcane. Your burst phase is shorter and you can move while you are bursting. You do not need to fish, just bank FB charges. So much skill needed.

In the end, everyone is entitle to its opinion.

[Lazy Gecko]

I've been having a particularly good time with the affixes this week and how prideful interacts with arcane in particular. It seems like the mana regen buff scales really, really well with how the class mechanics work and makes your single target DPS shoot through the roof which is excellent for bosses.