Does the Kyrian covenant story make them any less horrendous?

[Zig Zug]

but I'm not sure I can bring myself to actually want to suffer listening to their NPCs just offending me every day.

Oh my. Lot to unpack.

But, don't worry we see your signal.

[Soon-TM]

It’s all a choice, if anyone of you paid attention there were Kyrians who just left or went back to start the process over by choice.

Again if you pay attention you would see that every soul their has the choice to store all their memories on magical scrolls.

Also the process for ascension takes a very long time. Longer then a human life span for sure. So they have a long ass time to say I’m good I don’t need these memories anymore. I will be moving on.

If your HD is wiped out clean, it matters little if there are cloud based backups, especially if they are rendered inaccessible to you. Moreso when you would just have forgotten about having made those backups anyway.

[TigTone]

If your HD is wiped out clean, it matters little if there are cloud based backups, especially if they are rendered inaccessible to you. Moreso when you would just have forgotten about having made those backups anyway.

Memories made in bastion are not erased. All they have stated to do is erase memories from their past life.

Beside the souls in bastion are people who care more about being just then their personal memories or else they would have never been sent their.

The reason for the mess in Bastion is the Anima drought (starvation is bad for health) and corruption caused by the jailers Mawsworn.

[Orange Joe]

People need to stop treating Terminator as a documentary. An AI would likely far more rational than a human, and most violence isn't terribly rational behaviour.

On the other hand, anybody going against "enslaving" Stewards doesn't understand Stewards. These creatures literally exist to serve and actually need to be ordered to take a vacation for their own wellbeing. Which they will spend pining for when they get to return to work.

Dredgers are a bit more palatable since they spent most of their time complaining about anything and everything, just like most players.

You think rational means the same thing for everyone?

[huth]

You think rational means the same thing for everyone?

It should. Naturally, some people don't understand what it means.

[Voidism]

If they pick people because they are honorable and just, then why the need for a memory wipe? In fact, wouldn't wiping memories _remove_ these traits?

[bagina]

If they pick people because they are honorable and just, then why the need for a memory wipe? In fact, wouldn't wiping memories _remove_ these traits?

I know right? It's all about training to become worthy and all that jazz, but in the end it's the mind wipe for you. So are you actually worthy, or not? Do you actually have the willpower to carry out the task? Do the Kyrians believe you can do it or do they just need an obedient machine. Like, even normal mortals with their short livespans have the restraint to judge criminals unbiasedly in courts, you telling me beings with eons of training can't? Tsk tsk. Restraining yourself and not straying from your duty despite feeling disdain for the criminal you're carrying, that's the real victory and what being noble is about. That's how you should know a Kyrian is the real deal.

It's hilarious how the apologists instantly assume that every soul would seek revenge on those who wronged them. So you admit that no soul is inherently suitable for the task. You're actually making a case against the Kyrians. If you have to wipe their memories it means they aren't fit for the job.

[jackofwind]

Sounds like brainwashing to me. Memories help make who you are.

Yeah okay Illidan.

[Jessicka]

I know right? It's all about training to become worthy and all that jazz, but in the end it's the mind wipe for you. So are you actually worthy, or not? Do you actually have the willpower to carry out the task? Do the Kyrians believe you can do it or do they just need an obedient machine. Like, even normal mortals with their short livespans have the restraint to judge criminals unbiasedly in courts, you telling me beings with eons of training can't? Tsk tsk. It's hilarious how the apologists instantly assume that every soul would seek revenge on those who wronged them. You're actually making a case against the Kyrians. If you have to wipe their memories it means they aren't fit for the job.

Moreover they defend the process because it takes so long, by which point anyone who directly wronged them is probably long dead anyway.

And they keep their Bastion memories; they see what the people they pick up are up to, and they can develop judgements based on those experiences too.

It’s nothing to do with removing bias so much as it is consolidating its own identity as a faction, and unifying the righteousness in its purpose... which surprise surprise is where it went spectacularly wrong.

[Orange Joe]

It should. Naturally, some people don't understand what it means.

Just an example.

Some people think Trump is a rational choice as president.
Some people think Biden is a rational choice for president.

What is rational to 1 person isn't going to be for another. Add in a being that doesn't have the same concerns to life as we do. Their rational would be completly different to ours.

[Rendark]

Yeah okay Illidan.

I never liked Illidan and legions story but the only part i did like was Illidan blowing up the glowing bitch.

[bagina]

Moreover they defend the process because it takes so long, by which point anyone who directly wronged them is probably long dead anyway.

And they keep their Bastion memories; they see what the people they pick up are up to, and they can develop judgements based on those experiences too.

It’s nothing to do with removing bias so much as it is consolidating its own identity as a faction, and unifying the righteousness in its purpose... which surprise surprise is where it went spectacularly wrong.

Exactly, like they've only ever been Kyrians and nothing else.

Like, I don't care how much you want it, I'm not gonna help you commit suicide. And for the record, I'm not offended that Bastion exists. It's not some political correctness thing. I'm side-eyeing the fact that you'd expect me to take their side or be happy for them. At this point they're the lesser evil at best. There's no sense of genuine accomplishment in helping them.

[Soon-TM]

Yeah okay Illidan.

Illidank may have been as much as an edgelord as you want, but even so, he was right in that regard.

- - - Updated - - -

I never liked Illidan and legions story but the only part i did like was Illidan blowing up the glowing bitch.

Yeah, that's the sole reason I more or less gave that prick a pass.

[jackofwind]

Illidank may have been as much as an edgelord as you want, but even so, he was right in that regard.

I think he was being an edgy 14 year old. Letting any singular thing define you is stupid.

I am my ability to make macaroni and cheese!

[bledgor]

Playing through a 2nd time,I it funny how petulant and childish I find all of the malsworn actions, they are just whiny emo children in the way they act. Also at every step you as the Kyrain have to make the steps, you aren't forced, you are strong armed, unlike the malsworn who you either serve or die as they say. Pretty fun for a group founded on being free to remember they are forcing everyone to join them or die, guess only they get to make choices.

Also the reason you have a mind wipe isn't because those chosen to go to Kyrian is because while they might be the type to self-sacrifice, they still have bias, still have a mortal perspective, something you need to shed to now function in the mostly immortal after life. To avoid future Arthas/Uther situations, because they aren't suppose to be judge jury and executioner, they are supposed to be impartial ferrymen/women.

[Xilurm]

It's an intelligence. It will have to be taught. If you want to be the one to teach it that it is meant to violently overthrow it, that's your issue.

You're already approaching it the wrong way. What makes you think that it will have to be controlled? You're letting your preconceptions colour your actions about something you're completely clueless about... which just shows how reasonable the Kyrian approach is.


You know the most similar thing to AIs we currently have? Children. Would you say that we "have to control them"?

Oh no I agree with the Kyrian thing. I was talking off-topic about the A.I think though. It isn't the same as children though. It doesn't have emotions and it can't be taught to have emotions. It will have to be programmed to obey humans. And even that is tricky.

[Nynax]

I think he was being an edgy 14 year old. Letting any singular thing define you is stupid.

I am my ability to make macaroni and cheese!

Dude don't joke. I wager you could garner a real following making, and selling, the best fucking mac and cheese. Some people don't mess around with how much they love that shit, lol.

[Xilurm]

I know right? It's all about training to become worthy and all that jazz, but in the end it's the mind wipe for you. So are you actually worthy, or not? Do you actually have the willpower to carry out the task? Do the Kyrians believe you can do it or do they just need an obedient machine. Like, even normal mortals with their short livespans have the restraint to judge criminals unbiasedly in courts, you telling me beings with eons of training can't? Tsk tsk. Restraining yourself and not straying from your duty despite feeling disdain for the criminal you're carrying, that's the real victory and what being noble is about. That's how you should know a Kyrian is the real deal.

It's hilarious how the apologists instantly assume that every soul would seek revenge on those who wronged them. So you admit that no soul is inherently suitable for the task. You're actually making a case against the Kyrians. If you have to wipe their memories it means they aren't fit for the job.

Well let's see. A random soldier in Theramore who fought with honor his entire life and tried to uphold the good dies because Garrosh decided to drop a mana bomb that killed him and his entire family.

He becomes a Kyrian, Garrosh dies and he takes his soul, but he remembers what he did. Drops him straight into the Maw instead of Revendreth.

Why am I even giving an example like this when we have Uther though?

And how is that a case against the Kyrians. They are all past mortal souls, theres no one else that does their job. I imagine the only one whos not a robot thing like the stewards and the guards and is native to Bastion is Kyriela.

[Nynax]

Not sure what point you are trying to make? I know all that hogwash.

As for endless: Yeah yeah, countless ones. Sure. If I had to guess their "infinite" being the 4 year old's concept of infinite, meaning any number bigger than 3. Here is the thing, from what we've seen the SL can't support a true infinite universe. That starts with THE people ferrying souls being rather finite to begin with and ends with the logistics of the shadowlands all hinging on the bit of anima that mortal souls drag in the door. It's a nice concept for the story and gives the author alot of room, but if you think i through you run into problems quickly. While I'm sure the patches will add realms with surprising relevance - only to us of course - out the infinite number, everything down to Oribos is conveniently build to support exactly those 4. Blizzard didn't even bother to put in a few more portals around Oribos, when they should have littered the skybox with those . There is also something to be said about Ardenweald being the odd one out and practically being a waste of anima on the system, but that would lead too far.

Anyway, rant aside, the concept of the anima economy of the shadowlands makes it highly unlikely that the other realms are all sunshine and rainbows either and again the concept of absolute death exists in the shadowlands. That fact alone excludes concepts of paradise other than walled gardens that require someone to oversee them, which in turn begs the question why someone would exert that much effort for a couple of souls, the big 4 certainly have a utalitarian approach to it and make it work because of it.

Your point about the anima economy raises another question for me, as well. If souls can be literally consumed as energy and not every soul is reborn...then how does that fit in the larger Warcraft cosmos? Where do new souls even come from? Clearly the Shadowlands doesn't cycle through them fast enough to account for its need...I'm not even sure souls are reborn outside of Ardenweald. So wtf is a soul? Does it blossom into being at the creation of a sentient life? Some natural phenomenon of the cosmic forces of Light or Void when mixed with the others? Do Void Lords, Naaru, and these "First Ones" have souls or are they something else?

[Nerovar]

He thinks the Kyrian are aware of the state of the Arbiter, which at least prior to our arrival in Bastion, they almost certainly are not. At least the non Maw/Forsworn ones.

There's zero reason to believe they weren't aware prior to the arrival of the player character. They also keep chucking them into the Maw even after the player arrives and quests there. They simply don't care about it because they think it's not their job to question it.